Build for my Dwarven Tank [Archive] - Wizards Community

Build for my Dwarven Tank [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GreatSiron
03-26-07, 10:57 PM I need help making an AC tank with my dwarven fighter. Instead of going on and on about what I want him to do exactly, I'll post his build so far:

Race: Dwarf
Alignment: LG

Str:16
Con:16
Dex:14
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:8

Lvl 1 Fighter: Improved Intiative, Weapon Focus(Dwarven Waraxe)
Lvl 2 Fighter: Power Attack

Now where can I go from here? I want to do damage, (Hense Power Attack), but I also enough AC to dodge blows. Any advice?
clannagh
03-26-07, 11:02 PM I need help making an AC tank with my dwarven fighter. Instead of going on and on about what I want him to do exactly, I'll post his build so far:

Race: Dwarf
Alignment: LG

Str:16
Con:16
Dex:14
Int:12
Wis:10
Cha:8

Lvl 1 Fighter: Improved Intiative, Weapon Focus(Dwarven Waraxe)
Lvl 2 Fighter: Power Attack

Now where can I go from here? I want to do damage, (Hense Power Attack), but I also enough AC to dodge blows. Any advice?

Deep warden - and the easiest way to qualify for Deep Warden is ranger levels.

But its not exactly an original build .. fighter/ranger/deepwarden (often with shock trooper and close quarters fighting) is kinda the standard dwarf these days.
GreatSiron
03-26-07, 11:56 PM But doesn't that mean I will be restricted to light armor? I mean I can overcome the not wielding a shield part of it with a lvl of Exotic Weapon Master (Exotic Two-Weapon Defense), but I'll lose the ability to wear good armor (I'll be stuck in elven chain, which I do have access to by the way).
clannagh
03-27-07, 12:16 AM But doesn't that mean I will be restricted to light armor? I mean I can overcome the not wielding a shield part of it with a lvl of Exotic Weapon Master (Exotic Two-Weapon Defense), but I'll lose the ability to wear good armor (I'll be stuck in elven chain, which I do have access to by the way).

only if you care about the ranger abilities ... if you are only taking ranger to qualify for two leveols of deep warden to use con for AC you might decide to wear mithral full plate and not care about ranger abilities

of course some ppl take ranger/barbarian/deep warden and wear mithral breast plate

the other dwarfy thing to do is to use one of the heavy dwarven armors from RoS plus the heavy armor feats and a tower shield
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 12:45 AM Yeah the armors from Races of Stone sound like a good idea, but the tower shield would interfere with my to hit, right? Isn't it hard enough to hit things at higher lvls anyway?
Akhamshyy
03-27-07, 01:49 AM Yeah the armors from Races of Stone sound like a good idea, but the tower shield would interfere with my to hit, right? Isn't it hard enough to hit things at higher lvls anyway?

Fighters come proficient with tower shields, so at least it's not a -12 to attacks, just -2. You'd need the proficiency feat to use an extreme shield properly, and take shield specialization to match the AC without the -2 penalty. If you're going fighter all the way that's doable. But you still can't use an extreme shield for cover.

Also keep away from deepwarden. Your build probably won't support it, and most heavy armors cap out at +2 dex bonus when they're mithral. Deepwarden can only add con bonus to AC up to the max dex bonus allowed by the armor.
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 02:40 AM Ok, since Deepwarden is a no go, what other prestige classes will help? I've done the math and on items alone I hit AC 33, and that's at APL 10-14. (Depending on if I find access to Mithrial for the Battle Plate.)

Mithral Battle Plate +2 (+11)
Natural Dex +2
Ring of Protection +2
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Tower Shield +2 (+6)

So what prestige classes, feats (barring combat expertise, I'm not smart enough to have it), or items will help out?
Akhamshyy
03-27-07, 02:57 AM Dwarven Defenders get all tanky.

Of course there is that weird +7 BAB requirement and taking the toughness and endurance feats. They also can't move once they set up the 'stance'. It could mesh with the exotic interlocking plate to give you an over-all AC boost of +6 while standing there, along with the stat boosts and save bonus.
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 03:03 AM That's a nice thought, but from what I've seen, most monsters of at least minor intellegence will move to an easier target once they realize they can't hit you, and there goes your stance.
Akhamshyy
03-27-07, 03:11 AM Good Karma. Burn luck rolls to redirect their attack to you if they could target you instead. As long as your ally is next to you and you've luck rerolls you can take the high rolls unto your own AC. Immediate actions though so once a round.

As far as Dwarven Defender, did I mention the +7 BAB and toughness requirements...:(
Alpha_Nerd
03-27-07, 10:16 AM Take the Dodge, Titan Fighting, Mobility, and Elusive Target feats. They're very good tanking feats.
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 04:03 PM Okay I've got this build in mind:

Fighter 1: Dodge (retrained) Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe)
Fighter 2: Power Attack
Fighter 3: Titan Fighting
Fighter 4: Dwarven Armor Proficiency Str Bump
Fighter 5
Fighter 6: Mobility, Elusive Target
Exotic Weapon Master 1: Uncanny Blow
Exotic Weapon Master 2: Exotic Trip Str Bump
Fighter 7: Heavy Armor Optimization
Fighter 8: Greater Heavy Armor Optimization

That gets me to lvl 10, any ideas on where to go from there?
Alpha_Nerd
03-27-07, 04:09 PM By that level you can afford a headband of intellect +2. I'd take 2 more fighter levels, picking up combat expertise and true believer at 12th and finishing up Pious Templar 3, getting weapon spec and melee weapon mastery at 15th. I assume you plan on using Mithral Mountain plate?
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 04:21 PM By that level you can afford a headband of intellect +2. I'd take 2 more fighter levels, picking up combat expertise and true believer at 12th and finishing up Pious Templar 3, getting weapon spec and melee weapon mastery at 15th. I assume you plan on using Mithral Mountain plate?

Yes, and that doesn't sound like too bad an idea, except that I want to avoid combat expertise, since I would also like to be able to hit things. I already have one character with the feat, and he's never able to hit anything while using it. I also mistyped on my stats, I only have an Int of 10.
Alpha_Nerd
03-27-07, 04:52 PM Shield Specialization is nice for another +1 AC. You definitely need to pick up Weapon Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery though.
DuctShuiTengu
03-28-07, 11:08 AM That's a nice thought, but from what I've seen, most monsters of at least minor intellegence will move to an easier target once they realize they can't hit you, and there goes your stance.

One trick I've seen used to get around this is Tenser's Floating Disk. Party arcanist casts the spell, you stand on the disk, and they fly you to where you need to be. Admittedly, it means someone else is in charge of moving your character where you want to go, and puts some restrictions on how far away from said Arcanist you can be, but... *shrugs*
GreatSiron
03-28-07, 04:13 PM One trick I've seen used to get around this is Tenser's Floating Disk. Party arcanist casts the spell, you stand on the disk, and they fly you to where you need to be. Admittedly, it means someone else is in charge of moving your character where you want to go, and puts some restrictions on how far away from said Arcanist you can be, but... *shrugs*

Yeah but that requires an arcanist with Tenser's Floating Disk, and I can count the number of arcanists I've played with on one hand. Same goes for clerics and melee types with an AC over 20. :weep:

Most people around here want to play things that hit for a lot of damage. Or archers. We've got archers too.
jstorrie
03-28-07, 07:33 PM Deepwarden is a wash because you already spent the points on a 14 Dex - Deepwarden is for dwarves who start with 8 or 10.

Straight fighter, with a dip in Barbarian, Monk and/or Exotic Weapon Master, will do. Shield Specialization is not great in and of itself (+1 ac for a feat? ugh) but is a prereq for the very good Shield Ward. Since you don't have the Int for Improved Trip, Shield Charge is a good idea. Shock Trooper and maybe Combat Brute will suit you nicely, and Shock Trooper/Shield Charge/Shield Slam/Improved Initiative is a very nice combination, especially if you get Boots of Speed or Boots of Striding & Springing. The standard Weapon Focus-Specialization-Mastery-Flurry chain will do well, too.
GreatSiron
03-28-07, 10:02 PM I'd like to take Shield Ward, more Touch ac is always a good thing, but there is no Shield Specialzation (Tower)
Timlagor
03-29-07, 10:47 AM Yeah but that requires an arcanist with Tenser's Floating Disk, and I can count the number of arcanists I've played with on one hand. Same goes for clerics and melee types with an AC over 20. :weep:

Most people around here want to play things that hit for a lot of damage. Or archers. We've got archers too.

If no one in your area is playing any of the interesting characters then why would you want to play a tank?
GreatSiron
03-29-07, 10:53 AM If no one in your area is playing any of the interesting characters then why would you want to play a tank?

Because no one else is. I already have a wizard, and I'm making a cleric for greyhawk ruins.
Timlagor
04-03-07, 05:56 PM Play a Bard :)
GreatSiron
04-03-07, 10:14 PM Play a Bard :)

Strangly enough, we have three people with one of those.
Southernskies
04-03-07, 11:51 PM I would suggest:

Knight3/Fighter4/Dwarven Defender X

Str 18
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 8-13 (if you try and slip in Combat Expertise)
Wis 8
Cha 6

1. Toughness
3. Dodge
6. Endurance
9. Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)

Ftr1 Shield Specialisation (heavy)
Ftr2 WF: Dwarven Waraxe
Ftr4 WS: Dwarven Waraxe

Knight gives you some extra AC, better HP at 1st level and the Knight's Challenge ability (1/day unless you get a better Cha, but still handy). Shield Ward if you can fit it somewhere (but with all those dodge bonuses, it can wait until 12th if necessary)

Alternately:

Kni3/Ftr12
Feats: Combat Expertise, Shield Specialisation (heavy), Shield Ward and all the offensive feats (WF/WS/MWM + power attack/cleave or even Improved Disarm finishing off with SupWF/SupWS) and Defensive Sweep at 15th level.
magebeast
04-03-07, 11:52 PM Strangly enough, we have three people with one of those.

Not really, if you've got a lot of archers. Archers LOVE bards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatSiron 03-26-07, 10:57 PM	I need help making an AC tank with my dwarven fighter. Instead of going on and on about what I want him to do exactly, I'll post his build so far: Race: Dwarf Alignment: LG Str:16 Con:16 Dex:14 Int:10 Wis:10 Cha:8 Lvl 1 Fighter: Improved Intiative, Weapon Focus(Dwarven Waraxe) Lvl 2 Fighter: Power Attack Now where can I go from here? I want to do damage, (Hense Power Attack), but I also enough AC to dodge blows. Any advice?
clannagh 03-26-07, 11:02 PM	I need help making an AC tank with my dwarven fighter. Instead of going on and on about what I want him to do exactly, I'll post his build so far: Race: Dwarf Alignment: LG Str:16 Con:16 Dex:14 Int:12 Wis:10 Cha:8 Lvl 1 Fighter: Improved Intiative, Weapon Focus(Dwarven Waraxe) Lvl 2 Fighter: Power Attack Now where can I go from here? I want to do damage, (Hense Power Attack), but I also enough AC to dodge blows. Any advice? Deep warden - and the easiest way to qualify for Deep Warden is ranger levels. But its not exactly an original build .. fighter/ranger/deepwarden (often with shock trooper and close quarters fighting) is kinda the standard dwarf these days.
GreatSiron 03-26-07, 11:56 PM	But doesn't that mean I will be restricted to light armor? I mean I can overcome the not wielding a shield part of it with a lvl of Exotic Weapon Master (Exotic Two-Weapon Defense), but I'll lose the ability to wear good armor (I'll be stuck in elven chain, which I do have access to by the way).
clannagh 03-27-07, 12:16 AM	But doesn't that mean I will be restricted to light armor? I mean I can overcome the not wielding a shield part of it with a lvl of Exotic Weapon Master (Exotic Two-Weapon Defense), but I'll lose the ability to wear good armor (I'll be stuck in elven chain, which I do have access to by the way). only if you care about the ranger abilities ... if you are only taking ranger to qualify for two leveols of deep warden to use con for AC you might decide to wear mithral full plate and not care about ranger abilities of course some ppl take ranger/barbarian/deep warden and wear mithral breast plate the other dwarfy thing to do is to use one of the heavy dwarven armors from RoS plus the heavy armor feats and a tower shield
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 12:45 AM	Yeah the armors from Races of Stone sound like a good idea, but the tower shield would interfere with my to hit, right? Isn't it hard enough to hit things at higher lvls anyway?
Akhamshyy 03-27-07, 01:49 AM	Yeah the armors from Races of Stone sound like a good idea, but the tower shield would interfere with my to hit, right? Isn't it hard enough to hit things at higher lvls anyway? Fighters come proficient with tower shields, so at least it's not a -12 to attacks, just -2. You'd need the proficiency feat to use an extreme shield properly, and take shield specialization to match the AC without the -2 penalty. If you're going fighter all the way that's doable. But you still can't use an extreme shield for cover. Also keep away from deepwarden. Your build probably won't support it, and most heavy armors cap out at +2 dex bonus when they're mithral. Deepwarden can only add con bonus to AC up to the max dex bonus allowed by the armor.
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 02:40 AM	Ok, since Deepwarden is a no go, what other prestige classes will help? I've done the math and on items alone I hit AC 33, and that's at APL 10-14. (Depending on if I find access to Mithrial for the Battle Plate.) Mithral Battle Plate +2 (+11) Natural Dex +2 Ring of Protection +2 Amulet of Natural Armor +2 Tower Shield +2 (+6) So what prestige classes, feats (barring combat expertise, I'm not smart enough to have it), or items will help out?
Akhamshyy 03-27-07, 02:57 AM	Dwarven Defenders get all tanky. Of course there is that weird +7 BAB requirement and taking the toughness and endurance feats. They also can't move once they set up the 'stance'. It could mesh with the exotic interlocking plate to give you an over-all AC boost of +6 while standing there, along with the stat boosts and save bonus.
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 03:03 AM	That's a nice thought, but from what I've seen, most monsters of at least minor intellegence will move to an easier target once they realize they can't hit you, and there goes your stance.
Akhamshyy 03-27-07, 03:11 AM	Good Karma. Burn luck rolls to redirect their attack to you if they could target you instead. As long as your ally is next to you and you've luck rerolls you can take the high rolls unto your own AC. Immediate actions though so once a round. As far as Dwarven Defender, did I mention the +7 BAB and toughness requirements...:(
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 10:16 AM	Take the Dodge, Titan Fighting, Mobility, and Elusive Target feats. They're very good tanking feats.
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 04:03 PM	Okay I've got this build in mind: Fighter 1: Dodge (retrained) Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe) Fighter 2: Power Attack Fighter 3: Titan Fighting Fighter 4: Dwarven Armor Proficiency Str Bump Fighter 5 Fighter 6: Mobility, Elusive Target Exotic Weapon Master 1: Uncanny Blow Exotic Weapon Master 2: Exotic Trip Str Bump Fighter 7: Heavy Armor Optimization Fighter 8: Greater Heavy Armor Optimization That gets me to lvl 10, any ideas on where to go from there?
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 04:09 PM	By that level you can afford a headband of intellect +2. I'd take 2 more fighter levels, picking up combat expertise and true believer at 12th and finishing up Pious Templar 3, getting weapon spec and melee weapon mastery at 15th. I assume you plan on using Mithral Mountain plate?
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 04:21 PM	By that level you can afford a headband of intellect +2. I'd take 2 more fighter levels, picking up combat expertise and true believer at 12th and finishing up Pious Templar 3, getting weapon spec and melee weapon mastery at 15th. I assume you plan on using Mithral Mountain plate? Yes, and that doesn't sound like too bad an idea, except that I want to avoid combat expertise, since I would also like to be able to hit things. I already have one character with the feat, and he's never able to hit anything while using it. I also mistyped on my stats, I only have an Int of 10.
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 04:52 PM	Shield Specialization is nice for another +1 AC. You definitely need to pick up Weapon Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery though.
DuctShuiTengu 03-28-07, 11:08 AM	That's a nice thought, but from what I've seen, most monsters of at least minor intellegence will move to an easier target once they realize they can't hit you, and there goes your stance. One trick I've seen used to get around this is Tenser's Floating Disk. Party arcanist casts the spell, you stand on the disk, and they fly you to where you need to be. Admittedly, it means someone else is in charge of moving your character where you want to go, and puts some restrictions on how far away from said Arcanist you can be, but... shrugs
GreatSiron 03-28-07, 04:13 PM	One trick I've seen used to get around this is Tenser's Floating Disk. Party arcanist casts the spell, you stand on the disk, and they fly you to where you need to be. Admittedly, it means someone else is in charge of moving your character where you want to go, and puts some restrictions on how far away from said Arcanist you can be, but... shrugs Yeah but that requires an arcanist with Tenser's Floating Disk, and I can count the number of arcanists I've played with on one hand. Same goes for clerics and melee types with an AC over 20. :weep: Most people around here want to play things that hit for a lot of damage. Or archers. We've got archers too.
jstorrie 03-28-07, 07:33 PM	Deepwarden is a wash because you already spent the points on a 14 Dex - Deepwarden is for dwarves who start with 8 or 10. Straight fighter, with a dip in Barbarian, Monk and/or Exotic Weapon Master, will do. Shield Specialization is not great in and of itself (+1 ac for a feat? ugh) but is a prereq for the very good Shield Ward. Since you don't have the Int for Improved Trip, Shield Charge is a good idea. Shock Trooper and maybe Combat Brute will suit you nicely, and Shock Trooper/Shield Charge/Shield Slam/Improved Initiative is a very nice combination, especially if you get Boots of Speed or Boots of Striding & Springing. The standard Weapon Focus-Specialization-Mastery-Flurry chain will do well, too.
GreatSiron 03-28-07, 10:02 PM	I'd like to take Shield Ward, more Touch ac is always a good thing, but there is no Shield Specialzation (Tower)
Timlagor 03-29-07, 10:47 AM	Yeah but that requires an arcanist with Tenser's Floating Disk, and I can count the number of arcanists I've played with on one hand. Same goes for clerics and melee types with an AC over 20. :weep: Most people around here want to play things that hit for a lot of damage. Or archers. We've got archers too. If no one in your area is playing any of the interesting characters then why would you want to play a tank?
GreatSiron 03-29-07, 10:53 AM	If no one in your area is playing any of the interesting characters then why would you want to play a tank? Because no one else is. I already have a wizard, and I'm making a cleric for greyhawk ruins.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 05:56 PM	Play a Bard :)
GreatSiron 04-03-07, 10:14 PM	Play a Bard :) Strangly enough, we have three people with one of those.
Southernskies 04-03-07, 11:51 PM	I would suggest: Knight3/Fighter4/Dwarven Defender X Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 8-13 (if you try and slip in Combat Expertise) Wis 8 Cha 6 1. Toughness 3. Dodge 6. Endurance 9. Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) Ftr1 Shield Specialisation (heavy) Ftr2 WF: Dwarven Waraxe Ftr4 WS: Dwarven Waraxe Knight gives you some extra AC, better HP at 1st level and the Knight's Challenge ability (1/day unless you get a better Cha, but still handy). Shield Ward if you can fit it somewhere (but with all those dodge bonuses, it can wait until 12th if necessary) Alternately: Kni3/Ftr12 Feats: Combat Expertise, Shield Specialisation (heavy), Shield Ward and all the offensive feats (WF/WS/MWM + power attack/cleave or even Improved Disarm finishing off with SupWF/SupWS) and Defensive Sweep at 15th level.
magebeast 04-03-07, 11:52 PM	Strangly enough, we have three people with one of those. Not really, if you've got a lot of archers. Archers LOVE bards.