Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatSiron 04-13-07, 01:50 PM	I have a friend who wants to start a new character, a cleric. He wants to be a Radiant Servant of Pelor, known for their ability to end encounters with undead in one action. The catch? He wants to be able to fight in close combat and actually do damage. This means he can't wear an amulet of wisdom (he's going to need the hitpoints from an amulet of health). I made up a build for him, but I'm afraid that it's stretched WAY too thin, and will end up sucking at everything. Human Cleric of Pelor Domains: Sun and Glory (later Healing at RS 5) STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 8 WIS: 15 CHA: 14 1 Cleric 1: Augment Healing, Extra Turning 2 Cleric 2 3 Cleric 3: CWI 4 Cleric 4: Stat Boost WIS 5 Cleric 5 6 Cleric 6: CAA 7 RS 1 8 RS 2: Stat Boost WIS 9 RS 3: Sacred Ward 10 RS 4 11 RS 5: Bonus Domain Healing 12 RS 6: Stat Boost WIS, Power Attack 13 RS 7 14 RS 8 15 RS 9: ? This build doesn't have half of what a battle cleric usually has, and his CHA will be maxed at 20 (most turning builds would use Wis amulet and put all boost into CHA) What should I do?
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 02:09 PM	The easiest thing to do is give up on the idea that you're going to be a turning specialist. You're a guy who happens to have all martial weapon profs and a bonus domain to do your work. I'd do something like this: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8(10 Int is nice for skill points and you can always enchant a cloak of charisma) Cleric of Pelor(Sun, Strength) 1: Extra Turning, Divine Justice(PHB II) 3: CWI(start churning out stat items) 4: Wisdom 16 6: Power Attack 8: Wisdom 17 9: Quicken Spell 11: Bonus Domain(Purification) 12: Wisdom 18, CAA 15: ? (in case it isn't obvious - Quickened Recitation is your 7th level Domain Slot...)
Alpha_Nerd 04-13-07, 02:09 PM	20 CHA battle clerics without Divine Might? Shame on you.
GreatSiron 04-13-07, 03:06 PM	A few things I didn't clarify in my last post: he wants to be able to turn undead reliably (it's why he wanted a cheeseweasel in the first place). In encounters with no undead, he wants to be able to melee (he doesn't expect to do MAJOR damage, just enough to matter). And CAA has to be at 6th lvl, no exceptions. (Its the other reason he wanted to make a cleric, able to have better armor and weapons earlier and still be able to use them) He's not being very reasonable, but hey, what can I do? P.S. Divne Might is a better use of a feat than Divine Ward, at least for him (who will only heal if someone's at a 1/3 of his hitpoints or lower)
Alpha_Nerd 04-13-07, 03:15 PM	I'd do my feats something like this. 1 Power Attack, Extra Turning 3 CWI 6 CAA 9 Divine Might 12 Quicken Spell 15 Whatever you want. Also, you don't have to pick Pelor. Check out the Deities Document for list. I prefer Azor'alq for the War domain.
Zanzibax 04-13-07, 03:51 PM	I have a friend who wants to start a new character, a cleric. He wants to be a Radiant Servant of Pelor, known for their ability to end encounters with undead in one action. The catch? <<snip>> He wants to be able to fight in close combat and actually do damage. What should I do? Build me a Cleric Blaster instead. :ton:
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 04:05 PM	A few things I didn't clarify in my last post: he wants to be able to turn undead reliably (it's why he wanted a cheeseweasel in the first place). In encounters with no undead, he wants to be able to melee (he doesn't expect to do MAJOR damage, just enough to matter). And CAA has to be at 6th lvl, no exceptions. (Its the other reason he wanted to make a cleric, able to have better armor and weapons earlier and still be able to use them) He's not being very reasonable, but hey, what can I do? Seriously, this is the guy who TPKs parties. He's just good/bad enough at melee that he's going to pass up healing the tank to take a swing. If he was better at melee, that just might be a valid option. If he was worse, he'd realize that healing the tank is the obvious choice. And because Concentration is going to be a subpar skill for him until at least 8th due to his low Int/RSoP prereqs, he's not going to make that casting defensively check. I'd tell him that something has to give.
GreatSiron 04-13-07, 04:45 PM	Seriously, this is the guy who TPKs parties. He's just good/bad enough at melee that he's going to pass up healing the tank to take a swing. If he was better at melee, that just might be a valid option. If he was worse, he'd realize that healing the tank is the obvious choice. And because Concentration is going to be a subpar skill for him until at least 8th due to his low Int/RSoP prereqs, he's not going to make that casting defensively check. I'd tell him that something has to give. I emailed him what you said, and my build, and he caved. (He realized that there was no way that he'd be able to melee well enough to matter and still have the required CHA, and he's kinda leery of any build that has more than 3 critical stats and any spellcaster without maxed concentration ranks.) So the question is now, what would be more useful, a Radiant Servant or a battle cleric? (Either way, he says he will take CAA, he'll just loan his weapon away if someone can use it better than him.)
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 05:27 PM	So the question is now, what would be more useful, a Radiant Servant or a battle cleric? (Either way, he says he will take CAA, he'll just loan his weapon away if someone can use it better than him.) It depends on what's more necessary - if your area is low on tanks, go with the battle cleric build I did on top - you don't have to go RSoP for it, but picking up all martial weapons proficiency at 7th doesn't hurt. I've got a variation on it which goes for any of the Destruction Gods and starts taking Extra Smites at 6th+ level. If it is low on healing, go for more of a caster cleric. Domain Spontaneity of Purification can be a lot of fun - Recitation as a 3rd level spell for each combat and it also packs some offense. I think the major thing though that is important - if you're going to go Radiant Servant, you want to have Extra Turning(prereq), a Turning Feat, and a Crafting feat by 6th level. With all those turning attempts, not being able to use them at all unless there's undead floating around hurts. So feats like this, maybe: 1: Extra Turning, Augment Healing 3: CWI or Domain Spont(Purification) 6: CAA or Domain Spont(Purification) 9: CWI or CAA(whichever of the 2 you didn't get)
zoinks69 04-15-07, 01:58 AM	So the question is now, what would be more useful, a Radiant Servant or a battle cleric? (Either way, he says he will take CAA, he'll just loan his weapon away if someone can use it better than him.) Well, there's lots of Radiant Servants out there, for obvious reasons. While it's a tough nut to swallow, I'd check out the other Radiant Servant options: Deity - Domains other that Sun worth mentioning Atroa - Plant (good source of AC not otherwise available to clerics and Wall of Thorns later on), Travel (good source of cool spells not usually available to clerics, extremely good domain power Azor'alq - War domain with scimitar. Not outstanding, but a good option for melee cleric types. Ehlonna - Plant, Celerity (good for light armor types), Purification (Recitation as 3rd level) Lydia - Travel and Liberation (not great if you end up taking Contemplative levels later) Nola - Healing and Glory (a small bump for turn checks but also gives Holy Smite which you normally need later on to craft Bead of Karma) Pholtus - Glory, Inquisition (+4 unnamed bonus to dispels = extremely handy), Phyton - Plant Skerrit (centaurs) - Healing and Plant
kjenks 04-16-07, 01:14 AM	Build me a Cleric Blaster instead. :ton: A cleric blaster, eh? That's an interesting challenge. Nimbus of Light makes for a fine opening salvo, with Empower Spell adding a lot of punch. 1d8+caster level, Empowered. It's nice if you suspect there's trouble ahead and you can cast a 1 min/level spell a bit before you get into a fight. Energy Vortex and Ring of Blades are pretty nice for blasting, since a cleric has the armor and HP to get in there and mix it up. Dragon Breath is pretty good, especially when shared with a familiar. Flame Strike is one of the best blasting spells in the game; 15d6 cap and it even hurts critters immune to fire. Bolt of Glory is really nice against evil outsiders & undead. Cometfall is pretty good. Lion’s Roar and Stormrage are good blasting fun. Some of the domains give a cleric some blasting potential, but not a lot. Cold Domain for Cone of Cold and Polar Ray. Destruction Domain for Disintegrate and some (bleh) Inflict spells. Windstorm Domain for Arc of Lightning. Fire Domain. Oh, yeah, the Fire domain. Okay, how about this for a cleric blaster build. Straight cleric all the way, human or deep halfling. Concentrate on Wisdom and Dex. Feats: Two-weapon Fighting, Domain Spontaneity (Fire), Empower Spell, Energy Substitution (Acid), Extend Spell. Use metamagic rods in place of those metamagic feats, as you find access. You use Produce Flame with Two-weapon Fighting to hurl many balls of fire rapidly. Use metamagic feats and/or rods on the spell. Cast other blasty spells from the list above and from the Fire domain. Hiatea, goddess of giants, gives you both the Sun and Fire domains. Jormay gives you both Fire and Destruction. Domain Spontaneity makes it all work. You're a cleric with full caster levels, with all of that healing goodness. But you can also lay down the flame, not quite as well as a dedicated wizard or druid, but with some serious damage per round. Be careful, though, because spontaneous spellcasting with metamagic increases your casting time. This applies to clerics, too.
magebeast 04-16-07, 02:29 AM	Good friend of mine is combining domain spontaneity fire with the fire reserve feat.
kjenks 04-16-07, 09:41 AM	Good friend of mine is combining domain spontaneity fire with the fire reserve feat. Make sure he checks the wording on the feats. From what I recall, they won't work together this way.
Zanzibax 04-17-07, 05:02 PM	A cleric blaster, eh? That's an interesting challenge. Nimbus of Light makes for a fine opening salvo, with Empower Spell adding a lot of punch. 1d8+caster level, Empowered. It's nice if you suspect there's trouble ahead and you can cast a 1 min/level spell a bit before you get into a fight. Energy Vortex and Ring of Blades are pretty nice for blasting, since a cleric has the armor and HP to get in there and mix it up. Dragon Breath is pretty good, especially when shared with a familiar. Flame Strike is one of the best blasting spells in the game; 15d6 cap and it even hurts critters immune to fire. Bolt of Glory is really nice against evil outsiders & undead. Cometfall is pretty good. Lion’s Roar and Stormrage are good blasting fun. Some of the domains give a cleric some blasting potential, but not a lot. Cold Domain for Cone of Cold and Polar Ray. Destruction Domain for Disintegrate and some (bleh) Inflict spells. Windstorm Domain for Arc of Lightning. Fire Domain. Oh, yeah, the Fire domain. Okay, how about this for a cleric blaster build. Straight cleric all the way, human or deep halfling. Concentrate on Wisdom and Dex. Feats: Two-weapon Fighting, Domain Spontaneity (Fire), Empower Spell, Energy Substitution (Acid), Extend Spell. Use metamagic rods in place of those metamagic feats, as you find access. You use Produce Flame with Two-weapon Fighting to hurl many balls of fire rapidly. Use metamagic feats and/or rods on the spell. Cast other blasty spells from the list above and from the Fire domain. Hiatea, goddess of giants, gives you both the Sun and Fire domains. Jormay gives you both Fire and Destruction. Domain Spontaneity makes it all work. You're a cleric with full caster levels, with all of that healing goodness. But you can also lay down the flame, not quite as well as a dedicated wizard or druid, but with some serious damage per round. Be careful, though, because spontaneous spellcasting with metamagic increases your casting time. This applies to clerics, too. Nola gives you Fire and Glory...and all LG adventuring groups neet a parental figure to guide them. Fire and Glory seem best to me for some reason. Destruction with Reach Spell feat...maybe...but the blaster seems feat starved to me when I try to add precise & point blank shot for ranged attacks with Reach Spell... ((That's me)) As for the rest of it...I'm finding with my poor attempts at builds that once you have a build, you have a high HP / decent AC blaster...not someone that can be effective in combat. I looked at a druid also for effect...better blasting spell selection... ...I'm not happy with the builds I've made...want me to spell one out or can you actually build a blaster cleric from the ground up?
Zanzibax 04-17-07, 05:03 PM	Make sure he checks the wording on the feats. From what I recall, they won't work together this way. I considered an energy substitution feat but I think it runs into the same problems with Domain Spontenaity.
Zanzibax 04-20-07, 08:48 AM	...