Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatSiron 06-13-07, 03:38 AM	I know this question has probably been asked before, but what's the best prestige class for a grey elf wizard with maxed int. I've been told Divine Oracle, Fatespinner, and Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil are all top choices. Are there any others anyone can think of?
_metz_ 06-13-07, 03:41 AM	Depends on what you want to do with your wizard. For example, if you wanted to be a Ship's Mage go the Sea witch. etc. Need more info :)
copper_wyrmling 06-13-07, 04:31 AM	Loremaster, Mage of the Arcane Order and Archmage all seem reasonably popular. Fatespinner probably wins the prize for benefits / prereqs though.
Lupo 06-13-07, 05:39 AM	I know this question has probably been asked before, but what's the best prestige class for a grey elf wizard with maxed int. I've been told Divine Oracle, Fatespinner, and Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil are all top choices. Are there any others anyone can think of? depends on your vision about WHAT your wizard should be :) all these three are the "obvious suspects" and add some "specialty" to your character. straight wizard is always a solid choice, you collect the bonus feats at 10 and 15 (most builds DO collect the bonus feat at level 5), you have your familiar get all the goodies, you don't "waste" one of your precious feats and some of your "not so precious" skill points for merely "qualifying" for something. earth dreamer (Races of Stone) is a nice 5 level prestige class, can be entered at level 8 and adds some useful gadgets. even if the class seems "un-elvish". ciao martin m.
copper_wyrmling 06-13-07, 06:29 AM	Ruathar can sometimes be nice for a couple of levels (you need access), Shadowcraft Mage is good for gnomes.
KarmaInferno 06-13-07, 07:03 AM	A two-level dip into Divine Oracle seems pretty damn popular for any spellcasting class lately. Every convention I go to, the place is lousy with Divine Oracles. -karma
Genghis Cohen 06-13-07, 08:07 AM	4 levels of Fatespinner offers a lot of benefit for very little cost. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is extremely strong, but requires 3 low utility feats. Two of those feats are also needed for Archmage, so that makes the entrance requirement less costly. Archmage also requires 3 low utility feats. I7V and Archmage have synergy. Divine Oracle is popular, but that not that strong (but better than straight Wizard) unless you get access to the Insightful Reflexes feat. It requires Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion)) Loremaster is a strong class that requires some high utility feats and one low utility feat. That low utility feat is Skill Focus (Knowledge (Any)). This means that Loremaster can have synergy with Divine Oracle. Ruathar offers nice benefits for no cost.
DuctShuiTengu 06-13-07, 10:44 AM	Rainbow Servant's nice, if you can manage to meet the special pre-req.
JamesMaissen 06-13-07, 02:58 PM	4 levels of Fatespinner offers a lot of benefit for very little cost. Ruathar offers nice benefits for no cost. Just a comment on the 'little cost/no cost' as part of the cost is taking the levels in these classes rather than in taking others. If they fit what you wish to do then wonderful. It boils down to what you want out of your wizard. Pick a theme or overlying goal and deliver upon it. Classes whether base or Prestige are about designing your 'archetype' or 'custom class' for your character. Don't gather benefits just to have them, but rather have them fit into a general theme and you will find that you get the most out of them. If you are in doubt then I would suggest the wizard5/DivO2/LoremasterX route as it keeps your skills focused on knowledges which, imho, is a big amount of what a wizard delivers to a table. Have ranks in every knowledge, and then increase some of the ones that help gather facts about creatures encountered. Use the Loremaster secrets to offset FORT and REF saves then work on Saves in general via MIC and spells (heroism is your friend). Stay out of combat like a wizard should and you'll have a very solid wizard archetype. One last note, while the DO/Loremaster route seems to have higher costs than say Ruathar or Fatespinner they really aren't things that you wouldn't otherwise do. The Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion becomes a wash with the Loremaster Secret granting a Feat later on (for better or worse depending on prereqs, etc) while the Metamagic/Item creation, spells known, and skills prerequisites are things that you would already otherwise have. Thus if the costs are along the lines where you would otherwise be going then they aren't really high costs for you. -James
GreatSiron 06-13-07, 03:28 PM	I guess what I really want is for my wizard to never be useless. I thought by being a min/maxed grey elf wizard, that everything I targeted would fail it's save. (Boy was I mistaken.) This is why I looked at Initiate and Fatespinner, both are control based. However, I'm told at higher lvls damage is what matters, since a lot of things have saves in the upper teens to twenties. (By the way, I do have access to Ruthar)
jstorrie 06-13-07, 09:26 PM	Greats: Loremaster: Great, but not very flashy, goodies in the first few levels. Leads right into Divine Oracle for a Wizard with Mystic Theurge feel, without the Mystic Theurge suck. Alienist: Bonuses to saves, free Toughness, neat little goodies, bonus metamagics. Great generalist class, even if you're not summoning-inclined. Ruathar: you can get in at six and use it to qualify for many of the PrCs that generally would otherwise require significant skill investment for a wizard to get into. Unseen Seer: Arcane Trickster, but better. Bonded Summoner: Utility wizards are less hit by the spell level loss. You'll still be casting Haste and Mass Fly, right? Fatespinner: If you qualify for this class and haven't got any other plans for your mid/high levels, Fatespinner 4 is a safe and high-quality way to go. May be overrated: Archmage: Requires a specific build to take advantage of the class abilities, otherwise may not be worth the feat investment. Divine Oracle without Loremaster: not enough bang for your feat investment. Mage of the Arcane Order: requires a dead feat to get into, which you could have spent on Alacritous Cogitation instead–which practically obviates the whole Spellpool. Would get as many bonus feats by just going Wizard up to 10. Seven Veil Initiate: Class abilities barely kick in before retirement–you could be cherry-picking Loremaster/Oracle at this point. Earth Dreamer: You're already a utility class; why invest in utility abilities that your spells already get you? Arcane Trickster: Unseen Seer, but worse. Avoid, avoid, avoid: MYSTIC THEURGE.
Drezden 06-13-07, 10:59 PM	No way. I have not met anyone who has played an Archmage in LG - and I have spoke with quite a few (in addition to playing one) - who regretted taking it or thought any other class would be better for the 2 levels you can take it in normal LG play. The archmage abilites are really, really good - with Mastery of Shaping topping the list. You do need to adapt your spell selections - but this normally involves being much more productive and being able to cast Area spells where you otherwise couldn't. No doubt there are feat costs involved and you can't take Archmage before 14th level, but the end result is pretty sweet. My list of other good Wizard PC classes includes: Divine Oracle (2 levels or 4) Loremaster (nice filler that synergizes with other PC choices) Fatespinner Init. of the Sevenfold Veil Daren NB - I went through the last conversion at 11th or 12th level and I spent a lot of time deciding exactly what PC classes to take and speaking with as many high level wizards as I could. After this is when I decided to go for Archmage, my original build was not headed that way. Greats: [snip] May be overrated: Archmage: Requires a specific build to take advantage of the class abilities, otherwise may not be worth the feat investment. [snip]
control freak 06-14-07, 08:47 PM	One of the best ones is Closed to even author use and thats malconvoker, at (i cant remember if its 9th or 10th) you become absoluelt broken you get +2 damage and +2 hp per hit die on each summon and you get another summoned monster AND you can summon devils and demons to fight for you and its not an evil act! evil acts=not so evil if you have unrestricted conjugation! but back to ALLOWED best PrCs but aside from broken closed classes I7V and arch mage, and fate spinner is very decent
Lomiat 06-15-07, 12:49 AM	Most of the decent arcane PrCs have already been mentioned, but just to play devil's advocate, I'll throw out the idea that the Elemental Savant isn't too bad either (until you'd lose cast progression -- at which point you ditch the PrC). The kicker with the Elemental Savant is that ALL your elemental spells have to shift to your favored type, which in turn means that you, as a blaster, can no longer blast the enemies immune to your favored damage UNLESS you have either the Sandstorm Searing Spell feat or the Frostburn feat that allows your cold spells to damage creatures normally immune to cold. If you can create one of those types of casters, the PrC becomes much, much better. Furthermore, Energy Substitution plays nicely into such feats as Born of Three Thunders, Lord of the Uttercold, and Energy Admixture -- all very nice considerations for the blaster mage. (Though admittedly the "blaster mage" isn't the optimized wizard...)
just_be_glad_now 06-15-07, 12:56 AM	I see jstorrie already grouped them into the good, the bad and the ugly, so I'll group them also, in a different way: I'll also only mention classes you can get into without giving up a spellcasting level. zero feat investment: Fatespinner: Sacrifices wizard knowledge: all. Gains spin, rerolls and slight of hand. Obvious breakpoints: 2 and 4. The PrC's considerable power was reigned in a bit, oddly enough, by the "Not this time" cards. With nothing more than a 10k ioun stone, the defensive rerolls become less necessary for a lot of players. Not obviously front or back loaded. Ruathar: Gains +1 hp per level, more skills and a better selection of skills including spot and search, +2 to sensory skills, 2 bab in 3 levels and good reflex. You lose only levels toward a wiz bonus feat. Obvious breakpoints: None. Not obviously front or back loaded. Mindbender: Gains some social skills, telepathy and 2 fort for your one level, which is all you'll take in almost every case. Effectively, you are trading lots and lots of skill points for 2 fort. Obvious breakpoints: 1. Front loaded. Wayfarer Guide: Gains Speak langage, ability to grab an extra person with teleport, and improved range. Obvious breakpoints: 1. Front loaded. Geometer: Gains some trapsetting abilities, cheaper spellbook, and a silent spell costing money. Obvious breakpoints: 3. Front loaded. one feat investment: Loremaster: Costs an awful feat. Gains it back later, along with often 2 fort, two ref. Also gets useful skills and the bardic check. Obvious breakpoints: 3, 5, 6. Back loaded. Divine Oracle: Costs an awful feat, but the same one as Loremaster, and loses knowledge all. Gains some cleric divinations, evasion, better rolls on divination spells, and some rogue reaction abilities. Obvious breakpoints: 2, 3. Front loaded. Elemental Savant: Costs a useful feat, and then loses the ability to use most energy, loses knowledge: all. Gains...spell penetration and some minor energy resistance? Riiiight. Obvious breakpoints: 4. Not loaded. ((Earth Dreamer: Don't have RoS with me)) two feat investment: Alienist: Costs a useful feat, plus a possibly useful feat for summoners, also the ability to summon the utility/casting summons is lost, as well as 2 wisdom, and all social skills. Gains spot, gather info, pseudo summons, +1 fort and ref, bonus meta feats at 3rd and 7th, 3 extra hp at 4th and 8th, extra top level spell slot for a summon, and eventually the transcendence effect. Also keeps familar progression and gives the familar an outsider template. Obvious breakpoints: 3, 7. Back loaded. Wild Mage: Costs an awful feat, plus a meta feat, so it really costs one feat, plus another feat for the necessary practiced spellcaster, plus has bad will. Gains on average a +1 to caster level, plus the defensive random deflector ability, and UMD, and good ref. Obvious breakpoints: 2, 6. Front loaded. Mage of the Arcane Order: Costs an awful feat, plus a meta feat, so really costs one feat, plus money. Gets the feat back at 2nd, gains a meta feat at 9th, gains speak language, and of course the spellpool at 1, 4, 7. Obvious breakpoints: 4, 7, 9. Back loaded. three feat investment: Initiate of the Seven Veils: Costs 3 awful feats. Gains wards plus some dispelling abilities. Obvious breakpoints: None. Back loaded. Archmage: Costs 3 feats, two are shared with the initiate. Only gets two levels in LG, often the two abilities taken are mastery of shaping at 14th level and mastery of elements at 15th. Many of the choices are worth considering, however. Obvious breakpoints: None. Back loaded.
Timlagor 06-15-07, 07:27 AM	If you don't drop any spell levels you will never be useless. You can't asume that everything will always fail its save. You can have a good chance of them failing and make sure that when they do fail they really suffer for it. Damage is very rarely a wizard's best option -though you should certainly prepare a few spells each day that can deliver it. Target your enemy's weak save (make that knowledge check!) and also use BUffs and NO-Save spells for those times when saving is just too likely. Ditto for SR/Magic Immunity.
Timlagor 06-15-07, 07:28 AM	Earth Dreamer has a hidden 13Wis requirement in it's pre-req feat.
Lupo 06-15-07, 07:30 AM	I see jstorrie already grouped them into the good, the bad and the ugly, so I'll group them also, in a different way: I'll also only mention classes you can get into without giving up a spellcasting level. zero feat investment: Fatespinner: Sacrifices wizard knowledge: all. Gains spin, rerolls and slight of hand. Obvious breakpoints: 2 and 4. The PrC's considerable power was reigned in a bit, oddly enough, by the "Not this time" cards. With nothing more than a 10k ioun stone, the defensive rerolls become less necessary for a lot of players. Not obviously front or back loaded. Ruathar: Gains +1 hp per level, more skills and a better selection of skills including spot and search, +2 to sensory skills, 2 bab in 3 levels and good reflex. You lose only levels toward a wiz bonus feat. Obvious breakpoints: None. Not obviously front or back loaded. Mindbender: Gains some social skills, telepathy and 2 fort for your one level, which is all you'll take in almost every case. Effectively, you are trading lots and lots of skill points for 2 fort. Obvious breakpoints: 1. Front loaded. Wayfarer Guide: Gains Speak langage, ability to grab an extra person with teleport, and improved range. Obvious breakpoints: 1. Front loaded. Geometer: Gains some trapsetting abilities, cheaper spellbook, and a silent spell costing money. Obvious breakpoints: 3. Front loaded. one feat investment: Loremaster: Costs an awful feat. Gains it back later, along with often 2 fort, two ref. Also gets useful skills and the bardic check. Obvious breakpoints: 3, 5, 6. Back loaded. Divine Oracle: Costs an awful feat, but the same one as Loremaster, and loses knowledge all. Gains some cleric divinations, evasion, better rolls on divination spells, and some rogue reaction abilities. Obvious breakpoints: 2, 3. Front loaded. Elemental Savant: Costs a useful feat, and then loses the ability to use most energy, loses knowledge: all. Gains...spell penetration and some minor energy resistance? Riiiight. Obvious breakpoints: 4. Not loaded. ((Earth Dreamer: Don't have RoS with me)) two feat investment: Alienist: Costs a useful feat, plus a possibly useful feat for summoners, also the ability to summon the utility/casting summons is lost, as well as 2 wisdom, and all social skills. Gains spot, gather info, pseudo summons, +1 fort and ref, bonus meta feats at 3rd and 7th, 3 extra hp at 4th and 8th, extra top level spell slot for a summon, and eventually the transcendence effect. Also keeps familar progression and gives the familar an outsider template. Obvious breakpoints: 3, 7. Back loaded. Wild Mage: Costs an awful feat, plus a meta feat, so it really costs one feat, plus another feat for the necessary practiced spellcaster, plus has bad will. Gains on average a +1 to caster level, plus the defensive random deflector ability, and UMD, and good ref. Obvious breakpoints: 2, 6. Front loaded. Mage of the Arcane Order: Costs an awful feat, plus a meta feat, so really costs one feat, plus money. Gets the feat back at 2nd, gains a meta feat at 9th, gains speak language, and of course the spellpool at 1, 4, 7. Obvious breakpoints: 4, 7, 9. Back loaded. three feat investment: Initiate of the Seven Veils: Costs 3 awful feats. Gains wards plus some dispelling abilities. Obvious breakpoints: None. Back loaded. Archmage: Costs 3 feats, two are shared with the initiate. Only gets two levels in LG, often the two abilities taken are mastery of shaping at 14th level and mastery of elements at 15th. Many of the choices are worth considering, however. Obvious breakpoints: None. Back loaded. the earth dreamer: costs one feat "earth sense" that requires con 13 AND wis 13 (con 13 is hard for elves; wis 13, has synergies with divine oracle and the arcane disciple feat), knowledge nature 5 ranks, spellcraft 10 ranks. looses most knowledge skills. the goodies come with level 3 - lesser tremorsense, level 4 - earth sight and level 5 - earthglide obvious breakpoint: take all five levels, back loaded earth sense: moderate to low useful feat, let one sense creatures in 20 ft radius with a move action, but only direction and number, no pinpoint. can be helpful for catching invisible critters in an area, cone or line. ciao martin m.
_metz_ 06-15-07, 07:53 AM	the earth dreamer: costs one feat "earth sense" that requires con 13 AND wis 13 (con 13 is hard for elves; wis 13, has synergies with divine oracle and the arcane disciple feat), knowledge nature 5 ranks, spellcraft 10 ranks. looses most knowledge skills. the goodies come with level 3 - lesser tremorsense, level 4 - earth sight and level 5 - earthglide obvious breakpoint: take all five levels, back loaded earth sense: moderate to low useful feat, let one sense creatures in 20 ft radius with a move action, but only direction and number, no pinpoint. can be helpful for catching invisible critters in an area, cone or line. ciao martin m. Earth Dreamer is Fantastic for Dwarven Clerics though (character wise) but its not that good for wizards. Clerics tend to have good con and wisdom, so its the investment of a feat for the ability to see through walls, swim through them, and some pretty nifty divination abilities. Its definitely not optimal - but not underpowered imo. My cleric of Moradin is about to take his first Earth Dreamer level and is looking forward to it. (Can only eb entered at level 8)
Lupo 06-15-07, 08:41 AM	Earth Dreamer is Fantastic for Dwarven Clerics though (character wise) but its not that good for wizards. Clerics tend to have good con and wisdom, so its the investment of a feat for the ability to see through walls, swim through them, and some pretty nifty divination abilities. Its definitely not optimal - but not underpowered imo. My cleric of Moradin is about to take his first Earth Dreamer level and is looking forward to it. (Can only eb entered at level 8) yea, definitely better suited for clerics. for wizards this will mostly work fine with dwarven and gnome wizards, their con bonus makes it easy to crump in the feat, and if divine oracle or arcane disciple feat is planned as well, the wis is not hurting either. overall the class is one that i would take as an example of "balanced" prestige classes, nothing for power gamers but a nice set of features and very "in character" for certain builds. ciao martin m.
Mommy was an Orc 06-15-07, 09:18 AM	Earth Dreamer is Fantastic for Dwarven Clerics though (character wise) but its not that good for wizards. Clerics tend to have good con and wisdom, so its the investment of a feat for the ability to see through walls, swim through them, and some pretty nifty divination abilities. It isn't that bad for Wizards. Cast some spell then move into the ground. As you can see through the ground, you'll know where you'll pop up. With a +6 Con amulet, you ought to have 7+ rounds of each of those when you use them. If you keep using them, there's a pretty good chance of having them both up for a couple of rounds in any given combat. Plus, you get the good Fort Save, Tremorsense, and Listen as a class skill. When you have a 14 Wisdom, Alertness, and maxxed Listen, you'll actually make some of those Listen checks. I've already noticed that I tend to make Spot/Listen checks despite not having any ranks in them(3rd level Wizard) Sure, not 100% optimal, but...Plus Earth Sense is pretty good with Glitterdust...
Genghis Cohen 06-15-07, 12:40 PM	[QUOTE=Mommy was an Orc;12735769]It isn't that bad for Wizards...QUOTE]I agree. It seems especially good for someone who wants a wizard with that feat (don't have my books at work) that gives an arcane domain access. Another strong prestige class, if you can get access to it, is Sacred Exorcist. D8 hit dice, medium BAB and some nice extras. On the subject of BAB, this is often overlooked with builds that have a lot of prestige classes. If you want to be able to hit with your ranged touch attacks, odd levels of poor BAB classes is not a good thing.
_metz_ 06-15-07, 01:09 PM	It isn't that bad for Wizards. Cast some spell then move into the ground. As you can see through the ground, you'll know where you'll pop up. With a +6 Con amulet, you ought to have 7+ rounds of each of those when you use them. If you keep using them, there's a pretty good chance of having them both up for a couple of rounds in any given combat. Plus, you get the good Fort Save, Tremorsense, and Listen as a class skill. When you have a 14 Wisdom, Alertness, and maxxed Listen, you'll actually make some of those Listen checks. I've already noticed that I tend to make Spot/Listen checks despite not having any ranks in them(3rd level Wizard) Sure, not 100% optimal, but...Plus Earth Sense is pretty good with Glitterdust... It can work, BUT you need to be after something like arcane disciple for it to be good to start off with, otherwise too many stats to manage. Elves probably shouldn't apply, great for Gnomes and Dwarves though. I aint saying it isn't great for a wizard, just if you want to be an Earth Dreamer, a Cleric would be an easier option. - Hence would go differeing class for a wizard. What would really help - As I have already said, is for us to know what you want to do with your character. As this discussion earth dreamer has just demonstrated, discussion of PrCs is a moot point if we don't know what you are after.
GreatSiron 06-15-07, 01:53 PM	I've been asked what I want my wizard to be. Simple. I want him to be able to be effective in combat without resorting to Split Rayed Scorcing Rays or sitting and buffing people. (I'd like to do battlefield control, but I don't know what spells to use or how to use them.) I'd also like to be helpful outside combat. Not just by being able to make every knowledge check in the book, (which I plan on doing, save for a few Locals whose regions I've never been to), but with my spells as well. I'm thinking Divine Oracle will be a help here, but I'm open to other suggestions.
jstorrie 06-15-07, 09:43 PM	Earth Dreamer is probably, ironically, best for Grey Elf wizards because of their bonus to Spot/Listen. It has good synergy with Magic of the Land, and as mentioned above, Arcane Disciple. That sort of layout for a generalist would be something like: Grey Elf Str 6 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 8 (beware of shadows...) 1 Wizard: Earth Sense 2 Wizard 3 Wizard: Arcane Disciple 4 Wizard 5 Wizard: Craft Wondrous Item 6 Wizard: Magic of the Land 7 Ruathar 8 Ruathar 9 Earth Dreamer: Quick Reconnoiter 10 Earth Dreamer 11 Earth Dreamer 12 Earth Dreamer: Arcane Disciple, etc.
ithardin 06-16-07, 02:36 AM	*tongue-in-cheek* Please don't take Earthdreamer from us Dwarven Clerics of Moradin... *sniffles* I was just beginning to feel special and now I'll have to deal with Grey Elf wizard Earth Dreamers... *Sigh*
_metz_ 06-16-07, 02:58 AM	*tongue-in-cheek* Please don't take Earthdreamer from us Dwarven Clerics of Moradin... *sniffles* I was just beginning to feel special and now I'll have to deal with Grey Elf wizard Earth Dreamers... *Sigh* As another Dwarven Cleric of Moradin Earth Dreamer <Hi brother!> I agree :P Elves should be prancing in trees or with books. NOT with stone lol... (Note this is in character not an elf bashing session, though I can do one of those if you like)
awroe 06-16-07, 08:08 AM	I've been asked what I want my wizard to be. Simple. I want him to be able to be effective in combat without resorting to Split Rayed Scorcing Rays or sitting and buffing people. (I'd like to do battlefield control, but I don't know what spells to use or how to use them.) I'd also like to be helpful outside combat. Not just by being able to make every knowledge check in the book, (which I plan on doing, save for a few Locals whose regions I've never been to), but with my spells as well. I'm thinking Divine Oracle will be a help here, but I'm open to other suggestions. Just make sure you don't loose any caster levels whatever PrC you take and you'll be fine. A better question to ask might be "What spells should I use as a Battlefield Control focused mage?"
Timlagor 06-16-07, 11:13 AM	Do Divine Oracles really need Wisdom? I thought it was only Arcane Disciple that needed it for the spells.
_metz_ 06-16-07, 11:19 AM	Do Divine Oracles really need Wisdom? I thought it was only Arcane Disciple that needed it for the spells. No they do not.
GreatSiron 06-16-07, 12:30 PM	Just make sure you don't loose any caster levels whatever PrC you take and you'll be fine. A better question to ask might be "What spells should I use as a Battlefield Control focused mage?" What kind of spells are good for control? I know what Grease and Glitterdust can do, but I've never used a wall, and mass concelment spells like soild fog just seem to make people angry when I use them.
Sieylianna 06-16-07, 12:39 PM	What kind of spells are good for control? I know what Grease and Glitterdust can do, but I've never used a wall, and mass concelment spells like soild fog just seem to make people angry when I use them. Web, evards, wall of X, slow. Ed
JamesMaissen 06-16-07, 01:35 PM	What kind of spells are good for control? I know what Grease and Glitterdust can do, but I've never used a wall, and mass concelment spells like soild fog just seem to make people angry when I use them. Area Control spells can be a double edged sword. Don't use any of them automatically or blindly as they can impair your party as much, or more so than the enemy. As this can be a function of area covered Druids tend to be the earliest culprits here. Entangle is a wonderful spell but there are times when dropping it down on the bad guys is giving them a defensive position that they wouldn't otherwise have. If you are going to be a battlefield control wizard you are going to have to think tactically. Part of that is getting on the same page with the rest of the party. You need to augment them and help define the battlefield to something that they would prefer it to be. A question in every combat you will have to ask yourself is what's the most important thing I need to do this round for the group. It may be dropping damage, throwing a dehabilitative spell, or buffing another character rather than throwing a control spell down. Just because you focus in one area doesn't mean that you can't throw changeups, unless you've voluntarily limited yourself. -James
just_be_glad_now 06-19-07, 10:29 PM	In my experience, about 90% of the problems people have with battlefield control can be eliminated with the following simple rule: "Whenever one casts a battlefield control spell, s/he asks, 'What would happen if I chose to only affect half of the baddies?'" The answer to this question (usually one of 'half the benefit', 'half is a better choice', or 'still doesn't help matters') usually gives not only info about how you should use the control spell, but also if. Brayden Glad