Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vanadium 12-27-06, 12:27 PM	Hello all. Here's what I have planned. I am unsure on how to do the breakdown of stats, though. Basic Idea is to use Inspire Recklessness and Power Attack in conjunction with Dervish Dance to tear up the battle field. Human Bard 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/War Chanter 3/ Dervish X 16/14/14/14/8/8 or 14/14/14/14/8/12 for stats, depending on how much I want spells. 1. Bard 1: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise 2. Ranger 1 (or another Bard level, unsure) : Track 3. Fighter 1 (or swap with Bard 2, can vary depending on Stats) : Dodge, Improved Trip 4. Fighter 2: Weapon Focus: Guisarme 5. Bard 2 6. War Chanter 1: Mobility 7. Dervish 1: Dervish Dance 8. War Chanter 2 9. War Chanter 3: Inspire Recklessness, Power Attack 10 on: Dervish to the end A Few questions, though, as I am unsure what to do. 1. Is dervish the way to go? I need the same feats for War Chanter and Dervish anyway, and all Dervish needs is another two moderately useless feats on top of that. However, Dervish gets good overall abilities and a good Will Save. Still, Dervish doesn't seem to be mandatory in my mind. 2. Is waiting until level 9 too long for Power Attack? I am thinking that I would really dislike that wait. I could swap it and Combat Reflexes around, but with this plan I could just be a reach fighter until 9, when there is a huge boost to damage. I think the reflexes might win, if only for the fact that there is a metaorg in the area that gives access to fullblades (sigh) so I tend to see a fullblade user every other mod or so. Stupid fullblades. 3. How should I allocate ability scores? I don't think with a mere 2 bard levels my spell casting would be too big. All I see I would miss out on would be some cantrips and Inspirational Boost. Even then, I would get only one daily use of Inspirational Boost from bonus spells. 4. What about skils? Dervish doesn't really have a great skill list to work with, in my opinion, but with my intelligence, Human bonus, and fair skill points per level, I have some to spend. I was thinking Use Magic Device would be a good one to cross-class. I was thinking of a Ranger level as well to get Track and Survival. Too bad that too would also be cross class (if I remember the Dervish list correctly). A social skill might not be a bad choice, something useful like Gather Info or something, especially with the levels of War Chanter in there. Thanks to anyone that gets through that wall of text and offers advice. Any input is good. Does the build look sound?
Mommy was an Orc 12-27-06, 02:15 PM	Looks reasonably good. Let's ask a couple of important questions: If you're not casting spells, why do you really need that 2nd Bard level? Sure, it helps with Warchanter, but you don't need it. Focusing Chant, Critical Strike and Invisibility Swift are all decent spells to use, though, if you're going to get that 1st level spell slot. Focusing Chant's a swift action, lasts a minute, and adds +1 to attack rolls and ability checks - great for a tripper. Get access to a couple of 1st level Memento things from Races of Dragon and you're set. I'm not particularly thrilled with the Ranger level - why not a Barbarian one? If you take it at 1st, you'll be real tough, gain some extra movement, and have some options for when you're out of Dances. I'd also switch Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip - Improved Trip is what makes Combat Reflexes powerful, not so much the other way around(especially as a Bard without proficiency in Guisarme) So how about something like this: 14/14/14/14/8/12 1. Barbarian 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip 2. Bard 1 3. Fighter 1 : Weapon Focus: Guisarme, Combat Reflexes 4. Bard 2 5. Fighter 2: Dodge 6. War Chanter 1: Mobility 7. Dervish 1: Dervish Dance 8. War Chanter 2 9. War Chanter 3: Inspire Recklessness, Power Attack 10 Dervish 2 11: Dervish 3: Spring Attack 12: Dervish 4: Elusive Target 13-15 Dervish 5-7
Vanadium 12-29-06, 11:51 AM	Looked over some of the suggestions. I guess I don't really know why the second bard level was there. It gives me a boost to will and reflex saves along with some good skill points, but I guess if I wasn't going towards a good enough charisma for spells I don't really know why I would bother. I think the only spell I would bother with would be Inspirational Boost, though, seeing as I can't use Focusing Chant and Bardic Music at the same time. Then again, if I lost that second bard level, what would I replace it with? The barbarian level is a good suggestion, though, seeing as raging is better than Track, which was largely the reason I was using a ranger level. However, I don't really know what to do with the start of the build. I could do the barbarian level first and net some more hit points, but the difference between going barbarian then bard only gets me three more hitpoints than bard to barbarian. If I were to go bard then barbarian, I would have a bunch of extra skillpoints that wouldn't go wasted in something useless to me, like ride. I could pump up some quality bardic skills with that first level, especially Use Magic Device which I was contemplating cross-classing for this character. By the way, is that a good idea considering that UMD has pretty high DCs and I would have only a middling bonus from Charisma (if not a penalty), or would it take to long to be usable?
budleiser 12-29-06, 12:38 PM	Looked over some of the suggestions. I guess I don't really know why the second bard level was there. It gives me a boost to will and reflex saves along with some good skill points, but I guess if I wasn't going towards a good enough charisma for spells I don't really know why I would bother. I think the only spell I would bother with would be Inspirational Boost, though, seeing as I can't use Focusing Chant and Bardic Music at the same time. Then again, if I lost that second bard level, what would I replace it with? The barbarian level is a good suggestion, though, seeing as raging is better than Track, which was largely the reason I was using a ranger level. However, I don't really know what to do with the start of the build. I could do the barbarian level first and net some more hit points, but the difference between going barbarian then bard only gets me three more hitpoints than bard to barbarian. If I were to go bard then barbarian, I would have a bunch of extra skillpoints that wouldn't go wasted in something useless to me, like ride. I could pump up some quality bardic skills with that first level, especially Use Magic Device which I was contemplating cross-classing for this character. By the way, is that a good idea considering that UMD has pretty high DCs and I would have only a middling bonus from Charisma (if not a penalty), or would it take to long to be usable? UMD DCs are high, but think about things that you can activate outside of combat. I think given the option giving yourself atleast a +1 overall to UMD is good. Because it lets you activate wand of cure light or lesser vigor, outside of combat.
Vanadium 01-10-07, 09:52 PM	I am very sorry for bumping this thread, but I was on a Winter Break and I guess I forgot about this. Right now with this build, as I have considered some things again, and I am unsure of how to begin this build. Basically, I am unsure of whether to take up MWaO's suggestion for a start (1barbarian, 2 bard, 2 fighter) or something else (1 bard, 4 fighter). I am unsure which to do, for while the build MWaO suggested would have access to spells and a daily rage, the other (with 4 fighter) would be done solely to move all my feats up a notch. Basically, I don't know about waiting until level 9 to get Power Attack. I guess what I am asking is whether or not waiting until level 9 for Power Attack is too long a wait. I'm thinking that MWaO's suggestion is the best course of action, but I would like someone's view on this (most likely trivial) issue.
_m_ 01-10-07, 10:08 PM	I am very sorry for bumping this thread, but I was on a Winter Break and I guess I forgot about this. Right now with this build, as I have considered some things again, and I am unsure of how to begin this build. Basically, I am unsure of whether to take up MWaO's suggestion for a start (1barbarian, 2 bard, 2 fighter) or something else (1 bard, 4 fighter). I am unsure which to do, for while the build MWaO suggested would have access to spells and a daily rage, the other (with 4 fighter) would be done solely to move all my feats up a notch. Basically, I don't know about waiting until level 9 to get Power Attack. I guess what I am asking is whether or not waiting until level 9 for Power Attack is too long a wait. I'm thinking that MWaO's suggestion is the best course of action, but I would like someone's view on this (most likely trivial) issue. dont get me wrong, power attack early is lovely... but everyone has it. i mean, so u wont have a bit of extra damage for some of your career. y potentially gimp / ruin a good, unique, flavourfull build that you'll enjoy just ebcause ur worried about not doing enough low level dmg. i think its perfectly ok towait till 9 for it... and more power to you. difference ftw.
clannagh 01-10-07, 11:55 PM	really depends what you are trying to achieve power attacking with a guisarme can be a good thing .. the guisarme approaches the spiked chain in effectiveness for strength fighters without all the bad press .. probably because traditionalists see it as a "proper" weapon ther are other possibilities early on but most lose BAB 1bard/1cleric/2 fighter -- for domains 1bard/1scout/2 fighter -- for skills and skirmish 1bard/1rogue/2 fighter -- for skills and sneak 1bard/1monk/2fighter -- to threaten the bit the glaive doesnt all could work
Vanadium 01-11-07, 08:34 AM	dont get me wrong, power attack early is lovely... but everyone has it. i mean, so u wont have a bit of extra damage for some of your career. y potentially gimp / ruin a good, unique, flavourfull build that you'll enjoy just ebcause ur worried about not doing enough low level dmg. i think its perfectly ok towait till 9 for it... and more power to you. difference ftw. Well, the thing about this is I don't really think that the mechanics of the build have a real impact on how the build plays. Well, that's not entirely true, because if I don't invest in stealth skills I can't very well wander around saying I am a master thief or whatever. But still, I can have a very robust and interesting character even if mechanically he's the same one you've seen before. 1bard/1cleric/2 fighter -- for domains 1bard/1scout/2 fighter -- for skills and skirmish 1bard/1rogue/2 fighter -- for skills and sneak 1bard/1monk/2fighter -- to threaten the bit the glaive doesnt all could work I don't really think that taking another hit to my BAB is worth the bonus ability I get here or there. Skills shouldn't be a problem, seeing as I am starting with a bard level for better skills, I'm human, and I have 14 intelligence. That, and the Dervish list seems lacking, so anything neat I pick up early on would need to be cross-classed at the end of the build. Skirmish is nice, especially with some feats from Complete Scoundrel that may or may not be in this next year, but I don't think I need to go wild for it. The trap finding of the class would probably be the biggest draw, to be honest, and even that would need 4 ranks/ level on average just to keep up on trap finding. Threatening isn't a problem as long as I have the quick fix in such situations: spiked armor. It isn't the best, but it is a viable option. That, and it might make things less willing to hug (or eat) me.