Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 02-19-07, 07:26 PM	So, after checking through the Beguiler spell list it seems like they had a lot of traits that would be great for a Gish, so I thought I'd make one for my next character Human, Beguiler 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 7 STR 15 DEX 15 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 8 1 Beguiler: Combat Expertise, Improved trip 2 Beguiler: 3 Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dire Flail 4 Beguiler: STR +1, Advanced Learning: Distract Assailant 5 Beguiler 6 Beguiler: Power Attack 7 Beguiler 8 Eldritch Knight: INT +1, Arcane Strike 9 Spellsword: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 10 Eldritch Knight 11 Eldritch Knight 12 Eldritch Knight:INT +1, Practiced Spellcaster 13 Eldritch Knight 14 Eldritch Knight 15 Eldritch Knight: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting I've decided to stick with the Two-Weapon fighting route. I'm picking up Distract Assailant because it seems like the only good spell from the list, unless you guys can suggest another. Spellsword 1 is for when I eventually get an animated heavy shield.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-19-07, 07:33 PM	So, after checking through the Beguiler spell list it seems like they had a lot of traits that would be great for a gish, so I thought I'd make one for my next character Human, Beguiler 4/Fighter 1/Unseen Seer 2/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 7 STR 15 DEX 15 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 8 1 Beguiler: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip 2 Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Beguiler: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dire Flail 4 Beguiler: STR +1 5 Beguiler 6 Unseen Seer: Power Attack 7 Unseen Seer 8 Spellsword: INT +1 9 Eldritch Knight: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Arcane Strike 10 Eldritch Knight 11 Eldritch Knight 12 Eldritch Knight:INT +1, Practiced Spellcaster 13 Eldritch Knight 14 Eldritch Knight 15 Eldritch Knight: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting I'm Two-Weapon Fighting to get the most out of Arcane Strike, and I'm using A Dire Flail so I can hold it in one hand to cast spells if I have to. I figure I'll take Critical Strike for my Unseen Seer advanced learning spell, unless someone has a better idea. So let me know what you guys think. Not too bad...I do like the beguiler spell list. Only sad part is you don't get any benefit from the damage bonus from unseen seer, since you don't have any sneak attack to add damage too...Hopefully you can take out 3 bad guys without magic in your intro mod to qualify for spellsword.
Evanta 02-23-07, 01:36 AM	I'm currently tinkering with the idea of using bladesinger. It'll be more of a rogue-type character with melee support than a pure melee fighter I think. Elf (or maybe gray elf?) STR 14 INT 16 WIS 8 DEX 16 CON 12 CHA 10 Fighter 4 / Beguiler 2 / Bladesinger ?10 B1: Weapon Focus (Rapier) F1: Weapon Finesse F2: Combat Expertise, Combat Casting B2: - F3: - F4: Weapon Specialisation, Dodge S1: - B3: (pick up bladeweave) S2: Arcane Strike / Melee Weapon Mastery S3: - B4: - S4: Melee Weapon Mastery / Arcane Strike, Celerity At Clvl 12 should have 6 levels of beguiler casting (haste and heroism), BAB +10, melee weapon mastery + arcane strike for significant attack damage. And your defenses should be quite high (light armour + DEX bonuses + INT bonuses + any buffs) After that, probably will continue taking Beguiler levels. Attack plan: R1: Haste, Mirror Image. R2: Tumble in, attack n Whelm R3 onwards: Keep fullattacking n Whelming.
Sieylianna 02-23-07, 12:21 PM	I'm currently tinkering with the idea of using bladesinger. It'll be more of a rogue-type character with melee support than a pure melee fighter I think. Elf (or maybe gray elf?) STR 14 INT 16 WIS 8 DEX 16 CON 12 CHA 10 Fighter 4 / Beguiler 2 / Bladesinger ?10 B1: Weapon Focus (Rapier) F1: Weapon Finesse F2: Combat Expertise, Combat Casting You can't take weapon focus at level 1 because you don't have a BAB of +1. You need to move combat casting to 1st and take weapon focus at 3rd. Ed
Howie23 02-23-07, 12:25 PM	I'm Two-Weapon Fighting to get the most out of Arcane Strike, and I'm using A Dire Flail so I can hold it in one hand to cast spells if I have to. A dire flail can be held in one hand, but will not be usable with one hand. Are you trying to avoid dropping a weapon? David
Mommy was an Orc 02-23-07, 12:26 PM	Just to point out - with a 14 Wisdom and Arcane Disciple(War) you can cast Divine Power...
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 01:06 PM	Why do you do this to me MwaO :) I decided on Competition for Righteous Might and Divine Power, I might replace Weapon Focus with another arcane disciple, I'm not sure though. Here's hoping to a +2 wis ioun stone by 11th level!
Mommy was an Orc 02-23-07, 01:16 PM	What might be really bizarre, just to further throw chaos into the water... Try to pull off Ride By Attack/Shock Trooper with it and a Mount that you can share spells with. You charge and then use Swift Etherealness after the charge.
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 01:18 PM	I'm sure quite sure I'm following? Swift etherealness my mount and I and charge with a ghost touch lance? With Improved Familiar I can eventually get a hippogriff.
Mommy was an Orc 02-23-07, 01:23 PM	I'm sure quite sure I'm following? Swift etherealness my mount and I and charge with a ghost touch lance? With Improved Familiar I can eventually get a hippogriff. Basically - or you can charge your opponent and go Ethereal after the charge and not need the ghost touch lance.
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 01:24 PM	well, being ethereal will let me charge through allies and terrain wont it?
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 01:27 PM	Would Arcane Strike be doubled/tripled on a charge?
evilaustintom 02-23-07, 01:42 PM	Arcane Strike bonus damage won't multiply with a lance charge. Only base damage multipliers (not dice), like power attack, Str damage, specialization, etc. The to hit bonus is always helpful, though...particularly with power attack. I'm working on a Spellsword mounted PC now. Keep in mind that a hippogriph familiar takes a BAB +7 to get...which takes a while as an arcane caster. Still, quickened true strike with a lance is a mighty fine thing... Tom Thowe
clik_ml 02-23-07, 05:58 PM	Does a beguiler actually make a decent gish? I don't see it. Generally the notion of a spellcasting warrior is that they have buffs (and arcane strike) in order to make up for their lack of feats, HD, and BAB. My hazy recollection of the beguiler spell list is that while it is awesome, it is awesome in a context of a primary caster... not a list that a fighting type would ever wish for. So in actual play, this character is going to either be casting decent wizard spells at later levels than the real deal or if he decides to change hats and not use the save or suck spells then he's going to be an inferior fighter... even more inferior than a normal gish. At least he has trapfinding I guess. As for recommendations, I would definitely push obtain familiar back... way back, and bring spirited charge forward in its place. Sprited Charge definitely does make up for a lot of inadequacies, but it is going to be harder to pull it off as a human, since you can't be riding a large mount everywhere. However, at 6th level you have all of 3 BAB and that's not much to work with, even for a spirited charge character. Your attack bonus is going to be scraping the gutter so hard that you might have a hard time justifying the removal of even a couple precious BAB. I'm not sure I see the point in the Unseen Seer since it doesn't even add sneak attack or anything of that sort. You're just burning skill points there. Likewise, Spellsword is kind of silly since you already don't suffer spell failure in light armor. It's a decent +1 BAB, +saves, +1 caster level, but hurts the skills that make beguilers so nice. So I would recommend ditching the human form and going for something more superior, like a deep halfling (or gnome, if you must). You lose a feat but gain awesomeness. This will draw consideration as to whether or not you want to take an exp (and gold) penalty from multiclassing tho. Something like... Deep Halfling 13/12/14/14/14/8 (bump order: Str,Int,Wis) 2 Beguiler/1 Fighter/4 Beguiler/8 Eldritch Knight 1)Mounted Combat 3)Ride By Attack 3)Spirited Charge 6)Power Attack 8)Improved Bull Rush 9)Shock Trooper 12)ArcaneDisciple(Competition) 15)QuickenSpell I won't lie, I am utterly biased in favor of deep halflings, so take this with a dash of salt.
Loignar 02-23-07, 06:10 PM	forgive my ignorance, but what is a gish?
clik_ml 02-23-07, 06:13 PM	forgive my ignorance, but what is a gish? Essentially, a Fighter/Wizard who fights.
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 06:15 PM	I've decided to stick with the Two-Weapon Fighting route. The mounted build was a little too janky for me.
Mommy was an Orc 02-23-07, 07:02 PM	I'm not sure I see the point in the Unseen Seer since it doesn't even add sneak attack or anything of that sort. You're just burning skill points there. Unseen Seer adds a Divination spell - such as Master's Touch, Guided Shot, True Strike, Critical Strike. Master's Touch is pretty useful for a Gish who doesn't want to take a level in Fighter. Quickened True Strike is useful for a charge build. Etc...
cycloptic_squirrel 02-27-07, 04:46 AM	I'm sure quite sure I'm following? Swift etherealness my mount and I and charge with a ghost touch lance? With Improved Familiar I can eventually get a hippogriff. I don't think ghost touch will allow you hit things while you're ethereal. If you were incorpreal, it would, but not ethereal. Which is a shame... ghost touch would go so well with blink if it did. :(
wooti 02-28-07, 08:24 AM	Just to point out - with a 14 Wisdom and Arcane Disciple(War) you can cast Divine Power... Correct me if I'm wrong but my reading of Arcane Disciple says you can learn spells from the domain as NORMAL for your class. Which would mean that you would have to use advance learning to get spells from arcane disciple and Divine Power is evocation rather than enchantment or illusion. Which means it would work for war mages, shame their spells aren't nearly as nice for a gish.
Mommy was an Orc 02-28-07, 09:37 AM	Correct me if I'm wrong but my reading of Arcane Disciple says you can learn spells from the domain as NORMAL for your class. Which would mean that you would have to use advance learning to get spells from arcane disciple and Divine Power is evocation rather than enchantment or illusion. Which means it would work for war mages, shame their spells aren't nearly as nice for a gish. Arcane Disciple adds the spells to your spell list. "When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all the spells for that level on the beguiler's spell list." - they're on your list, you know them. I suppose someone could argue you might not know the lower level of spells if you didn't take the domains early enough.
Timlagor 02-28-07, 12:42 PM	That would be a very weak argument indeed ..on a par with the guy who claimed that you only got the Oracle Domain spells for the levels of Divine Oracle you took