Beguiler/Unseen Seer Advanced Learning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler/Unseen Seer Advanced Learning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bitznarf
04-03-07, 01:45 AM I've been looking at the Beguiler and Unseen Seer Advanced Learning options and I've come up with these possibilities:

Str 6 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 8

L1: Beguiler 1 - Spell Focus (Illusion), armored mage, trapfinding
L2: Beguiler 2 - Cloaked casting (+1 DC), surprise casting
L3: Beguiler 3 - Heighten Spell, advanced learning (???)
L4: Beguiler 4
L5: Beguiler 5 - Silent Spell
L6: Mindbender 1 - Metamagic School Focus (Illusion), telepathy

2 options here, depending on the advanced learning I want:

L7: Beguiler 6 - Surprise casting (move action)
L8: Beguiler 7 - Advanced learning (???)
or
L7: Unseen Seer 1
L8: Unseen Seer 2 - Advanced learning (???), Silent Spell

L9: Shadowcraft Mage 1 - Cloak of shadow, Earth Sense
L10: Shadowcraft Mage 2 - Silent illusion
L11: Shadowcraft Mage 3 - Shadow illusion
L12: Shadowcraft Mage 4 - Extend illusion, Earth Spell
L13: Shadowcraft Mage 5 - Powerful shadow magic

From here I have a few options:

Beguiler 6/7 or Unseen Seer 1/2, whichever I didn't take above
or
Beguiler 8/Something1 if I took Beguiler 6/7 above, for the +2 vs. Spell Resistance

Original build thread found here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800515

My thoughts on the advanced learning so far:

At Beguiler 3 I would take friendly face to shore up my weak charisma and loss of ranks in diplomacy and gather information when I enter Shadowcraft Mage.

At level 8, I could take assay spell resistance (Cleric 4) as an Unseen Seer if I get access. Not sure what other low level divinations might be appropriate in its place.
As a Beguiler, the only spell that I found in the Open spell list that I might consider is phantasmal killer, something that loses potency as I gain levels, so a sub-optimal choice, although I could always heighten it.

If I took Beguiler in the mid levels and Unseen Seer in the later levels, I found 3 spells on the Open list that might fit the bill for what I want: brain spider (Cleric 7), find the path (Bard, Cleric, Druid 6), commune (Cleric 5).
Doing it the other way around (Unseen Seer in the middle levels, then Beguiler) a couple of spells caught my eye: transfix (Sorc/Wiz 7), geas/quest (Bard, Cleric, Sorc/Wiz 6), programmed image (Bard, Sorc/Wiz 6).

Are there any Open spells that I missed that I should be considering? How about NONC spells that I should watch out for? Something else that I have missed entirely?
Mommy was an Orc
04-03-07, 08:45 AM I like the following spells for Unseen Seer:
Listening Lorecall - Blindsight with enough ranks in Listen...
Prying Eyes
Unluck
Stone Tell

Beguiler:
False Vision
Greater Heroism
Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells(obviously not that useful for you)
evilaustintom
04-03-07, 11:48 AM I don't know if this will help, but it's a list of NON-WIZARD spells that the Unseen Seer could benefit from with Advanced learning...

Divination spells to take as an Unseen Seer (non-wizard spells out of SC, PHB, RD, RW, RS) as of 3/12/07:

- guidance (PHB) 0 level – get +1 to attack, save or skill check once.
- know direction (PHB) 0 level spell – know true north instantly.
- blessed aim (SC) 1st level – +2 morale to hit w/ranged attacks, 1 min/level.
- detect animals or plants (PHB) 1st level – locate natural stuff.
- detect chaos (PHB) 1st level – detect Chaotic.
- detect evil (PHB) 1st level – detect Evil.
- detect good (PHB) 1st level – detect Good.
- detect law (PHB) 1st level – detect Lawful.
- detect snares & pits (PHB) 1st level – detect natural traps, 10 min/level.
- grave strike (SC) 1st level – sneak attack undead for 1 round.
- omen of peril (SC) 1st level – basic good/bad divination-type spell.
- speak with animals (PHB) 1st level – talk with animals.
- vine strike (SC) 1st level – lets you sneak attack plant for 1 round.
- augury (PHB) 2nd level – basic divination 30 minutes into future.
- find traps (PHB) 2nd level – get insight bonus to search checks vs traps.
- listening lorecall (SC) 2nd level – gain blindsense/blindsight, 10 min/level.
- speak with plants (PHB) 2nd level – talk with plants.
- status (PHB) 2nd level – know status of allies.
- discern lies (PHB) 3rd level – sense lies of subject.
- listening coin (SC) 3rd level – turn two coins into transmitter/receiver, 1 hr/level.
- speech link (SC) 3rd level – you can verbally communicate with ally (a.k.a. lesser telepathic bond), 10 min/level.
- weather eye (SC) 3rd level – predict weather.
- commune with nature (PHB) 4th level – learn about surroundings.
- divination (PHB) 4th level – get advice on future.
- implacable pursuer (SC) 4th level – target of spell has a ‘tracer’, 1 hr/level.
- commune with city (RD) 5th level – commune w/nature for city.
- dream sight (SC) 6th level – send spirit ahead to scout.
- find the path (PHB) 6th level – find shortest rout to destination.
- stone tell (PHB) 6th level – talk with stone.
- brain spider (SC) 7th level – like probe thoughts, but multiple foes, can be used in combat.
- choose destiny (RD) 9th level – make all rolls twice, take better of 2, 1 rd/level.

NONC
- echo skull (SC) 5th level – see through the eyes of a skull, 1 hr/level.
- find the gap (SC) 3rd level – one attack each round is a touch attack, 1 rd/level.
- know greatest enemy (SC) 1st level – detect CRs of creatures in cone, 1 rd/level.
- know opponent (SC) 3rd level – learn strengths/weaknesses of opponents.
- lay of the land (SC) 1st level – instant knowledge of landmarks for 50 miles.
- one mind (3 different levels of spells) (SC) 1st/2nd/3rd level – you and special mount gain bonuses, 1 hr/level.
- sense heretic (SC) 1st level – item glows when w/i 100’ of evil caster, 10 min/level.
- sense husk (SC) 2nd level – see or hear through animal, 1 min/level.
- telepathic aura (SC) 4th level – you can communicate telepathically 1-way with all allies in 100’ radius, 10 min/level.
- vision of glory (SC) 1st level – over next minute, get + to next save based on Charisma score.
- zone of revelation (SC) 5th level – makes everything visible around you (including ethereal/shadow), 1 min/level.
LeeShort
04-03-07, 02:56 PM I like the following spells for Unseen Seer:

Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells(obviously not that useful for you)

Doesn't he need one of these to qualify for SCM?
bitznarf
04-03-07, 02:57 PM Doesn't he need one of these to qualify for SCM?
I'm using a heightened legion of sentinels.
Timlagor
04-03-07, 03:36 PM I'm using a heightened legion of sentinels.

You really shouldn't be counting on Heighten for this.
bitznarf
04-03-07, 04:20 PM You really shouldn't be counting on Heighten for this.
If you are talking about possible table variation about it working as a prerequisite, this is a level of table variation I'm willing to accept. Not sure what else you could be talking about to be honest.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bitznarf 04-03-07, 01:45 AM	I've been looking at the Beguiler and Unseen Seer Advanced Learning options and I've come up with these possibilities: Str 6 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 8 L1: Beguiler 1 - Spell Focus (Illusion), armored mage, trapfinding L2: Beguiler 2 - Cloaked casting (+1 DC), surprise casting L3: Beguiler 3 - Heighten Spell, advanced learning (???) L4: Beguiler 4 L5: Beguiler 5 - Silent Spell L6: Mindbender 1 - Metamagic School Focus (Illusion), telepathy 2 options here, depending on the advanced learning I want: L7: Beguiler 6 - Surprise casting (move action) L8: Beguiler 7 - Advanced learning (???) or L7: Unseen Seer 1 L8: Unseen Seer 2 - Advanced learning (???), Silent Spell L9: Shadowcraft Mage 1 - Cloak of shadow, Earth Sense L10: Shadowcraft Mage 2 - Silent illusion L11: Shadowcraft Mage 3 - Shadow illusion L12: Shadowcraft Mage 4 - Extend illusion, Earth Spell L13: Shadowcraft Mage 5 - Powerful shadow magic From here I have a few options: Beguiler 6/7 or Unseen Seer 1/2, whichever I didn't take above or Beguiler 8/Something1 if I took Beguiler 6/7 above, for the +2 vs. Spell Resistance Original build thread found here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800515 My thoughts on the advanced learning so far: At Beguiler 3 I would take friendly face to shore up my weak charisma and loss of ranks in diplomacy and gather information when I enter Shadowcraft Mage. At level 8, I could take assay spell resistance (Cleric 4) as an Unseen Seer if I get access. Not sure what other low level divinations might be appropriate in its place. As a Beguiler, the only spell that I found in the Open spell list that I might consider is phantasmal killer, something that loses potency as I gain levels, so a sub-optimal choice, although I could always heighten it. If I took Beguiler in the mid levels and Unseen Seer in the later levels, I found 3 spells on the Open list that might fit the bill for what I want: brain spider (Cleric 7), find the path (Bard, Cleric, Druid 6), commune (Cleric 5). Doing it the other way around (Unseen Seer in the middle levels, then Beguiler) a couple of spells caught my eye: transfix (Sorc/Wiz 7), geas/quest (Bard, Cleric, Sorc/Wiz 6), programmed image (Bard, Sorc/Wiz 6). Are there any Open spells that I missed that I should be considering? How about NONC spells that I should watch out for? Something else that I have missed entirely?
Mommy was an Orc 04-03-07, 08:45 AM	I like the following spells for Unseen Seer: Listening Lorecall - Blindsight with enough ranks in Listen... Prying Eyes Unluck Stone Tell Beguiler: False Vision Greater Heroism Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells(obviously not that useful for you)
evilaustintom 04-03-07, 11:48 AM	I don't know if this will help, but it's a list of NON-WIZARD spells that the Unseen Seer could benefit from with Advanced learning... Divination spells to take as an Unseen Seer (non-wizard spells out of SC, PHB, RD, RW, RS) as of 3/12/07: - guidance (PHB) 0 level – get +1 to attack, save or skill check once. - know direction (PHB) 0 level spell – know true north instantly. - blessed aim (SC) 1st level – +2 morale to hit w/ranged attacks, 1 min/level. - detect animals or plants (PHB) 1st level – locate natural stuff. - detect chaos (PHB) 1st level – detect Chaotic. - detect evil (PHB) 1st level – detect Evil. - detect good (PHB) 1st level – detect Good. - detect law (PHB) 1st level – detect Lawful. - detect snares & pits (PHB) 1st level – detect natural traps, 10 min/level. - grave strike (SC) 1st level – sneak attack undead for 1 round. - omen of peril (SC) 1st level – basic good/bad divination-type spell. - speak with animals (PHB) 1st level – talk with animals. - vine strike (SC) 1st level – lets you sneak attack plant for 1 round. - augury (PHB) 2nd level – basic divination 30 minutes into future. - find traps (PHB) 2nd level – get insight bonus to search checks vs traps. - listening lorecall (SC) 2nd level – gain blindsense/blindsight, 10 min/level. - speak with plants (PHB) 2nd level – talk with plants. - status (PHB) 2nd level – know status of allies. - discern lies (PHB) 3rd level – sense lies of subject. - listening coin (SC) 3rd level – turn two coins into transmitter/receiver, 1 hr/level. - speech link (SC) 3rd level – you can verbally communicate with ally (a.k.a. lesser telepathic bond), 10 min/level. - weather eye (SC) 3rd level – predict weather. - commune with nature (PHB) 4th level – learn about surroundings. - divination (PHB) 4th level – get advice on future. - implacable pursuer (SC) 4th level – target of spell has a ‘tracer’, 1 hr/level. - commune with city (RD) 5th level – commune w/nature for city. - dream sight (SC) 6th level – send spirit ahead to scout. - find the path (PHB) 6th level – find shortest rout to destination. - stone tell (PHB) 6th level – talk with stone. - brain spider (SC) 7th level – like probe thoughts, but multiple foes, can be used in combat. - choose destiny (RD) 9th level – make all rolls twice, take better of 2, 1 rd/level. NONC - echo skull (SC) 5th level – see through the eyes of a skull, 1 hr/level. - find the gap (SC) 3rd level – one attack each round is a touch attack, 1 rd/level. - know greatest enemy (SC) 1st level – detect CRs of creatures in cone, 1 rd/level. - know opponent (SC) 3rd level – learn strengths/weaknesses of opponents. - lay of the land (SC) 1st level – instant knowledge of landmarks for 50 miles. - one mind (3 different levels of spells) (SC) 1st/2nd/3rd level – you and special mount gain bonuses, 1 hr/level. - sense heretic (SC) 1st level – item glows when w/i 100’ of evil caster, 10 min/level. - sense husk (SC) 2nd level – see or hear through animal, 1 min/level. - telepathic aura (SC) 4th level – you can communicate telepathically 1-way with all allies in 100’ radius, 10 min/level. - vision of glory (SC) 1st level – over next minute, get + to next save based on Charisma score. - zone of revelation (SC) 5th level – makes everything visible around you (including ethereal/shadow), 1 min/level.
LeeShort 04-03-07, 02:56 PM	I like the following spells for Unseen Seer: Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells(obviously not that useful for you) Doesn't he need one of these to qualify for SCM?
bitznarf 04-03-07, 02:57 PM	Doesn't he need one of these to qualify for SCM? I'm using a heightened legion of sentinels.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 03:36 PM	I'm using a heightened legion of sentinels. You really shouldn't be counting on Heighten for this.
bitznarf 04-03-07, 04:20 PM	You really shouldn't be counting on Heighten for this. If you are talking about possible table variation about it working as a prerequisite, this is a level of table variation I'm willing to accept. Not sure what else you could be talking about to be honest.