Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Efekjek 04-13-07, 10:41 AM	I'm lookin to build a primarily spell-slinging bard. Not really concerned with being offensive, I just want to have a good mix of buffing and crowd control. Not sure how good a bard can get at blasting, so I don't really care about that. I don't really plan on getting my hands dirty either (melee). Human 8 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 1 Bard: Melodic Casting, Spell Focus (Enchantment) 2 Marshal: (Motivating Dexterity for init) 3 Bard: Enchanting Song 4 Bard 5 Bard 6 Bard: Sculpt Spell 7 Lyric Thaumaturge 8 Lyric Thaumaturge: Captivating Melody* 9 Lyric Thaumaturge: Empower Spell(?) 10 Lyric Thaumaturge 11 Sublime Chord 12 Sublime Chord: Metamagic Song With combined spell focus, enchanting song, and captivating melody, I believe I can burn two bard songs to give me a +4 to the DC on my next enchantment spell, which sounds pretty good. Taking empower spell at 9 simply because metamagic song requires two metamagic feats. Any other metamagic that could be better than empower? Any other thoughts? One more thing: Lyric Thaumature technically only requires four levels of bard, so I might could take another one level dip before 6. I couldn't think of anything worthwhile though.
bitznarf 04-13-07, 11:02 AM	Just a note on table variation here. Sublime Chord tells us that it's caster level stacks with bard levels not bard caster levels. Some DM's may feel that the intent is not bard caster levels, so just be aware that your caster level may be lower at some tables then you expected.
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 11:12 AM	With Lyric Thaumaturge and the focus on being a caster, I might look to skip Marshal. The 4th level ability gives you an extra 4th level Bard spell per day and you're already losing the extra 2 spells known/1-2 spells per day. As an example, you could Empower Scorching Ray at 10th level if you wanted to do so with your 3rd level spell secret. Yes, as a Sublime Chord, you'll have access to the Orb spells, but that's effectively an orb spell for 'free', allowing you to focus on the enchantment spells of Sublime Chord. Technically, you need to have 5 levels of Bard for the required number of Extra Musics.
kjenks 04-13-07, 11:19 AM	I agree with MwaO. Ditch the Marshall level. It doesn't help you much and it reduces your caster level later on. You need more detail in your build plan. Deciding on what feats to select depends greatly on which spells you select. Empower Spell only works on a few bard spells. It won't help your Sublime Chord spells at all until you can cast level 6 spells.
Sieylianna 04-13-07, 12:41 PM	I was going to suggest Bard 2 before Marshal, but dropping the class entirely would be even better. Ed
magebeast 04-13-07, 05:13 PM	You don't qualify for sculpt without another metamagic feat. Ditto on dropping marshal.
Efekjek 04-13-07, 05:30 PM	Well, as I understand it, sublime chord sort of catches you back up because it simply grants you 4th level spells. I don't plan on doing much blasting either, which is why I'm not too concerned with losing caster levels as long as I hit sublime chord at 11. As for taking one level of marshal, I don't see it as losing all that much. I'd only be losing one second level spell per day. In return, though, I'd be getting skill focus (diplomacy) and what could eventually be a pretty hefty boost to the entire party's init. I guess I see that one spell per day as a very short-sighted and selfish want.
Efekjek 04-13-07, 05:31 PM	You don't qualify for sculpt without another metamagic feat. Are there any metamagic feats particularly good for bards?
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 06:37 PM	As for taking one level of marshal, I don't see it as losing all that much. I'd only be losing one second level spell per day. In return, though, I'd be getting skill focus (diplomacy) and what could eventually be a pretty hefty boost to the entire party's init. I guess I see that one spell per day as a very short-sighted and selfish want. As someone who plays a Bard X/Marshal 1/Sublime Chord, I can't tell you how many times I wished I had an extra highest level spell per day. And you're a caster bard, not a buff one. It also isn't just one spell. You're losing 2 4th/1 3rd level spells known and you cast two to three less 4th level spells per day(depending on whether or not you hit 26 Charisma) - there are a lot of great 4th level Bard spells that are hard to afford - and because you can stick Scorching Ray/Empower in that slot, you'll never waste those spells known if you take the 'really wish I had the slot for that, but I probably won't use it every mod' It isn't the ability to always go first that's so important if you've put Freedom of Movement on your grappled fighter, Break Enchantment on the Cleric who failed his save against the Medusa, or Modify Memory when you need to convince someone that you never enchanted them to do things against their will in the first place...