Beguiler/Dracolexi Kobold [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler/Dracolexi Kobold [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NeSoDak
07-30-07, 09:47 AM Just thought this could be a good build for a kobold and was hoping to get some tweaking ideas from the group.

STR 6
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 15
WIS 8
CHA 14

1 Beg - Armored Mage, Trapfinding, Spell Focus (Enchantment)
2 Beg - Cloaked Casting (+1 DC), Surpise Casting
3 Beg - Advanced Learning, Eschew Materials
4 Beg - +1 INT
5 Beg - Bonus Feat (Silent Spell)
6 Beg - Surprise Casting (Swift action), Unsettling Enchantment
7 Dracolexi rest of the way, with Combat Expertise @ 9th, Improved Feint @ 12th, and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) @ 15th.

I'm looking at making a character that is more of an infiltrator/investigator. So not sure what skill set to choose. For Dracolexi, need to take two languages, Know(Arcana) 8, Perform(Oratory) 4, Spellcraft 4. I was thinking the Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search set.
RavenLoft_Story
07-30-07, 10:07 AM You might want to make a place for weapon finesse just in case you want to hit something with the daggers of yours.
UMiskatonic
07-30-07, 10:29 AM I suggest a ranged weapon, if you feel you have to have a weapon at all.

Alchemist's fire works nicely, as does holy water.

I'd avoid weapon finesse like the plague, it's only going to encourage you to be in melee.
UMiskatonic
07-30-07, 10:34 AM As far as the build goes, I'd make some changes to your feats.

a) take spell focus enchantment at first level. You want you spells to work, it's your primary attack.

b) Take expertise at 3rd level, your kobold light armor AC will be competetive until then, remember it's not until 3rd-4th level that anyone can actually afford full plate.

c) What exactly would improved feint help you do? You are a spell caster, why not take Craft wondrous or craft arms and armor, or some kinda meta-magic feat.

Seriously, what's your best attack? d4-2? Might as well not bother.
NeSoDak
07-30-07, 10:46 AM c) What exactly would improved feint help you do? You are a spell caster, why not take Craft wondrous or craft arms and armor, or some kinda meta-magic feat.

Seriously, what's your best attack? d4-2? Might as well not bother.

Improved feint changes the Surpise Casting from a move action to a swift action at 6th level. This would allow me to feint in melee, cast a spell (because my opponent would be flatfooted and wouldn't have an AoO) and move away. Without it, you would have to use your move action to feint and you wouldn't be able to move away and cast a spell.

I do agree that melee weapon combat is pointless with this character. Beguiler gives me access to hand crossbow, and that would be my weapon of choice, if I ever used a weapon.

I was thinking that there is that specialized Enchantment feat to take at 9th. Can't remember the name at the moment, at work and don't have my books with me.
Maesto
07-30-07, 10:47 AM I think it's for the +2 bump to DCs that beguilers get when their opponents are flatfooted. Unfortunately, you need to be in melee for it to work, from memory.
UMiskatonic
07-30-07, 02:58 PM Sorry,

I should have said out loud that while I think beguiler is a strong, fun class, I think that the special features are of very little use.

The bump to DC is just not worth the risks of melee. I'd give up on it entirely, were I a beguiler. The beguiler I play in World's Largest Dungeon tries very hard to avoid melee.

You're still limited to one spell a round, either way.

Besides, compare Imp. Feint to Spell Focus. Start in melee, a roll to feint, followed by potentially dangerous movement for a +2 to DCs, or +1 to DCs all the time.

Or, take Craft Wondrous, and make yourself a +4 stat bump item. That's +2 all the time, and offers a horde of other useful, cheap items.
bitznarf
07-31-07, 12:30 AM I think it's for the +2 bump to DCs that beguilers get when their opponents are flatfooted. Unfortunately, you need to be in melee for it to work, from memory.
No, the target simply has to be flat footed relative to you. There are ways to do this such as grease and distract assailant. You simply need to be in melee to feint, to to take advantage of cloaked casting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NeSoDak 07-30-07, 09:47 AM	Just thought this could be a good build for a kobold and was hoping to get some tweaking ideas from the group. STR 6 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 15 WIS 8 CHA 14 1 Beg - Armored Mage, Trapfinding, Spell Focus (Enchantment) 2 Beg - Cloaked Casting (+1 DC), Surpise Casting 3 Beg - Advanced Learning, Eschew Materials 4 Beg - +1 INT 5 Beg - Bonus Feat (Silent Spell) 6 Beg - Surprise Casting (Swift action), Unsettling Enchantment 7 Dracolexi rest of the way, with Combat Expertise @ 9th, Improved Feint @ 12th, and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) @ 15th. I'm looking at making a character that is more of an infiltrator/investigator. So not sure what skill set to choose. For Dracolexi, need to take two languages, Know(Arcana) 8, Perform(Oratory) 4, Spellcraft 4. I was thinking the Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search set.
RavenLoft_Story 07-30-07, 10:07 AM	You might want to make a place for weapon finesse just in case you want to hit something with the daggers of yours.
UMiskatonic 07-30-07, 10:29 AM	I suggest a ranged weapon, if you feel you have to have a weapon at all. Alchemist's fire works nicely, as does holy water. I'd avoid weapon finesse like the plague, it's only going to encourage you to be in melee.
UMiskatonic 07-30-07, 10:34 AM	As far as the build goes, I'd make some changes to your feats. a) take spell focus enchantment at first level. You want you spells to work, it's your primary attack. b) Take expertise at 3rd level, your kobold light armor AC will be competetive until then, remember it's not until 3rd-4th level that anyone can actually afford full plate. c) What exactly would improved feint help you do? You are a spell caster, why not take Craft wondrous or craft arms and armor, or some kinda meta-magic feat. Seriously, what's your best attack? d4-2? Might as well not bother.
NeSoDak 07-30-07, 10:46 AM	c) What exactly would improved feint help you do? You are a spell caster, why not take Craft wondrous or craft arms and armor, or some kinda meta-magic feat. Seriously, what's your best attack? d4-2? Might as well not bother. Improved feint changes the Surpise Casting from a move action to a swift action at 6th level. This would allow me to feint in melee, cast a spell (because my opponent would be flatfooted and wouldn't have an AoO) and move away. Without it, you would have to use your move action to feint and you wouldn't be able to move away and cast a spell. I do agree that melee weapon combat is pointless with this character. Beguiler gives me access to hand crossbow, and that would be my weapon of choice, if I ever used a weapon. I was thinking that there is that specialized Enchantment feat to take at 9th. Can't remember the name at the moment, at work and don't have my books with me.
Maesto 07-30-07, 10:47 AM	I think it's for the +2 bump to DCs that beguilers get when their opponents are flatfooted. Unfortunately, you need to be in melee for it to work, from memory.
UMiskatonic 07-30-07, 02:58 PM	Sorry, I should have said out loud that while I think beguiler is a strong, fun class, I think that the special features are of very little use. The bump to DC is just not worth the risks of melee. I'd give up on it entirely, were I a beguiler. The beguiler I play in World's Largest Dungeon tries very hard to avoid melee. You're still limited to one spell a round, either way. Besides, compare Imp. Feint to Spell Focus. Start in melee, a roll to feint, followed by potentially dangerous movement for a +2 to DCs, or +1 to DCs all the time. Or, take Craft Wondrous, and make yourself a +4 stat bump item. That's +2 all the time, and offers a horde of other useful, cheap items.
bitznarf 07-31-07, 12:30 AM	I think it's for the +2 bump to DCs that beguilers get when their opponents are flatfooted. Unfortunately, you need to be in melee for it to work, from memory. No, the target simply has to be flat footed relative to you. There are ways to do this such as grease and distract assailant. You simply need to be in melee to feint, to to take advantage of cloaked casting.