Barbarian paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arvagor
01-14-07, 06:57 PM Trying to find a way to get a barbarian-type into Holy Liberator.

PC would be a worshipper of Vatun for roleplaying reasons (entire group he would adventure with is Vatunian), and the group does not yet have a paladin-like PC. I looked at the "paladin of freedom" in Unearthed Arcana for comparison, and it seems Holy Liberator was designed to fill that niche in the "official" rules. The biggest problem seems to be that to get him in to HL as quickly as possible (6th level, after he fulfills the BAB +5 requirement), would require some illogical dip into swashbuckler, the only class that has both Diplomacy and Sense Motive as class skills with full BAB (I know, so does paladin, but starting there and becoming a barbarian is more illogical than taking the swashbuckler level, and makes absolutely no sense character-wise, since he starts out as a Frost/Ice/Snow Barbarian regardless).

Anyone else tried to duplicate the UA paladin of freedom without going Holy Liberator?
Mommy was an Orc
01-14-07, 07:24 PM Why not pick up a level or 3 of Rogue? Yes, that stops you from entering at 6th, but that opens up Staggering Strike at 9th. That also makes both of the prereqs class skills. Diplomacy can't be that easy either...
Mommy was an Orc
01-14-07, 07:27 PM Or for that matter, levels in Marshal - gives you a lot of charisma synergy, then. Marshal 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Holy Liberator 9
jstorrie
01-15-07, 02:49 AM Marshal is a very good choice because it means two splatbook feats at CL3:

Human
1 Barbarian Skill Focus Diplomacy, Iron Will
2 Fighter Power Attack
3 Marshal Extra Rage, Reckless Rage
4 Marshal
5 Marshal
6 Outcast Champion Improved Bull Rush
7 Fighter Shock Trooper
8 Outcast Champion
9 Outcast Champion
10 Holy Liberator
...&c.
Arvagor
01-15-07, 07:18 AM Humans cannot take levels in Outcast Champion...

And I am loathe to take levels in Marshal... ;)
Mommy was an Orc
01-15-07, 10:29 AM And I am loathe to take levels in Marshal... ;)

But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;)
_m_
01-15-07, 05:17 PM But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;)

fear leads to anger
anger leads to hate
hate leads to marshal...
marshal leads back to hate again... its a kind of circular thing.
clannagh
01-15-07, 06:37 PM fear leads to anger
anger leads to hate
hate leads to marshal...
marshal leads back to hate again... its a kind of circular thing.

don't you mean marshal leads to fear otherwise the circle is sorta lopsided
Arvagor
01-15-07, 06:42 PM But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;)

Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif

(OTOH, I know that _m_ and I both have PCs that are already on the Dark side -- just not that dark side! ;) )
_m_
01-15-07, 06:58 PM Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif

(OTOH, I know that _m_ and I both have PCs that are already on the Dark side -- just not that dark side! ;) )

i prefer to think the dark side is kind of... allied with our pc's... kind of like a pet...

ok fine, im a corupted shadow b!tch. sue me.
Mommy was an Orc
01-15-07, 07:14 PM Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif

It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;)
_m_
01-15-07, 07:22 PM It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;)

dont do it luke! stay with me on the... um.... darkER side?

hmmm. now i see why they had a dark and a light side... 2 dark sides is just confusing.
Arvagor
01-15-07, 07:30 PM It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;)
As if taking Marshal for the class skills was any different? My point was that Swashbuckler is no better of an option, and not a choice I planned on taking... At this point, he will likely be a cleric/warpriest, taking the warpriest requirements cross-class, who simply calls himself a paladin of Vatun (that or go straight cleric -- the Strength domain's granted power actually works a little bit better than the paladin's smite evil, IMO, esp. getting into level 10+)
jstorrie
01-15-07, 10:07 PM Hah! Human Outcast Champion! My morning coffee must have been wearing off.

But seriously, you can do that build just fine with a half-elf - drop the late fighter level, juggle Iron Will up to CL6, and wait a little longer for Shock Trooper. What's so wrong with being a holy-liberating barbaric Vatunian marshal? You'd be a commanding, miserable anarchist!
Arvagor
01-16-07, 01:36 AM Here's the current plan for him (copied from an email to
someone else)... Sure it's probably not optimal, but that
wasn't the goal...
#####
Chaotic Good Suel Human (Ice Barbarian)
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10
1 Clr (Strength, Cold) Power Attack, Combat Casting (WrP
requirement) 2 Clr
3 Clr Divine Spell Power
4 Clr
5 Clr
6 Clr Weapon Focus (battleaxe)
7 Clr
8 WrP
9 WrP Practiced Spellcaster
10 WrP
11 WrP
12 WrP Extra Turning
13 WrP
14 WrP
15 Clr Domain Spontaneity (Glory or Strength?)

(WrP = warpriest)
Bump Wisdom at 4th, 8th, and 12th (but see below)

If character retirement remains at level 16, then the 8th
level of warpriest really doesn't do anything -- switching
back to Clr 8 gives the same benefits of WrP 8, but also
bumps the Will save and will bump the Strength domain
ability by another point.
I think there is still enough "martialness" in the class
that he could be considered a Vatunian paladin :), while
still having respectable spellcasting as well; he won't
gain access to his 6th level spells until 15th level (when
he hits "11th" level in his casting class), but he'll have
BAB +13 also... WrP also continues to advance his turning
ability, and Glory domain doesn't hurt, although with his
low Charisma, I don't know that I'd consider him a turning
cleric.
I could knock his starting Wisdom down to 14 and put those
other two points in Cha -- not the biggest help to turning,
I know, and there's only one WrP ability that needs any
help from Cha (the Fear Aura (Su) at 5th level). Perhaps
since he technically needs a Wisdom of 16 at 15th level
only (because he won't be casting 6th level spells before
then), I could make his starting Str 15 instead, put one
bump (at 4th?) in Str, and the other two in Wis at 8th and
12th?
I'm also a little undecided on the last two feats. Extra
Turning will help me use Divine Spell Power a lot more, as
I don't think I'm going to be turning undead 7x/day on a
regular basis. and I could swap Practiced Spellcaster and
Extra Turning, and/or possibly take Sacred Healing at 15th
instead?
_m_
01-16-07, 01:49 AM I'm also a little undecided on the last two feats. Extra Turning will help me use Divine Spell Power a lot more, as I don't think I'm going to be turning undead 7x/day on a regular basis. and I could swap Practiced Spellcaster and Extra Turning, and/or possibly take Sacred Healing at 15th instead?

wait till the next lgcs hits. see if ds and dmm are still in or not, before you build a cleric guy.
Arvagor
01-16-07, 07:43 AM wait till the next lgcs hits. see if ds and dmm are still in or not, before you build a cleric guy.Well seeing as he's not going to be getting to 3rd level any time soon, I don't think I have to worry about it too much ;)

And take a look again -- no DMM cheese on this guy, just the DSP, something I'm not particularly attached to if it goes away...
Arvagor
01-16-07, 09:59 AM Yeah, so he'll need a level of barbarian in there, ostensibly for flavor, but also so he is proficient with that battleaxe ;)

Damn you, HeroForge, for letting me build all 15 levels at once!
LGMoses
01-16-07, 02:30 PM Me Thok. Me smite u in name of Heironeous *smite* Hooray Thok win day for big shiny paladin god. Thok do good.
_m_
01-16-07, 06:19 PM Yeah, so he'll need a level of barbarian in there, ostensibly for flavor, but also so he is proficient with that battleaxe ;)

Damn you, HeroForge, for letting me build all 15 levels at once!

does anyone know if hero forge has shadowcaster in it yet? my main is so damn complicated that i need to use it, but the last version didnt have tome of shadow, so i was out in the cold.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arvagor 01-14-07, 06:57 PM	Trying to find a way to get a barbarian-type into Holy Liberator. PC would be a worshipper of Vatun for roleplaying reasons (entire group he would adventure with is Vatunian), and the group does not yet have a paladin-like PC. I looked at the "paladin of freedom" in Unearthed Arcana for comparison, and it seems Holy Liberator was designed to fill that niche in the "official" rules. The biggest problem seems to be that to get him in to HL as quickly as possible (6th level, after he fulfills the BAB +5 requirement), would require some illogical dip into swashbuckler, the only class that has both Diplomacy and Sense Motive as class skills with full BAB (I know, so does paladin, but starting there and becoming a barbarian is more illogical than taking the swashbuckler level, and makes absolutely no sense character-wise, since he starts out as a Frost/Ice/Snow Barbarian regardless). Anyone else tried to duplicate the UA paladin of freedom without going Holy Liberator?
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 07:24 PM	Why not pick up a level or 3 of Rogue? Yes, that stops you from entering at 6th, but that opens up Staggering Strike at 9th. That also makes both of the prereqs class skills. Diplomacy can't be that easy either...
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 07:27 PM	Or for that matter, levels in Marshal - gives you a lot of charisma synergy, then. Marshal 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Holy Liberator 9
jstorrie 01-15-07, 02:49 AM	Marshal is a very good choice because it means two splatbook feats at CL3: Human 1 Barbarian Skill Focus Diplomacy, Iron Will 2 Fighter Power Attack 3 Marshal Extra Rage, Reckless Rage 4 Marshal 5 Marshal 6 Outcast Champion Improved Bull Rush 7 Fighter Shock Trooper 8 Outcast Champion 9 Outcast Champion 10 Holy Liberator ...&c.
Arvagor 01-15-07, 07:18 AM	Humans cannot take levels in Outcast Champion... And I am loathe to take levels in Marshal... ;)
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 10:29 AM	And I am loathe to take levels in Marshal... ;) But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;)
_m_ 01-15-07, 05:17 PM	But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;) fear leads to anger anger leads to hate hate leads to marshal... marshal leads back to hate again... its a kind of circular thing.
clannagh 01-15-07, 06:37 PM	fear leads to anger anger leads to hate hate leads to marshal... marshal leads back to hate again... its a kind of circular thing. don't you mean marshal leads to fear otherwise the circle is sorta lopsided
Arvagor 01-15-07, 06:42 PM	But it makes sense character-wise...you're not doing it for the brokenness, you have roleplaying reasons for this. Everyone will believe those were your reasons. Come over to the dark side, Arvagor... ;) Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif (OTOH, I know that _m_ and I both have PCs that are already on the Dark side -- just not that dark side! ;) )
_m_ 01-15-07, 06:58 PM	Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif (OTOH, I know that _m_ and I both have PCs that are already on the Dark side -- just not that dark side! ;) ) i prefer to think the dark side is kind of... allied with our pc's... kind of like a pet... ok fine, im a corupted shadow b!tch. sue me.
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 07:14 PM	Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Mommy was an Orc.:emp: I am a non-Marshal, like my PCs before me.http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/emprs_palpatine/smilies/wave3/lukeskywalker.gif It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;)
_m_ 01-15-07, 07:22 PM	It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;) dont do it luke! stay with me on the... um.... darkER side? hmmm. now i see why they had a dark and a light side... 2 dark sides is just confusing.
Arvagor 01-15-07, 07:30 PM	It is okay. Go ahead and be a rollplayer who takes Swashbuckler for the class skills. A real roleplayer wouldn't have a problem taking levels in Marshal to make his character work. Listen to your father, Luke ;) As if taking Marshal for the class skills was any different? My point was that Swashbuckler is no better of an option, and not a choice I planned on taking... At this point, he will likely be a cleric/warpriest, taking the warpriest requirements cross-class, who simply calls himself a paladin of Vatun (that or go straight cleric -- the Strength domain's granted power actually works a little bit better than the paladin's smite evil, IMO, esp. getting into level 10+)
jstorrie 01-15-07, 10:07 PM	Hah! Human Outcast Champion! My morning coffee must have been wearing off. But seriously, you can do that build just fine with a half-elf - drop the late fighter level, juggle Iron Will up to CL6, and wait a little longer for Shock Trooper. What's so wrong with being a holy-liberating barbaric Vatunian marshal? You'd be a commanding, miserable anarchist!
Arvagor 01-16-07, 01:36 AM	Here's the current plan for him (copied from an email to someone else)... Sure it's probably not optimal, but that wasn't the goal... ##### Chaotic Good Suel Human (Ice Barbarian) Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10 1 Clr (Strength, Cold) Power Attack, Combat Casting (WrP requirement) 2 Clr 3 Clr Divine Spell Power 4 Clr 5 Clr 6 Clr Weapon Focus (battleaxe) 7 Clr 8 WrP 9 WrP Practiced Spellcaster 10 WrP 11 WrP 12 WrP Extra Turning 13 WrP 14 WrP 15 Clr Domain Spontaneity (Glory or Strength?) (WrP = warpriest) Bump Wisdom at 4th, 8th, and 12th (but see below) If character retirement remains at level 16, then the 8th level of warpriest really doesn't do anything -- switching back to Clr 8 gives the same benefits of WrP 8, but also bumps the Will save and will bump the Strength domain ability by another point. I think there is still enough "martialness" in the class that he could be considered a Vatunian paladin :), while still having respectable spellcasting as well; he won't gain access to his 6th level spells until 15th level (when he hits "11th" level in his casting class), but he'll have BAB +13 also... WrP also continues to advance his turning ability, and Glory domain doesn't hurt, although with his low Charisma, I don't know that I'd consider him a turning cleric. I could knock his starting Wisdom down to 14 and put those other two points in Cha -- not the biggest help to turning, I know, and there's only one WrP ability that needs any help from Cha (the Fear Aura (Su) at 5th level). Perhaps since he technically needs a Wisdom of 16 at 15th level only (because he won't be casting 6th level spells before then), I could make his starting Str 15 instead, put one bump (at 4th?) in Str, and the other two in Wis at 8th and 12th? I'm also a little undecided on the last two feats. Extra Turning will help me use Divine Spell Power a lot more, as I don't think I'm going to be turning undead 7x/day on a regular basis. and I could swap Practiced Spellcaster and Extra Turning, and/or possibly take Sacred Healing at 15th instead?
_m_ 01-16-07, 01:49 AM	I'm also a little undecided on the last two feats. Extra Turning will help me use Divine Spell Power a lot more, as I don't think I'm going to be turning undead 7x/day on a regular basis. and I could swap Practiced Spellcaster and Extra Turning, and/or possibly take Sacred Healing at 15th instead? wait till the next lgcs hits. see if ds and dmm are still in or not, before you build a cleric guy.
Arvagor 01-16-07, 07:43 AM	wait till the next lgcs hits. see if ds and dmm are still in or not, before you build a cleric guy.Well seeing as he's not going to be getting to 3rd level any time soon, I don't think I have to worry about it too much ;) And take a look again -- no DMM cheese on this guy, just the DSP, something I'm not particularly attached to if it goes away...
Arvagor 01-16-07, 09:59 AM	Yeah, so he'll need a level of barbarian in there, ostensibly for flavor, but also so he is proficient with that battleaxe ;) Damn you, HeroForge, for letting me build all 15 levels at once!
LGMoses 01-16-07, 02:30 PM	Me Thok. Me smite u in name of Heironeous smite Hooray Thok win day for big shiny paladin god. Thok do good.
_m_ 01-16-07, 06:19 PM	Yeah, so he'll need a level of barbarian in there, ostensibly for flavor, but also so he is proficient with that battleaxe ;) Damn you, HeroForge, for letting me build all 15 levels at once! does anyone know if hero forge has shadowcaster in it yet? my main is so damn complicated that i need to use it, but the last version didnt have tome of shadow, so i was out in the cold.