Bright Sands Barbarian Needs help!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bright Sands Barbarian Needs help!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lostpike
05-07-07, 03:00 PM Ok so I am working on a barbarian from the bright sands and I dont know which way to go with him. I am currently at 6th level with him and dont know where i should be going with him. He currently is in possession of a +1 Keen Falchion and bracers of quickstrike.

Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 8
Int 8
Cha 8

1.Barbarian Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage
2. Fighter EWP: Great Falchion
3. Fighter Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion
4. Fighter
5. Fighter Improved Initiative
6. Occult Slayer Cleave
clannagh
05-07-07, 07:30 PM Ok so I am working on a barbarian from the bright sands and I dont know which way to go with him. I am currently at 6th level with him and dont know where i should be going with him. He currently is in possession of a +1 Keen Falchion and bracers of quickstrike.

Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 8
Int 8
Cha 8

1.Barbarian Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage
2. Fighter EWP: Great Falchion
3. Fighter Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion
4. Fighter
5. Fighter Improved Initiative
6. Occult Slayer Cleave

I am not familiar with Blazing Rage.

I play a similiar Brightsands character (though he has gone stonelord rather than occult slayer). He is currently trying to convince all of Perrenland that Joramy is actually not as bad as they think and that she is just misunderstood. Given that Joramy was the cause of the Blight that killed about a quarter of perrenland he is not meeting with great success.

Generally speaking the great Falchion D12 versus a normal Falchion 2D4 is neither here nor there once you are raging power attacking and are hitting for +30 static damage anyway. Basically the EWP feat ends up more a roleplay dip.

The other two feats I went with that were more a roleplay consideration were Blazing Berserker (immune to fire when raging) and Power Critical Great Falchion. My character will also go Improved Critical Great Falchion and possibly Improved Heat Endurance just to keep with the whole Brightlands theme. He will probably aslso make his great Falchion Vorpal just to continue with the critical theme. He has no rogue levels otherwise Telling Blow would be another good "in character" choice.
_metz_
05-07-07, 09:18 PM Hmm, there is a lot of retraining needed to turn this chap around. There is the inherent issue of roleplay vs Damage producing - you'll need to make a choice about those level 1 feats.

If you don't mind getting rid of them: (not much point in having rage based feats if you can only do it once a day...)

Eventually in the build you want weapon spec and melee weapon mastery too if you can get it. Also

perhaps:

1.Barbarian1 Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage
2. Fighter1 EWP: Great Falchion
3. Fighter2 Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion
4. Fighter3
5. Fighter4 Improved Initiative
6. Occult Slayer1 Cleave
7. Occult Slayer2 (change one of the lvl 1 rage feats to Power attack - trust me this is important)
8. Occult Slayer3 (Retrain Level 3 Power Attack to Improved Bullrush)
9. Occult Slayer4 (Retrain other lvl 1 rage feat to Extra Rage) Feat: Shocktrooper
10. Occult Slayer5 (Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialisation)
11. Barbarian2: Uncanny Dodge
12. Fighter5 Feat: Melee Weapon Master: Slashing
13. Fighter6 Improved Sunder
14. Fighter7
15. Fighter8 Combat Brute

This way you are a raging two more times a day, with plus have Weapon Spec and Melee Weapon Mastery, and the ever useful combat brute and shocktrooper.
lostpike
05-07-07, 11:40 PM It is supposed to be blazing berserker. Sorry about that. I really do like this feat and would like to keep it in the build as it is the main reason I decided to use this for my bright sand character.
bitznarf
05-07-07, 11:45 PM nvm..
King Kashue
05-08-07, 01:01 AM My character will also go Improved Critical Great Falchion and possibly Improved Heat Endurance just to keep with the whole Brightlands theme. He will probably aslso make his great Falchion Vorpal just to continue with the critical theme. He has no rogue levels otherwise Telling Blow would be another good "in character" choice.

It's important to note that Improved Critical does nothing if you're using a Keen weapon...

Also, a Vorpal weapon costs a minimum of 72,000gp, unless you've got some way to reduce the cost. If you get maximum possible rewards, that's every penny until you're half way through 10th level.
_metz_
05-08-07, 01:45 AM I think thats the idea.

My character has the same access and might buy it once at a very high level. (14 or 15)

Sometimes its not about practicality, but what is cool - I mean I have a pirate with a ship, and he'll probably buy another one for a spare (one for his cohort to command)
copper_wyrmling
05-08-07, 02:05 AM It is supposed to be blazing berserker. Sorry about that. I really do like this feat and would like to keep it in the build as it is the main reason I decided to use this for my bright sand character.

So make the tweaks a little less. Stick with occult slayer until you have all five levels, it's a nice class. Retrain Instantaneous Rage into Extra Rage so you can (usually) rage in every encounter. Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialization when levelling from 8 to 9, and then take Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) as your L9 feat. If you want Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper, take another two fighter levels after finishing Occult Slayer and pick them both up at L12. Reckless Rage might also be an option for you at L12 or L15, and Slashing Fury might be appropriate at L15. Have a look through the books and see if there are other PrCs that suit your character, for after you finish occult slayer. Put your remaining two stat-bumps into Strength, and have fun :)
_metz_
05-08-07, 03:25 AM That was exactly the first thing I thought lol. I just tried to work in Shocktrooper AND Combat brute lol. With just shocktrooper:

1.Barbarian1 Instantaneous Rage/Blazing Rage
2. Fighter1 EWP: Great Falchion
3. Fighter2 Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion
4. Fighter3
5. Fighter4 Improved Initiative
6. Occult Slayer1 Cleave
7. Occult Slayer2 (Retrain Instantaneous Rage to Extra Rage)
8. Occult Slayer3 (Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialisation)
9. Occult Slayer4 Feat: Melee Weapon Master: Slashing
10. Occult Slayer5
11. Fighter5
12. Fighter6 (Level 12 feat: Reckless Rage) Improved Bullrush
13. Fighter7
14. Fighter8 Shocktrooper
15. Barbarian2: Uncanny Dodge Feat: Slashing Fury
delewobmesid
05-08-07, 04:23 PM any reason to not take EWM:Uncanny blow?
bitznarf
05-08-07, 04:26 PM any reason to not take EWM:Uncanny blow?
Uncanny Blow doesn't apply to a 2 handed weapon.
UMiskatonic
05-08-07, 04:40 PM I really like Cleave as a feat, even in LG.

Imp. Critical will do precisely nothing, don't take it.

I think extra rage is FAR FAR better than instantaneous rage. I mean really, wouldn't you rather be raging all the time?

It's also time to spend some cash on defense. You'll do damage, don't worry. You need +1 armor, and a vest of resistance in a hurry, or you're just a Will save away from useless.

Stat bump items (+2) are a good move here as well, possibly a ring of protection +1.
copper_wyrmling
05-08-07, 05:26 PM I really like Cleave as a feat, even in LG.

Imp. Critical will do precisely nothing, don't take it.

I think extra rage is FAR FAR better than instantaneous rage. I mean really, wouldn't you rather be raging all the time?

To be clear... is your weapon a +1 keen great falchion, or an ordinary falchion? Are you actually using the exotic weapon proficiency? Certainly, Imp Crit is useless if your primary weapon is keen.

I'm not sure about Cleave: I've heard a lot of people say that they find it loses its usefulness as they get up to high levels. I haven't played a cleaving barbarian high enough to know personally, though.
King Kashue
05-08-07, 06:30 PM I'm not sure about Cleave: I've heard a lot of people say that they find it loses its usefulness as they get up to high levels. I haven't played a cleaving barbarian high enough to know personally, though.

I've got a BDF Grappler, who still whacks stuff a good amount of the time (damn Huge creatures). He does 1d12+20 before power attack (28 pre-rage str) and I've honestly only had Cleave come up six times or so...

I know when it comes up, since I don't have the feat, and every time I would get it and don't take the attack, someone says "What? You don't have cleave?" :D

I'm really liking Metz's build in post #9. That seems very effective, yet keeps the flavor the OP seems to already be going for.
copper_wyrmling
05-08-07, 06:44 PM I'm really liking Metz's build in post #9. That seems very effective, yet keeps the flavor the OP seems to already be going for.

*nods* It's basically what I suggested in Post 8, although if he's getting significant use out of cleave, maybe wait to retrain it until levelling from 8 to 9 (retraining happens after choosing your class but before picking feats, so you can retrain into weapon spec and then pick up melee weapon mastery at the same level, if I understand correctly). Weapon Spec is not a particularly fantastic feat: the payoff is Melee Weapon Mastery.

If you want Shock Trooper earlier, you can get it at L12, but that means either no Reckless Rage or no Slashing Flurry (neither are fighter bonus feats). That seems like a matter of personal preference.
clannagh
05-08-07, 07:19 PM It's important to note that Improved Critical does nothing if you're using a Keen weapon...

Also, a Vorpal weapon costs a minimum of 72,000gp, unless you've got some way to reduce the cost. If you get maximum possible rewards, that's every penny until you're half way through 10th level.

The character tends to collect multiple weapons and making them all keen is going to be pricey hence improved crit. A keen vorpal sword would end up something like +7 equivalent. Not that keen will help wiith the vorpal goodness its still only kicks in on a 20. The power crit will help with the vorpal though.

Vorpal is not that special in LG I have seen a number of AR's that give access to the whole table that Vorpal comes from, and as you point out it is only affordable by level 12 or so. Its just as a crit focused character vorpal is very interesting for him.
_metz_
05-08-07, 11:48 PM Yeah, I think its important to get reckless rage and slashing fury into the build, cos whilst you get shocktrooper late, it seems to be more what the character is after - angry. very angry, fiery angry.

ANd you'll be able to damage produce reasonably well all the way through.
lostpike
05-09-07, 07:50 AM Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I know where I am going with this build now. I will post it later today. Also, it is a +1 keen great falchion that he has.
clannagh
05-13-07, 09:28 PM Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I know where I am going with this build now. I will post it later today. Also, it is a +1 keen great falchion that he has.

Just a followup thats relevant to falchion users .. someone pointed out to me the other day the luck feat from scoundrel that lets you reroll failed crits .. though if you only have the one luck feat that ends up being once per day.
Timlagor
05-14-07, 11:19 AM Great Scimitar would give you d8 instead of d12 and let you get Uncanny Blow.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lostpike 05-07-07, 03:00 PM	Ok so I am working on a barbarian from the bright sands and I dont know which way to go with him. I am currently at 6th level with him and dont know where i should be going with him. He currently is in possession of a +1 Keen Falchion and bracers of quickstrike. Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 8 Cha 8 1.Barbarian Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage 2. Fighter EWP: Great Falchion 3. Fighter Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion 4. Fighter 5. Fighter Improved Initiative 6. Occult Slayer Cleave
clannagh 05-07-07, 07:30 PM	Ok so I am working on a barbarian from the bright sands and I dont know which way to go with him. I am currently at 6th level with him and dont know where i should be going with him. He currently is in possession of a +1 Keen Falchion and bracers of quickstrike. Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 8 Cha 8 1.Barbarian Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage 2. Fighter EWP: Great Falchion 3. Fighter Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion 4. Fighter 5. Fighter Improved Initiative 6. Occult Slayer Cleave I am not familiar with Blazing Rage. I play a similiar Brightsands character (though he has gone stonelord rather than occult slayer). He is currently trying to convince all of Perrenland that Joramy is actually not as bad as they think and that she is just misunderstood. Given that Joramy was the cause of the Blight that killed about a quarter of perrenland he is not meeting with great success. Generally speaking the great Falchion D12 versus a normal Falchion 2D4 is neither here nor there once you are raging power attacking and are hitting for +30 static damage anyway. Basically the EWP feat ends up more a roleplay dip. The other two feats I went with that were more a roleplay consideration were Blazing Berserker (immune to fire when raging) and Power Critical Great Falchion. My character will also go Improved Critical Great Falchion and possibly Improved Heat Endurance just to keep with the whole Brightlands theme. He will probably aslso make his great Falchion Vorpal just to continue with the critical theme. He has no rogue levels otherwise Telling Blow would be another good "in character" choice.
_metz_ 05-07-07, 09:18 PM	Hmm, there is a lot of retraining needed to turn this chap around. There is the inherent issue of roleplay vs Damage producing - you'll need to make a choice about those level 1 feats. If you don't mind getting rid of them: (not much point in having rage based feats if you can only do it once a day...) Eventually in the build you want weapon spec and melee weapon mastery too if you can get it. Also perhaps: 1.Barbarian1 Instantantious Rage/Blazing Rage 2. Fighter1 EWP: Great Falchion 3. Fighter2 Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion 4. Fighter3 5. Fighter4 Improved Initiative 6. Occult Slayer1 Cleave 7. Occult Slayer2 (change one of the lvl 1 rage feats to Power attack - trust me this is important) 8. Occult Slayer3 (Retrain Level 3 Power Attack to Improved Bullrush) 9. Occult Slayer4 (Retrain other lvl 1 rage feat to Extra Rage) Feat: Shocktrooper 10. Occult Slayer5 (Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialisation) 11. Barbarian2: Uncanny Dodge 12. Fighter5 Feat: Melee Weapon Master: Slashing 13. Fighter6 Improved Sunder 14. Fighter7 15. Fighter8 Combat Brute This way you are a raging two more times a day, with plus have Weapon Spec and Melee Weapon Mastery, and the ever useful combat brute and shocktrooper.
lostpike 05-07-07, 11:40 PM	It is supposed to be blazing berserker. Sorry about that. I really do like this feat and would like to keep it in the build as it is the main reason I decided to use this for my bright sand character.
bitznarf 05-07-07, 11:45 PM	nvm..
King Kashue 05-08-07, 01:01 AM	My character will also go Improved Critical Great Falchion and possibly Improved Heat Endurance just to keep with the whole Brightlands theme. He will probably aslso make his great Falchion Vorpal just to continue with the critical theme. He has no rogue levels otherwise Telling Blow would be another good "in character" choice. It's important to note that Improved Critical does nothing if you're using a Keen weapon... Also, a Vorpal weapon costs a minimum of 72,000gp, unless you've got some way to reduce the cost. If you get maximum possible rewards, that's every penny until you're half way through 10th level.
_metz_ 05-08-07, 01:45 AM	I think thats the idea. My character has the same access and might buy it once at a very high level. (14 or 15) Sometimes its not about practicality, but what is cool - I mean I have a pirate with a ship, and he'll probably buy another one for a spare (one for his cohort to command)
copper_wyrmling 05-08-07, 02:05 AM	It is supposed to be blazing berserker. Sorry about that. I really do like this feat and would like to keep it in the build as it is the main reason I decided to use this for my bright sand character. So make the tweaks a little less. Stick with occult slayer until you have all five levels, it's a nice class. Retrain Instantaneous Rage into Extra Rage so you can (usually) rage in every encounter. Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialization when levelling from 8 to 9, and then take Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) as your L9 feat. If you want Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper, take another two fighter levels after finishing Occult Slayer and pick them both up at L12. Reckless Rage might also be an option for you at L12 or L15, and Slashing Fury might be appropriate at L15. Have a look through the books and see if there are other PrCs that suit your character, for after you finish occult slayer. Put your remaining two stat-bumps into Strength, and have fun :)
_metz_ 05-08-07, 03:25 AM	That was exactly the first thing I thought lol. I just tried to work in Shocktrooper AND Combat brute lol. With just shocktrooper: 1.Barbarian1 Instantaneous Rage/Blazing Rage 2. Fighter1 EWP: Great Falchion 3. Fighter2 Power Attack/Weapon focus:Great Falchion 4. Fighter3 5. Fighter4 Improved Initiative 6. Occult Slayer1 Cleave 7. Occult Slayer2 (Retrain Instantaneous Rage to Extra Rage) 8. Occult Slayer3 (Retrain Cleave to Weapon Specialisation) 9. Occult Slayer4 Feat: Melee Weapon Master: Slashing 10. Occult Slayer5 11. Fighter5 12. Fighter6 (Level 12 feat: Reckless Rage) Improved Bullrush 13. Fighter7 14. Fighter8 Shocktrooper 15. Barbarian2: Uncanny Dodge Feat: Slashing Fury
delewobmesid 05-08-07, 04:23 PM	any reason to not take EWM:Uncanny blow?
bitznarf 05-08-07, 04:26 PM	any reason to not take EWM:Uncanny blow? Uncanny Blow doesn't apply to a 2 handed weapon.
UMiskatonic 05-08-07, 04:40 PM	I really like Cleave as a feat, even in LG. Imp. Critical will do precisely nothing, don't take it. I think extra rage is FAR FAR better than instantaneous rage. I mean really, wouldn't you rather be raging all the time? It's also time to spend some cash on defense. You'll do damage, don't worry. You need +1 armor, and a vest of resistance in a hurry, or you're just a Will save away from useless. Stat bump items (+2) are a good move here as well, possibly a ring of protection +1.
copper_wyrmling 05-08-07, 05:26 PM	I really like Cleave as a feat, even in LG. Imp. Critical will do precisely nothing, don't take it. I think extra rage is FAR FAR better than instantaneous rage. I mean really, wouldn't you rather be raging all the time? To be clear... is your weapon a +1 keen great falchion, or an ordinary falchion? Are you actually using the exotic weapon proficiency? Certainly, Imp Crit is useless if your primary weapon is keen. I'm not sure about Cleave: I've heard a lot of people say that they find it loses its usefulness as they get up to high levels. I haven't played a cleaving barbarian high enough to know personally, though.
King Kashue 05-08-07, 06:30 PM	I'm not sure about Cleave: I've heard a lot of people say that they find it loses its usefulness as they get up to high levels. I haven't played a cleaving barbarian high enough to know personally, though. I've got a BDF Grappler, who still whacks stuff a good amount of the time (damn Huge creatures). He does 1d12+20 before power attack (28 pre-rage str) and I've honestly only had Cleave come up six times or so... I know when it comes up, since I don't have the feat, and every time I would get it and don't take the attack, someone says "What? You don't have cleave?" :D I'm really liking Metz's build in post #9. That seems very effective, yet keeps the flavor the OP seems to already be going for.
copper_wyrmling 05-08-07, 06:44 PM	I'm really liking Metz's build in post #9. That seems very effective, yet keeps the flavor the OP seems to already be going for. nods It's basically what I suggested in Post 8, although if he's getting significant use out of cleave, maybe wait to retrain it until levelling from 8 to 9 (retraining happens after choosing your class but before picking feats, so you can retrain into weapon spec and then pick up melee weapon mastery at the same level, if I understand correctly). Weapon Spec is not a particularly fantastic feat: the payoff is Melee Weapon Mastery. If you want Shock Trooper earlier, you can get it at L12, but that means either no Reckless Rage or no Slashing Flurry (neither are fighter bonus feats). That seems like a matter of personal preference.
clannagh 05-08-07, 07:19 PM	It's important to note that Improved Critical does nothing if you're using a Keen weapon... Also, a Vorpal weapon costs a minimum of 72,000gp, unless you've got some way to reduce the cost. If you get maximum possible rewards, that's every penny until you're half way through 10th level. The character tends to collect multiple weapons and making them all keen is going to be pricey hence improved crit. A keen vorpal sword would end up something like +7 equivalent. Not that keen will help wiith the vorpal goodness its still only kicks in on a 20. The power crit will help with the vorpal though. Vorpal is not that special in LG I have seen a number of AR's that give access to the whole table that Vorpal comes from, and as you point out it is only affordable by level 12 or so. Its just as a crit focused character vorpal is very interesting for him.
_metz_ 05-08-07, 11:48 PM	Yeah, I think its important to get reckless rage and slashing fury into the build, cos whilst you get shocktrooper late, it seems to be more what the character is after - angry. very angry, fiery angry. ANd you'll be able to damage produce reasonably well all the way through.
lostpike 05-09-07, 07:50 AM	Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I know where I am going with this build now. I will post it later today. Also, it is a +1 keen great falchion that he has.
clannagh 05-13-07, 09:28 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I know where I am going with this build now. I will post it later today. Also, it is a +1 keen great falchion that he has. Just a followup thats relevant to falchion users .. someone pointed out to me the other day the luck feat from scoundrel that lets you reroll failed crits .. though if you only have the one luck feat that ends up being once per day.
Timlagor 05-14-07, 11:19 AM	Great Scimitar would give you d8 instead of d12 and let you get Uncanny Blow.