Born of Three Thunders Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Born of Three Thunders Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
delewobmesid
05-16-07, 06:59 PM what would be good build for a born of the three thunders druid?
solbergb
05-16-07, 07:33 PM well, as my first response was "cool!" ...lets see the basics

You need energy sub (electricity). There are lots of excellent druid energy spells to 3 thunder, and the daze downside is only at casting, so the damage over time spells (eg, call lightning) might work around that.

Energy sub means you also need another metamagic feat, and you can't take it till level 3 because you need 5 ranks of kn arcane. I kind of like extend spell - druids have a lot of good long-duration buffs. You also need to look in Complete Mage for the open feats that lower metamagic costs - there are prereqs but some may be compatable with 3 thunders and/or extend spell. There is also an evocation tactical feat that does interesting things when you folllow one energy spell with another that might be cool. Energy admixture is also something to consider.

Sadly Stormlord is out due to it needing 3 feats to qualify, 3 thunders being a 3 feat combo and druids being feat-starved.

A nonhuman druid would look like this:

1. extend spell (or your favorite, no-prereq metamagic feat)
3. energy sub (lightning)
6. born of three thunders
9. natural spell or craft wondrous
12. quicken spell?

If you are trying to lower metamagic cost, you likely need to be a human, and do something like this
1. extend, spell focus (or whatever the prereq is)
3. energy sub (ltng)
6. born of 3 thunders
9. (whatever the metamagic reducing feat is)
12. (natural spell? quicken spell?)

To go off on another tangent, I think a cleric with the right domains could do something very similar. But the druid spell list is likely better.

Now then - born of 3 thunders is very save-throw dependent, so you'll want a very high wisdom - 16-18. You'll be standing around dazed some of the time, so a good constitution is likely a good idea. Add int and dex to taste. I don't think you'll need strength for anything, your offense is in your zaps.

You probably won't wildshape much unless you're doing something like scouting with
a call lightning and "produce lightning" duration running.

I'm going "if only there was a druid that was a spont caster instead of prep caster". I'd kinda like to do this myself, but I've already got a cleric and a druid and that's about two too many prepared casters already for my taste (the cleric does a lot of domain spont type stuff, the druid is mostly a melee)
jstorrie
05-16-07, 10:08 PM I think Born of the Three Thunders is not that great for a druid, given how much you need to edge your saves up. It's best for a Grey Elf or Human wizard who can get those DCs up way high.
Japangirl
05-16-07, 11:34 PM A human druid or human wizard can achieve the same DCs. Only grey elves can bump it, and then it's by one.
clannagh
05-16-07, 11:41 PM what would be good build for a born of the three thunders druid?

AH :)
solbergb
05-17-07, 12:40 PM A human druid or human wizard can achieve the same DCs. Only grey elves can bump it, and then it's by one.

and actually, given that a human druid can use his human feat for spell focus evocation (or conjuration, depending on whether you want to use this for call lighting/flame strike or arc lightning) and get that DC back
jstorrie
05-18-07, 03:30 AM That's true, but a druid can't specialize in Evocation, nor does she get a bonus feat at 5 which frees up another slot for SF/GSF, and her prestige class options for upping DCs are worse. Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here.
magebeast
05-18-07, 03:49 AM That's true, but a druid can't specialize in Evocation, nor does she get a bonus feat at 5 which frees up another slot for SF/GSF, and her prestige class options for upping DCs are worse. Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here.

Works best for clerics, if they can manage the knowledge skill.
Timlagor
05-18-07, 06:06 AM Fatespiner helps the Wizards significantly.
solbergb
05-18-07, 12:46 PM . Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here.

I'm not so sure. Wizards don't have all the damage/time spells that let you do the boom without paying the daze cost round over round.

A druid with a born of three thunders call lightning storm would only be dazed the round after casting, which could be done out of combat. He'd have the option to force two "save or screwed" effects each round for no spell burn, plus do a small amount of damage.

This is interesting. It is in fact the druid spell list that makes a BoTT druid interesting. If I could somehow get the druid spell list on a character without all the other druid baggage (animal companion, wildshape and maybe even getting away from prepared casting) I'd be all over it.
JamesMaissen
05-18-07, 01:12 PM I'm not so sure. Wizards don't have all the damage/time spells that let you do the boom without paying the daze cost round over round.

A druid with a born of three thunders call lightning storm would only be dazed the round after casting, which could be done out of combat. He'd have the option to force two "save or screwed" effects each round for no spell burn, plus do a small amount of damage.

Three things here:

Wizards do have a significant number of damage over time spells. They just normally aren't the optimal damage dealing ones (i.e. Melf's rather than Scorching Ray).

Call Lightning Storm requires a standard action to call down the bolt, so there would be only one 'save or be screwed' effect each round. The follow up REF save for BoTT is only after the failing the FORT save and as such can't really be counted as separate. In your example the target would get a REF for half and then if damaged would get a FORT save against stunning (and if they failed the FORT they would get a REF to avoid being knocked prone).

The daze effect wears off at the start of your next turn just like any other 1 round duration effect. Some people look to ignore this, or misunderstand it. I'd speak up when it occurs so that the error doesn't propagate.

-James
KShaver
05-18-07, 01:32 PM Call Lightning Storm requires a standard action to call down the bolt, so there would be only one 'save or be screwed' effect each round.

He still has a move action left to bounce around an energy substituted flaming sphere.
JamesMaissen
05-18-07, 07:22 PM He still has a move action left to bounce around an energy substituted flaming sphere.

True, but so could a wizard.

-James
nobodez
05-19-07, 04:36 PM Two Words: Flame Blade.

Two More Words: Produce Flame

Two More Words: Call Lightening

those three spells are what makes a Bot3T Druid better than a Wizard. They are the damage over time spells, and nothing a Wizard has compares. Heck, Flame Blade is great because it forces the save(s) each round.

If you have the human feat you can sudden widen the Call Lightening to get a 10 ft. by 60 ft. vertical shaft of sonic and electricity damage, forcing even more damage.
Timlagor
05-19-07, 07:26 PM You seriously think Call Lightning is better than Fireball?
(in LG with its 3 combat's per adventure?)

Flame Blade puts you in melee doing damage that is respecable at low levels but falls behind soon enough.
Produce flame is also nice at low levels but you can't do this at low levels (3 Feats to get to BotTT) . BotTT is not good enough to make up for spending precious actions on sub-standard spells.

Chain Lightning is a good option though.
Iswald
05-20-07, 01:14 AM If you have access, Stormcaster PrC may work well. You do lose a caster level but, your caster level for air, water, sonic, or electric spells gains +2 caster levels (net gain of +1, I guess). At fifth level, you add sonic damage to your electic spells, causing a save to avoid being stunned. This would require targets to make 2 - 4 saves for each of your spells when used with BoTT. :)
Timlagor
05-20-07, 07:20 AM except that you lose a spell level and get 2 caster levels. That's not a good trade. (though other stuff could conceivably make up the difference)
UMiskatonic
05-20-07, 11:45 AM Arc of lighting would work very well, as would a substituted flame strike.

Those aren't such high level spells for druids, if memory serves.

And besides, I really like this idea in terms of bieng a cool idea overall. I might go this route even if it were -not- effective, just because it would be such great fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
delewobmesid 05-16-07, 06:59 PM	what would be good build for a born of the three thunders druid?
solbergb 05-16-07, 07:33 PM	well, as my first response was "cool!" ...lets see the basics You need energy sub (electricity). There are lots of excellent druid energy spells to 3 thunder, and the daze downside is only at casting, so the damage over time spells (eg, call lightning) might work around that. Energy sub means you also need another metamagic feat, and you can't take it till level 3 because you need 5 ranks of kn arcane. I kind of like extend spell - druids have a lot of good long-duration buffs. You also need to look in Complete Mage for the open feats that lower metamagic costs - there are prereqs but some may be compatable with 3 thunders and/or extend spell. There is also an evocation tactical feat that does interesting things when you folllow one energy spell with another that might be cool. Energy admixture is also something to consider. Sadly Stormlord is out due to it needing 3 feats to qualify, 3 thunders being a 3 feat combo and druids being feat-starved. A nonhuman druid would look like this: 1. extend spell (or your favorite, no-prereq metamagic feat) 3. energy sub (lightning) 6. born of three thunders 9. natural spell or craft wondrous 12. quicken spell? If you are trying to lower metamagic cost, you likely need to be a human, and do something like this 1. extend, spell focus (or whatever the prereq is) 3. energy sub (ltng) 6. born of 3 thunders 9. (whatever the metamagic reducing feat is) 12. (natural spell? quicken spell?) To go off on another tangent, I think a cleric with the right domains could do something very similar. But the druid spell list is likely better. Now then - born of 3 thunders is very save-throw dependent, so you'll want a very high wisdom - 16-18. You'll be standing around dazed some of the time, so a good constitution is likely a good idea. Add int and dex to taste. I don't think you'll need strength for anything, your offense is in your zaps. You probably won't wildshape much unless you're doing something like scouting with a call lightning and "produce lightning" duration running. I'm going "if only there was a druid that was a spont caster instead of prep caster". I'd kinda like to do this myself, but I've already got a cleric and a druid and that's about two too many prepared casters already for my taste (the cleric does a lot of domain spont type stuff, the druid is mostly a melee)
jstorrie 05-16-07, 10:08 PM	I think Born of the Three Thunders is not that great for a druid, given how much you need to edge your saves up. It's best for a Grey Elf or Human wizard who can get those DCs up way high.
Japangirl 05-16-07, 11:34 PM	A human druid or human wizard can achieve the same DCs. Only grey elves can bump it, and then it's by one.
clannagh 05-16-07, 11:41 PM	what would be good build for a born of the three thunders druid? AH :)
solbergb 05-17-07, 12:40 PM	A human druid or human wizard can achieve the same DCs. Only grey elves can bump it, and then it's by one. and actually, given that a human druid can use his human feat for spell focus evocation (or conjuration, depending on whether you want to use this for call lighting/flame strike or arc lightning) and get that DC back
jstorrie 05-18-07, 03:30 AM	That's true, but a druid can't specialize in Evocation, nor does she get a bonus feat at 5 which frees up another slot for SF/GSF, and her prestige class options for upping DCs are worse. Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here.
magebeast 05-18-07, 03:49 AM	That's true, but a druid can't specialize in Evocation, nor does she get a bonus feat at 5 which frees up another slot for SF/GSF, and her prestige class options for upping DCs are worse. Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here. Works best for clerics, if they can manage the knowledge skill.
Timlagor 05-18-07, 06:06 AM	Fatespiner helps the Wizards significantly.
solbergb 05-18-07, 12:46 PM	. Born of the Three Thunders works for druids, but it works significantly better for wizards. That's all I'm trying to say, here. I'm not so sure. Wizards don't have all the damage/time spells that let you do the boom without paying the daze cost round over round. A druid with a born of three thunders call lightning storm would only be dazed the round after casting, which could be done out of combat. He'd have the option to force two "save or screwed" effects each round for no spell burn, plus do a small amount of damage. This is interesting. It is in fact the druid spell list that makes a BoTT druid interesting. If I could somehow get the druid spell list on a character without all the other druid baggage (animal companion, wildshape and maybe even getting away from prepared casting) I'd be all over it.
JamesMaissen 05-18-07, 01:12 PM	I'm not so sure. Wizards don't have all the damage/time spells that let you do the boom without paying the daze cost round over round. A druid with a born of three thunders call lightning storm would only be dazed the round after casting, which could be done out of combat. He'd have the option to force two "save or screwed" effects each round for no spell burn, plus do a small amount of damage. Three things here: Wizards do have a significant number of damage over time spells. They just normally aren't the optimal damage dealing ones (i.e. Melf's rather than Scorching Ray). Call Lightning Storm requires a standard action to call down the bolt, so there would be only one 'save or be screwed' effect each round. The follow up REF save for BoTT is only after the failing the FORT save and as such can't really be counted as separate. In your example the target would get a REF for half and then if damaged would get a FORT save against stunning (and if they failed the FORT they would get a REF to avoid being knocked prone). The daze effect wears off at the start of your next turn just like any other 1 round duration effect. Some people look to ignore this, or misunderstand it. I'd speak up when it occurs so that the error doesn't propagate. -James
KShaver 05-18-07, 01:32 PM	Call Lightning Storm requires a standard action to call down the bolt, so there would be only one 'save or be screwed' effect each round. He still has a move action left to bounce around an energy substituted flaming sphere.
JamesMaissen 05-18-07, 07:22 PM	He still has a move action left to bounce around an energy substituted flaming sphere. True, but so could a wizard. -James
nobodez 05-19-07, 04:36 PM	Two Words: Flame Blade. Two More Words: Produce Flame Two More Words: Call Lightening those three spells are what makes a Bot3T Druid better than a Wizard. They are the damage over time spells, and nothing a Wizard has compares. Heck, Flame Blade is great because it forces the save(s) each round. If you have the human feat you can sudden widen the Call Lightening to get a 10 ft. by 60 ft. vertical shaft of sonic and electricity damage, forcing even more damage.
Timlagor 05-19-07, 07:26 PM	You seriously think Call Lightning is better than Fireball? (in LG with its 3 combat's per adventure?) Flame Blade puts you in melee doing damage that is respecable at low levels but falls behind soon enough. Produce flame is also nice at low levels but you can't do this at low levels (3 Feats to get to BotTT) . BotTT is not good enough to make up for spending precious actions on sub-standard spells. Chain Lightning is a good option though.
Iswald 05-20-07, 01:14 AM	If you have access, Stormcaster PrC may work well. You do lose a caster level but, your caster level for air, water, sonic, or electric spells gains +2 caster levels (net gain of +1, I guess). At fifth level, you add sonic damage to your electic spells, causing a save to avoid being stunned. This would require targets to make 2 - 4 saves for each of your spells when used with BoTT. :)
Timlagor 05-20-07, 07:20 AM	except that you lose a spell level and get 2 caster levels. That's not a good trade. (though other stuff could conceivably make up the difference)
UMiskatonic 05-20-07, 11:45 AM	Arc of lighting would work very well, as would a substituted flame strike. Those aren't such high level spells for druids, if memory serves. And besides, I really like this idea in terms of bieng a cool idea overall. I might go this route even if it were -not- effective, just because it would be such great fun.