Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jstorrie 01-02-07, 07:39 PM	In this thread I'm just going to dump any builds I'm working on; I like hashing out the numbers for some reason or another, even though I might not play each of these. If you have any suggestions on these builds I'd love to hear them. Bladesinger roles filled: tank (cork), mobile infantry, knowledge skills Elf (high or grey) 1 Swashbuckler Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus 2 Swashbuckler 3 Swashbuckler Combat Expertise 4 Wiz Scribe Scroll 5 Wiz 6 Ftr Combat Casting, Dodge 7 BS 8 BS 9 BS Mobility 10 BS 11 BS 12 BS Elusive Target 13 BS 14 BS 15 BS Arcane Strike Important abilities/tricks: self-buffing during combat at the APL8+ is usually not worth the opportunity cost of the necessary actions to cast; this build aims to get around that with Song of Celerity (Ex) and careful selection of swift spells like Critical Strike. Flaws to address: resiliency in the mid-levels due to reliance on light armor before Bladesinger AC bonus kicks in. ASF issues from CL4-CL8 limit spell selection. Damage is not all that high. Low Fort save. Some MAD (Int, Dex, Con.) Power Dervish roles filled: tank (bdf), mobile infantry, pure damage, battlefield control 1 Barbarian Improved Trip, Combat Expertise 2 Fighter Power Attack 3 Fighter Dodge, Mobility 4 Fighter 5 Fighter Weapon Focus: Guisarme 6 Dervish Elusive Target 7 Dervish 8 Dervish Spring Attack 9 Dervish Combat Reflexes 10 Dervish 11 Dervish 12 Dervish Weapon Specialization 13 Dervish 14 Dervish 15 Dervish Imp Toughness I've always been way more into Power Dervishes than Skirmish-Dervishes, Swash-Dervishes or Corellon-Dervishes. Not really an original build (Power Dervishes have been thoroughly hashed over on the general CO boards). Important abilities/tricks: standard tripmonkey at the low levels. No dead Dodge level (Dodge by itself is a high cost/low return feat expenditure; Mobility recoups the loss.) Very high damage output despite no Shock Trooper, but with equally high mobility and some variable combat options thanks to Mobility, Elusive Target, Spring Attack, and Imp Trip. Flaws to address: not many that I can see! Weapon Spec maybe be a poor use of the CL12 feat. Next to no non-combat ability, however. Radiant Servant of Azor'Alq roles filled: second-line fighter, healer, divine caster, anti-undead 1 Cleric (Azor'Alq) Extra Turning, Combat Casting 2 Cleric 3 Cleric Craft Wondrous Item 4 Cleric 5 Cleric 6 Cleric Sacred Healing 7 Radiant Servant 8 Radiant Servant 9 Radiant Servant Improved Toughness 10 Radiant Servant 11 Radiant Servant 12 Warpriest Improved Initiative 13 Warpriest 14 Radiant Servant 15 Radiant Servant Leadership Azor'Alq is the Radiant Servant candidate in my region. Nothing particularly original to see, here. I've chosen to go with Sacred Healing instead of DMM, as I find DMM-Quicken to require too much investment at the low levels. Important abilities/tricks: Sacred Healing equals money at the low levels by saving many, many, many CLW charges. Gets a lot of domains - Sun, War, Purification, Glory - but no Healing. Azor'Alq just doesn't have Healing. Flaws to address: loses one caster level to Warpriest, in return for a BAB, a mostly useless Rally ability, and another domain; not sure if this is worth the trade. Martial Bard roles: face, tank (cork), buffer, pure damage Half-elf 1 Bard Power Attack 2 Bard 3 Bard Weapon Focus 4 Bard 5 Bard 6 Outcast Champion Combat Expertise 7 Warchanter 8 Warchanter 9 Warchanter Improved Toughness 10 Warchanter 11 Warchanter 12 Outcast Champion Ironskin Chant 13 Outcast Champion 14 Outcast Champion 15 Outcast Champion Leadership I like bards that fight! Important abilities/tricks: Combine Songs for Inspire Recklessness/Ironskin Chant is very good, if there are other party members to make use of them. OC 5 / Warchanter 5 fit together perfectly with no dead levels. Flaws to address: some MAD (requires 13+ Int, 13+ Str, and Cha; will probably be one of those bunch-of-14 builds.) Skills complicated by cross-classing. Combine Songs will see table variation - some judges will say it's one standard action, others one standard action for each song (as the Seeker of the Song version.) Shadowpouncer roles: tank (cork), light infantry, battlefield control, scouting, grappling Human 1 Ranger Track, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip 2 Fighter Improved Initiative 3 Fighter Dodge, Endurance 4 Monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 5 Monk Combat Reflexes 6 Horizon Walker Defensive Throw 7 Horizon Walker 8 Horizon Walker 9 Nightsong Enforcer Staggering Strike 10 Horizon Walker 11 Horizon Walker 12 Horizon Walker Sun School 13 Horizon Walker 14 Horizon Walker 15 Horizon Walker Improved Combat Expertise Three of my favourite LG feats are Defensive Throw, Sun School, and Staggering Strike. This build is an attempt to use all three of them. Important tricks/abilities: Defensive Throw is very good at the low levels. Guisarme battlefield control tricks come into play at CL3. Sun School tricks are nice, and the ability to Dim Door to safety when scouting goes awry is nice. Flaws to address: cross-class skills, MAD. Shadowpouncing onto someone requires dropping the guisarme (to grapple, at least.) Low damage thanks to lack of Power Attack. Scout without trapfinding. Low saves.
Sieylianna 01-02-07, 09:41 PM	There is an issue with your cleric. Sacred Healing (Complete Divine) requires 8 ranks of the Heal skill and you don't qualify at 3rd. There is a new Sacred Healing feat in PHB 2, but AFAIK that book isn't legal for LG at this time. According to Britt in the LG questions thread, the circle will look at this when they look at the PHB 2. There is an issue with your martial bard. You can not take weapon focus at first level because you have a BAB of zero. For your shadowpouncer, I'd take the ranger level at 1st for the extra skill points, +1 BAB etc. I'd seriously consider one or both fighter levels before going into monk at 4th level. Ed
jstorrie 01-02-07, 11:35 PM	Thanks for the quick catches, Ed! Swapping CWI and Sacred Healing for the cleric isn't much of a problem. The martial bard can swap Power Attack and Weapon Focus too, although that does make the first few levels a little less optimal. I'll go ahead and edit those changes in now. I agree with you on the shadowpouncer levels, too; that solves some early-level AC problems by giving armor proficiency from the start, and eases up the skill requirements for Horizon Walker somewhat. I'm still not exactly sure how to end that build, though. Elusive Target is nice, but coming in at CL15 is kind of a wash. I suppose just finishing Horizon Walker would be best, given the skill points and not-terrible Planar Terrain Mastery abilities, so I will edit that build accordingly.
clannagh 01-03-07, 12:08 AM	Taking power attack with a BAB of 0 (so you cant use it yet) is a little unusual but rules-wise it works so why not. Given the reach of a guisarme why not whirlwind attack instead of weapon specialisation at 12 with the Dervish ?
UMiskatonic 01-04-07, 04:04 PM	Bladesinger roles filled: tank (cork), mobile infantry, knowledge skills Flaws to address: resiliency in the mid-levels due to reliance on light armor before Bladesinger AC bonus kicks in. ASF issues from CL4-CL8 limit spell selection. Damage is not all that high. Low Fort save. Some MAD (Int, Dex, Con.) All right. Consider the following: Swash3/bard 2/ftr1/bs 10 In terms of filling your roles, and fixing your flaws, it might work. 1) better HP, and light armor is ok 2) no ASF issues, at all 3) MAD isn't any worse, you don't really need CHA You'll have MORE skill points, especially so if you start with bard 1. This also gives bardic knowledge, which is really handy if you are the knowledge guy. You'll be a bladesinger who actually sings. That's cool, and it increases your damage (and everyone else's). Bard spells like inspirational boost and whirling blade are solid choices, and you'll be able to use CLW wands. Finally, bards can access some great buff spells, like haste, blink, etc. Good stuff to quicken.
Mommy was an Orc 01-05-07, 05:06 PM	Some notes: Bladesinger - why 2 levels of Wizard? You're trying to get Elusive Target, and Fighter 2 lets you get there by 9th instead of 12th. Radiant Servant - Warpriest isn't really worth it for the extra domain. Contemplative is likely a much better choice. Power Dervish - you're human, with likely a 14 Int, and therefore usually 7 skill points per level for the most part. How do you have no out of combat abilities? Martial 5 - why Bard 5? No bonus to saves, no real extras except some skill points and a Bardic music. Also, you want the 2nd level of Outcast Champion before moving so much forward. It really amps your damage with the fake smite usable 4 or so times a day. Watch out for stopping at level 5 - it is usually the worst possible level to stop at.
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 05:15 PM	Power Dervish roles filled: tank (bdf), mobile infantry, pure damage, battlefield control 1 Barbarian Improved Trip, Combat Expertise 2 Fighter Power Attack 3 Fighter Dodge, Mobility 4 Fighter 5 Fighter Weapon Focus: Guisarme 6 Dervish Elusive Target 7 Dervish 8 Dervish Spring Attack 9 Dervish Combat Reflexes 10 Dervish 11 Dervish 12 Dervish Weapon Specialization 13 Dervish 14 Dervish 15 Dervish Imp Toughness I've always been way more into Power Dervishes than Skirmish-Dervishes, Swash-Dervishes or Corellon-Dervishes. Not really an original build (Power Dervishes have been thoroughly hashed over on the general CO boards). Important abilities/tricks: standard tripmonkey at the low levels. No dead Dodge level (Dodge by itself is a high cost/low return feat expenditure; Mobility recoups the loss.) Very high damage output despite no Shock Trooper, but with equally high mobility and some variable combat options thanks to Mobility, Elusive Target, Spring Attack, and Imp Trip. Why not take the Expeditious Dodge feat from Races of the Wild? When you move 40+ ft. in a single round you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC against all attacks and can be used in place of Dodge for qualifying for feats/classes. Dervishes are highly mobile, so that seems like the most obvious choice to make.
copper_wyrmling 01-05-07, 06:11 PM	Why not take the Expeditious Dodge feat from Races of the Wild? When you move 40+ ft. in a single round you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC against all attacks and can be used in place of Dodge for qualifying for feats/classes. Dervishes are highly mobile, so that seems like the most obvious choice to make. The tradeoff is that it's very ambiguous how Expeditious Dodge works with Elusive Target, and it seems like a valid interpretation that if you have ED rather than Dodge, anything that applies to your "dodge target" simply doesn't work. I did take it with my dervish (falchion-wielding wood elf), but I'm not using a trip build and not planning on Elusive Target. Also, be warned: before you pick up dervish dance, Expeditious Dodge looks kind of silly - at one table, I ended up paraphrasing "I take a path that ensures I move 40ft, despite the fact that my target is only 10ft away, in order to activate Expeditious Dodge" as "I do the elven circle dance", much to the amusement of everyone else at the table ;)
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 06:21 PM	The tradeoff is that it's very ambiguous how Expeditious Dodge works with Elusive Target, and it seems like a valid interpretation that if you have ED rather than Dodge, anything that applies to your "dodge target" simply doesn't work. I did take it with my dervish (falchion-wielding wood elf), but I'm not using a trip build and not planning on Elusive Target. Also, be warned: before you pick up dervish dance, Expeditious Dodge looks kind of silly - at one table, I ended up paraphrasing "I take a path that ensures I move 40ft, despite the fact that my target is only 10ft away, in order to activate Expeditious Dodge" as "I do the elven circle dance", much to the amusement of everyone else at the table ;) That's a very valid point. I would say expect table variation on that one. The fact that Expeditious Dodge can be used to qualify for Elusive Target makes it up for debate. As for your second comment, we have a Scout/Bbn Spring Attacker in our area and he always moves 40 ft. even if his sprint attack target is adjacent to him. :D
jstorrie 01-05-07, 08:34 PM	UMiskatonic, I am definitely tempted to switch the build to bard! It does seem to solve a lot of problems, though it would introduce one tactical problem - a bard can't cast while singing. Still, the Inspire Courage boost does last five rounds after the song stops, so this could work. But there is the problem of Int synergy and of spellslots. The bard gets very few spell slots already, and this build wouldn't splurge on a Charisma cloak. Starting with 14 or 16 Int, on the other hand, it wouldn't be unreasonable to hit 22+, which is at least two bonus spells each of first and second level. So I am unsure. It might be better to go with Mommy Was An Orc's suggestion and cut a level of wizard for a level of fighter, instead. One of the main conceptual ideas with the Bladesinger build was not to waste actions by self-buffing, and aim to make the most of surprise round and/or first round actions; spending one on bardsong may in the end be counterintuitive, there, especially as the Bladesinger would need to get to a favourable position early with a minimum action cost in order to be a cork of any tactical importance. As for the Radiant Servant - Azor'Alq only gets three domains, meaning the only one that Contemplative could pick up is Good. I do not think Good is a very, well, good domain choice for most builds. The combination of Glory and Sun, on the other hand, effectively writes off most undead encounters. I do suppose you're right about the Dervish, though, MwaO; even though the Dervish skill list is not great, 7 skill points is easily Dance + 3 cc skills. That's still quite good. I don't think that Whirlwind Attack is a great use of a feat for a Dervish, though, clannagh. The situations wherein I'd ever use WA instead of Dervish attack are pretty limited. Getting back to MwaO - I believe that my original intent with Bard 5 was more spell slots, but you're right, that's not worth a level, especially in the critical playing-up-to-APL-8 point of that PC's career. Fighter 1 or Barbarian 1 is probably in order. Which do you think would be most useful? I like Brb1 paired with well-selected mithril armor, myself; am I missing some critically good feat chain I nearly-qualify for? I suppose Inspire Recklessness plus Shock Trooper could be a bit ridiculous, but the build has no pounce ability. Lachlarlan, I don't think Expeditious Dodge works properly with Elusive Target (sort of like how Sudden Strike qualifies you for Staggering Strike, but doesn't activate it.) Otherwise that would be absolutely perfect, I agree. Thank you all for your input so far! I will post up a few of the other builds I have been tinkering on when I have time to clean them up.
copper_wyrmling 01-05-07, 08:42 PM	Thank you all for your input so far! I will post up a few of the other builds I have been tinkering on when I have time to clean them up. jstorrie, would you mind if I also posted builds-in-progress here, or would you prefer that I started a different thread?
jstorrie 01-05-07, 09:17 PM	I'm going to have a bunch of my own builds in here, so it might get too cluttered. But do start one of your own, I'd like to see what you've got cooking.
jstorrie 01-17-07, 03:46 PM	We have the Dusk Lash operating in my region (Sultanate of Zeif) and I've been thinking it'd be neat to run an outdoorsy sort of criminal, like a smuggler or a horse rustler. What I'm thinking of is this (drawing heavily from a build some of you may've already seen me tinkering with on the general CO boards): Human 1 Ranger Track, Power Attack, Orc-Blooded, Favoured Enemy: Human 2 Monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 3 Monk Combat Reflexes, Hold The Line 4 Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting 5 Ranger Endurance 6 Horizon Walker Close-Quarters Fighting, Undeground Mastery 7 Horizon Walker Plains Mastery 8 Horizon Walker Desert Mastery 9 Nightsong Enforcer Staggering Strike 10 Horizon Walker Hills Mastery 11 Horizon Walker Aquatic or Mountain Mastery? 12 Horizon Walker Sun School, Shifting Planar Mastery 13 Horizon Walker Evil-Aligned Planar Mastery 14 Horizon Walker Cavernous Planar Mastery 15 Horizon Walker Leadership, Fiery Planar Mastery Orc-Blooded is from Dragon 315, and I suppose I could just play a half-orc straight up, but the skill bonus and lack of int penalty are attractive to a character like this that would be investing fairly heavily in ranger skills. Orc Blooded only gives darkvision 30, but Horizon Walker 1 still bumps that up to 120ft. I think I'd forego the reach weapon for a quarterstaff, for twf-flurrying (2h quarterstaff plus off-hand unarmed strike?)
jstorrie 01-17-07, 04:15 PM	We also don't have too many dwarves in our region, and I've thought of taking a stab at a classic-style dwarf - hard-hitting, super defense, forges his own weapons and armor. Originally I was aiming for a build combining Battlesmith with Quick Draw, Power Throw, and Rapid shot, for some mjolniresque action (and I'll get back to that soon I guess) but for the moment, here is the more typical Moradin-follower: 1 Barbarian Power Attack 2 Fighter Improved Shield Bash 3 Fighter Shield Charge, True Believer of Moradin 4 Fighter 5 Fighter Weapon Focus: Warhammer 6 Pious Templar of Moradin Endurance 7 Pious Templar 8 Battlesmith Craft Magic Arms & Armor 9 Pious Templar Weapon Specialization: Warhammer, Dodge 10 Pious Templar Mobility 11 Battlesmith 12 Battlesmith Elusive Target 13 Battlesmith 14 Battlesmith 15 Pious Templar Leadership Problem: periapt of wis and amulet of con take up the same slot, but are both important for this build! Hm.
Mommy was an Orc 01-17-07, 04:19 PM	Doesn't the Dwarf need WF to go into Pious Templar?
jstorrie 01-17-07, 04:22 PM	Yes! I must have edited out when flipping feats around. Let me update that to fix the problem...
jstorrie 01-19-07, 02:38 AM	In Zeif, we have a paramilitary organization called the Uruzaries. One of the neat little bonuses of the group is that an Uruzary can use Strength, rather than Charisma, to intimidate. The Uruzaries are essentially the heavy hand of a somewhat corrupt authoritarian government, and accordingly I've been thinking of running a brute-force thug, a 20-Str half-orc: 1 Barbarian Weapon Focus: Morningstar 2 Fighter Improved Shield Bash 3 Fighter Shield Charge, Extra Rage 4 Fighter 5 Fighter Power Attack 6 Fighter Intimidating Rage 7 Fighter Shield Slam 8 Fighter 9 Fighter Cleave, Three Mountains 10 Menacing Brute 11 Menacing Brute 12 Menacing Brute Staggering Strike 13 Menacing Brute 14 Menacing Brute 15 Barbarian Leadership I'm toying with dropping Menacing Brute for just more fighter levels, to free up feats for Reckless Rage and another Extra Rage, but the ability to keep a target shaken for more than one round (from Menacing Brute) is pretty appealing. Lack of 2H/Shock Trooper hijinx keep this character from approaching the massive damage levels, but it'd make a good disabler/tank.
jstorrie 02-02-07, 11:33 PM	A straight up Baklunish blaster-mage: Human (Baklunish) 8 14 14 8 8 18 1 Sorceror Draconic Heritage (Brass), Jinnbond (Fire) 2 Sorceror 3 Sorceror Explosive Spell 4 Sorceror 5 Sorceror 6 Sorceror Energy Substitution (Fire) 7 Elemental Savant 8 Elemental Savant 9 Elemental Savant Draconic Power 10 Elemental Savant 11 Elemental Savant 12 Elemental Savant Arcane Preparation 13 Elemental Savant 14 Elemental Savant 15 Elemental Savant Leadership Has fairly decent blasting effects for each spell level: 1 Magic Missile 2 Fireburst 3 Explosive Burning Hands 4 Blast of Flame 5 Explosive Fireball 6 Explosive Blast of Flame 7 Explosive Cone of Cold and the spells have decent DCs on them. Arcane prep allows movement and Pearls of Power. Very glass-cannon, but one of the few blaster builds I'd play (thanks to the added proning-power.)
jstorrie 02-03-07, 12:20 AM	My Bladesinger is actually in play now (currently at Swash2 - started with 18 Int, which makes the early levels a total pain) and doing well enough. A meta-org I'm putting him in requires Leadership, so Elusive Target is out. Really, though, a Bladesinger is going to have one of the highest Polymorphless ACs in the game by the time Elusive Target would have come into play (10 + 4 Dex + 6-7 armor (mithril breastplate +1-2) + 5 Int + 2-3 shield (mithril buckler +1-2) + 6 natural (alter self) + whatever from magic items = at least 33. Power Attacks are not going to be a serious threat. So instead, I'm planning on taking Practiced Spellcaster at 12th, so that self-buffs will last a nice amount of time. ASF is as it turns out not a problem, as most of the good swift spells are V only. Illusionist rather than Wizard offers a bonus spell, and save DCs for Bladeweave, Shadow Binding and Spectral Weapon are surprisingly good. Bladweave in particular looks very nice for a build like this, really allowing you to tie up one or more foes. Encounter-breaking if enemies try to flank you even, I'd say.
jstorrie 02-13-07, 02:52 AM	This set-up is for a pure 'DPS' rogue, focusing on two-weapon fighting. Telling Blow reduces reliance on flanking. The downside is fragility; this build needs to run 14/16/14, too, in order to stay alive. Human or halfling; halfling delays Elusive Target. 1 Rogue Dodge, Mobility 2 Fighter Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Rogue Telling Blow 4 Rogue 5 Rogue 6 Rogue Power Critical 7 Rogue 8 Rogue 9 Fighter Two-Weapon Pounce, Improved Critical Kukri 10 Rogue 11 Rogue 12 Rogue Elusive Target &c.
Crazy Boro 02-13-07, 08:05 AM	This set-up is for a pure 'DPS' rogue, focusing on two-weapon fighting. Telling Blow reduces reliance on flanking, and also adds some bonus dice (Skirmish, provided by Swift Ambusher and a Scout dip.) Improved Crit Kukri and Two Weapon Pounce increase the chances of getting these off. The downside is fragility; this build needs to run 14/16/14, too, in order to stay alive. Human or halfling; halfling delays Elusive Target. 1 Rogue Dodge, Mobility 2 Fighter Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Rogue Telling Blow 4 Rogue 5 Rogue 6 Scout Swift Ambusher 7 Rogue 8 Rogue 9 Rogue Two-Weapon Pounce 10 Rogue 11 Fighter Improved Critical: Kukri 12 Rogue Elusive Target 13 Rogue Power Critical &c. Swift Ambusher actually pushes you slightly above the sneak attack curve, though it only works when you crit. Kukris crit often, though. You'll need 3 levels of scout before you can take Swift Ambusher. The feat requires +1d6/+1 AC skirkmish and 1 level only gets you +1d6.
jstorrie 02-13-07, 10:44 AM	That is a good catch. Three levels of scout is too much for that build, so I'll pull Swift Ambusher out entirely.
Alpha_Nerd 02-13-07, 11:10 AM	I think Swash 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 4 is good for a "DPS" rogue. After those levels the build hops into Nightsong Enforcer. The build ends up with either 4 or 5d6 sneak attack and a 14 bab. Human 1 Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Iniative 2 Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse 3 Fighter: Dodge, Telling Blow 4 Fighter: Mobility 5 Rogue 6 Rogue: Power Critical 7 Rogue 8 Nightsong Enforcer 9 Nightsong Enforcer: Elusive Target 10 Nightsong Enforcer 11 Nightsong Enforcer 12 Nightsong Enforcer: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Nightsong Enforcer 14 Nightsong Enforcer 15 Nightsong Enforcer: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
jstorrie 02-13-07, 06:35 PM	Actually, now that CS is out, Rogue3/Swash12 is probably the best option: Human 1 Rogue Two-Weapon Fighting, Telling Blow 2 Swash 3 Swash WF: Kukri 4 Swash 5 Rogue 6 Rogue Daring Outlaw 7 Swash 8 Swash 9 Swash Imp Crit Kukri 10 Swash 11 Swash 12 Swash Power Crit &c.
Alpha_Nerd 02-13-07, 09:15 PM	Why Imp: Crit and Power Crit instead of Improved and Greater TWF? More attacks is better for sneak attack, and you can always get keen weapons for Telling Blow
Vanadium 02-13-07, 10:25 PM	Actually, now that CS is out, Rogue3/Swash12 is probably the best option: Human 1 Rogue Two-Weapon Fighting, Telling Blow 2 Swash 3 Swash WF: Kukri 4 Swash 5 Rogue 6 Rogue Daring Outlaw 7 Swash 8 Swash 9 Swash Imp Crit Kukri 10 Swash 11 Swash 12 Swash Power Crit &c. Would it work to swap around those levels? Swashbucklers don't really give you all that much as you level up, but rogues get you better skill points, better skill list, and seeing as you wish to remain in a base class for a long time, the Rogue special abilities. With Savvy Rogue open and a possibility, I'm thinking that going Rogue 12/Swash 3 would be a fair build. You trade 2 BAB for 4 more skills/level from a superior list, you get all the good things that Swashbuckler offers, and the possibility of two rogue abilities. You don't even lose anything for prerequisites, as Daring Outlaw only needs Grace +1 from the Swashbuckler, which they get at second level. Of course, going this route would ruin your attempts at getting Improved Crit, seeing as the Rogue-centric build could pick it up at level 12 at the earliest. Then again, you could just do as Alpha_Nerd suggests and drop the crit feats taking TWF feats instead, pick up a feat or two (you wouldn't need that Weapon Focus, and the Rogue-centric build wouldn't qualify for GTWF until 14), and take something cool like Staggering Strike in its place.
jstorrie 02-14-07, 01:25 AM	If the build is focusing on melee, I think Swashbuckler levels - with their d10 dice - are a much better idea than Rogue levels. But given some thought, I think that Power Crit requires too much (well, Weapon Focus.) ITWF and Two-Weapon Charge are probably a better idea.
jstorrie 02-14-07, 09:53 PM	Breaking Unseen Seer is, unfortunately, pretty easy: Human (Baklunish) 1 Sorceror Draconic Heritage, Draconic Power 2 Scout 3 Scout Practiced Spellcaster: Sorceror 4 Sorceror 5 Scout 6 Unseen Seer Improved Skirmish 7 Unseen Seer Silent Spell 8 Unseen Seer &c. You're down -3 from multiclassing, and another -1 to -3 from Unseen Seer on non-divinations. Practiced Spellcaster and Draconic Power negate five of those, and the sixth only comes in at 14, anyway. Hopefully you will have access to a CL-boosting feat or item by then. This means that you can zip around dealing ridiculous blasts with skirmish dice; your skirmish dice would be 1-5 +1d6 6-9 +4d6 9-12 +5d6 15 +6d6 With no lost caster levels, that is some pretty decent blasting. I'm not big on blasting, but you shoot way above the curve the moment you hit level 6, here. Having Unseen Seer qualify you for Improved Skirmish means your level 6 blasting spell of choice is likely doing 10d6 damage. Once you're high enough level to cast Improved Invisibility, Spellwarp Sniper becomes very attractive. This would, unfortunately, require a nonspellcasting dip. In terms of sheer one-target blasting damage I think this would reign supreme.
copper_wyrmling 02-14-07, 10:45 PM	Breaking Unseen Seer is, unfortunately, pretty easy: Human (Baklunish) 1 Sorceror Draconic Heritage, Draconic Power 2 Scout 3 Scout Practiced Spellcaster: Sorceror 4 Sorceror 5 Scout 6 Unseen Seer Improved Skirmish 7 Unseen Seer Silent Spell 8 Unseen Seer &c. You're down -3 from multiclassing, and another -1 to -3 from Unseen Seer on non-divinations. Practiced Spellcaster and Draconic Power negate five of those, and the sixth only comes in at 14, anyway. Hopefully you will have access to a CL-boosting feat or item by then. This means that you can zip around dealing ridiculous blasts with skirmish dice; your skirmish dice would be 1-5 +1d6 6-9 +4d6 9-12 +5d6 15 +6d6 With no lost caster levels, that is some pretty decent blasting. I'm not big on blasting, but you shoot way above the curve the moment you hit level 6, here. Having Unseen Seer qualify you for Improved Skirmish means your level 6 blasting spell of choice is likely doing 10d6 damage. Once you're high enough level to cast Improved Invisibility, Spellwarp Sniper becomes very attractive. This would, unfortunately, require a nonspellcasting dip. In terms of sheer one-target blasting damage I think this would reign supreme. I think you're underestimating the effect of the lost spellcasting levels: at L6 you still only have first-level spells (even though your caster level is 6), so doing 10d6 is going to be hard (about the best I can see is 3d8+4d6 with a lesser orb, average 27.5, just a little below what a L6 sorcerer with brass draconic heritage and draconic power does with a scorching ray). At L8, you have second-level spells, and thus can cast scorching rays that do 12d6 damage (8d6 base + 4d6 skirmish), but a single-class sorcerer can throw empowered scorching rays at that point. It's an interesting skilful caster build, but I don't think it's significantly above the curve as a blaster, unless I'm missing something.
jstorrie 02-14-07, 11:24 PM	Actually, given the feat cost and delayed spellcasting, it'd probably be best to dump Draconic Power and just go Wizard. That'll give more synergy with trapfinding, anyway, giving a 1 Scout Feat (+human bonus feat) 2 Scout 3 Wizard Practiced Spellcaster Wizard, Scribe Scroll 4 Scout 5 Wizard 6 Unseen Seer Improved Skirmish 7 Unseen Seer 8 Unseen Seer 9 Unseen Seer Reserve Feat The lost spellcasting levels hurt a wizard less than a sorceror, and correct the no-Scorching-Ray problem. A 10d6 Scorching Ray at 6 is just above what a Wizard could normally drop with Empower, and in trade you get trapfinding. Rogue 1 / Caster 14 is better for straight up trapfinder wizardry, but if you really want to blast, Unseen Seer Skirmisher is the way to go, I think.
Mommy was an Orc 02-15-07, 09:40 AM	I think Scout 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10 works better for that - you do lose the +2d6 from Improved Skirmish, but on the other hand, you just need the one Practiced Spellcaster feat. At 8th, you too are tossing Empowered Scorching Rays that get a bonus of +2d6 damage that Sorcerers don't get. But more importantly, you're a primary spellcaster. With retraining, this is easily done, otherwise you need to be an 18 Int human/20 Int Grey Elf.
jstorrie 02-27-07, 02:51 AM	I've been trying to make Spellwarp Sniper work all weekend. Here is one of my ideas: Human 1 Rogue Spell Focus: Evocation, Metamagic School Focus 2 Sorceror 3 Sorceror Empower Spell 4 Sorceror 5 Sorceror 6 Unseen Seer Split Ray 7 Unseen Seer 8 Spellwarp Sniper 9 Spellwarp Sniper Rapid Metamagic 10 Spellwarp Sniper 11 Spellwarp Sniper 12 Spellwarp Sniper Piercing Evocation 13 Arcane Trickster 14 Arcane Trickster 15 Arcane Trickster Leadership Split Ray plus Metamagic School Focus is essentially +1-adjustment Quicken for any spell 1-5, but the mechanics of Spellwarp are weird. Spellwarped Fireburst/Greater Fireburst seem like very nice blasting spells, though, and Split Spellwarped Greater Fireburst is a competitive move at APL12/14, with (casterlevel-1 x d10) + 4d6 twice over. Another 597 arcanist I was toying with was a simpler party-buffer - Human 1 Transmuter Extend Spell, Metamagic School Focus 2 Transmuter 3 Transmuter Chain Spell 4 Transmuter 5 Transmuter Craft Wondrous Item 6 Transmuter Magic of the Land 7 Transmuter 8 Transmuter 9 Transmuter Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) 10 Transmuter Quicken Spell 11 Divine Oracle 12 Divine Oracle Improved Initiative 13 Loremaster 14 Loremaster 15 Loremaster Lucky Start, Survivor's Luck The main aim here is economical Chained party buffs, including Chain Enlarge Person and Chain MW at level 3, Chain Darkvision, Chain stat buffs, and Chain Spider Climb at 5, and Chain Fly and Chain GMW at 7. Chain Fly is particularly attractive, since you'd get it two levels earlier than Mass Fly is normally available. Chain MW is definitely a nice pick for APL 2/4, when incorporeal or dr/magic foes have a tendency to wreck the ill-prepared, although Chain Enlarge totally kills at that APL too. The ability to stabilize party members by dropping a haste or whatever is also very nice. Quickened low-level buffs make for great ranged stabilizers at the high APLs.
Mattastrophic 02-27-07, 02:40 PM	All right. Consider the following: Swash3/bard 2/ftr1/bs 10 In terms of filling your roles, and fixing your flaws, it might work. 1) better HP, and light armor is ok 2) no ASF issues, at all 3) MAD isn't any worse, you don't really need CHA You'll have MORE skill points, especially so if you start with bard 1. This also gives bardic knowledge, which is really handy if you are the knowledge guy. You'll be a bladesinger who actually sings. That's cool, and it increases your damage (and everyone else's). Bard spells like inspirational boost and whirling blade are solid choices, and you'll be able to use CLW wands. Finally, bards can access some great buff spells, like haste, blink, etc. Good stuff to quicken. One small problem... that build doesn't get Haste until 15th. You'd be better off with Bard4/Ftr1/Spellsword1/BladesingerRest I've been kicking around a few Bladesinger builds of my own... here's one... High Elf 15 Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 1-Ftr-Expertise,WpnFocus(longsword) 2-Ftr-Dodge 3-Wiz-Scribe Scroll, Combat Casting 4-Wiz 5-Wiz 6-Wiz-Craft Wondrous Item 7-Spellsword 8-Bladesinger 9-Bladesinger - Arcane Strike and I haven't gone farther. The original idea was to mix in Bladesinger, Abjurant Champion, and Dervish, but nowadays I'm a step away from just scrapping it and going Ftr1/Wiz5/EldritchKnight1/Spellsword1/EKRest -Matt
copper_wyrmling 02-27-07, 05:32 PM	I've been trying to make Spellwarp Sniper work all weekend. Here is one of my ideas: Human 1 Rogue Spell Focus: Evocation, Metamagic School Focus 2 Sorceror 3 Sorceror Empower Spell 4 Sorceror 5 Sorceror 6 Unseen Seer Split Ray 7 Unseen Seer 8 Spellwarp Sniper 9 Spellwarp Sniper Rapid Metamagic 10 Spellwarp Sniper 11 Spellwarp Sniper 12 Spellwarp Sniper Piercing Evocation 13 Arcane Trickster 14 Arcane Trickster 15 Arcane Trickster Leadership Split Ray plus Metamagic School Focus is essentially +1-adjustment Quicken for any spell 1-5, but the mechanics of Spellwarp are weird. Spellwarped Fireburst/Greater Fireburst seem like very nice blasting spells, though, and Split Spellwarped Greater Fireburst is a competitive move at APL12/14, with (casterlevel-1 x d10) + 4d6 twice over. I've been playing with similar builds. Unfortunately, Greater Fireburst is an Effect spell, not Area, so spellwarp probably doesn't work on it :weep: (I didn't believe it when somebody said this, but having checked the spell description, they were right...) Also, Split Ray won't give you a second helping of sneak attack: it adds a ray to the spell, and thus follows the rules for multi-ray spells like scorching ray, with sneak attack once / spell. Piercing Evocation seems almost entirely worthless to me - it lets you ensure that 10 points of damage / spell get through. Yay, a whole 10 points... :mad: Am I misreading it?
jstorrie 02-27-07, 05:39 PM	The only real use for it would be ensuring you could sneak/sudden something that had lots of immunities. It's optional.
Vanadium 02-27-07, 07:31 PM	The main aim here is economical Chained party buffs, including Chain Enlarge Person and Chain MW at level 3, Chain Darkvision, Chain stat buffs, and Chain Spider Climb at 5, and Chain Fly and Chain GMW at 7. Chain Fly is particularly attractive, since you'd get it two levels earlier than Mass Fly is normally available. Chain MW is definitely a nice pick for APL 2/4, when incorporeal or dr/magic foes have a tendency to wreck the ill-prepared, although Chain Enlarge totally kills at that APL too. The ability to stabilize party members by dropping a haste or whatever is also very nice. Quickened low-level buffs make for great ranged stabilizers at the high APLs. I think I might be misremembering something, but I don't think this works as well as you'd like, or even if it works at all. First off, Chain Spell has an adjustment of 3 and the School Focus would knock that down to 2. Thus, you can't chain level one spells until you have third level spells. Secondly, Chain from what I remember can't be used on spells with the range of 'touch'. Fly, Darkvision, and Spider Climb, as well as a lot of other Transmutations, have a range of touch. I think there are only a few noteworthy transmutations that don't, like the Magic Weapon series and Enlarge Person. I'm not so sure about the top one, but I'm fairly sure about the bottom. Sorry if this is true and the build is more or less ruined. I mean, your whole intent was to chain buffs, right? Then again, there is always War Weaver, but that's NONC, and thus not something one should base a build off of.
jstorrie 02-28-07, 06:13 PM	I'm not sure how I missed that chain was +3, not +2, but you are correct. There isn't really a point in taking chain when all of the 'mass' buffs are normally +2 anyway, but free Reach is a fair alternative.
jstorrie 03-07-07, 11:18 PM	Stone Form is a pretty decent Wild Shape replacement, now that shifting into other forms removes your gear. I've been toying with the basic skeleton of a build, along these lines: 1 Druid: feat, human bonus feat? 2 Druid 3 Druid: feat 4 Druid 5 Druid 6 Druid: Stone Form 7 Nature's Warrior: Earth's Resilience 8 Nature's Warrior 9 Nature's Warrior: Armor of the Crocodile, feat 10 Warshaper 11 Warshaper 12 Warshaper: feat 13 Warshaper 14 Nature's Warrior 15 Nature's Warrior: Nature's Weapon, feat There are a few ways to take this. You could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency in a reach weapon and Improved Trip, to battlefield control to 20ft. You could take Tower Shield Proficiency and sword-and-board it with a scimitar. Heavy Armor Proficiency is a pretty good idea - you can wear Stone Plate until you find something better and druid-friendly (like dragonhide, if you're lucky.) Because I can't really stomach taking EWP Spiked Chain and playing tripmonkey (though 20ft-threatening and tripping is pretty enticing) I'd considered going with a dwarf, and picking up 1 Heavy Armor Proficiency 3 EWP Dwarven Warpike 6 Stone Form 9 Natural Spell 12 Wolverine's Rage This has the added flavour of being a sort of dwarven earth-lord guy, which I dig, without the refined suck of Stonelord.
Franco Un-American 03-08-07, 01:26 AM	One thing you should note about casting skirmishers is that skirmish, like sneak attack, only works once per volley. Thus, a Split Scorching Ray only gets Skirmish applied once, not 4 times. I'm running a rayist skirmisher in a home game, and that move cut my power in half. He's skill great, but not as good as you think. Note that that ruling wasn't a house rule. It was a ruling from WotC. Just FTR.
jstorrie 03-22-07, 05:21 PM	I'm trying to figure out how to make use of Freezing the Lifeblood. One way I'm considering: Dwarf Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Wis 14 Int 8 Cha 6 1 Fighter Heavy Shield Specialization, Weapon Focus: Warhammer 2 Monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 3 Monk Combat Reflexes, Power Attack 4 Fighter Shield Ward 5 Fighter 6 Fighter True Believer, Improved Initiative 7 Pious Templar 8 Battlesmith Craft Arms & Armor 9 Pious Templar Death Blow 10 Pious Templar Weapon Specialization: Warhammer 11 Pious Templar Freezing the Lifeblood 12 Pious Templar Melee Weapon Mastery: Bludgeoning 13 Pious Templar 14 Pious Templar 15 Pious Templar Combat Vigor The main aim would be to Freezing Lifeblood on AOO's, hoping for a failed save and thus CDG on the next round, while maintaining a fair amount of axe-and-board staying power. Battlesmith+Pious Templar opens up some weapon crafting options and gives Wis synergy.
Alpha_Nerd 03-22-07, 05:32 PM	Wait, does being in stone form qualify you for warshaper and the nature's warrior abilities?
jstorrie 03-23-07, 07:32 AM	Yes, you're considered Wild Shaped while in Stone Form.
Alpha_Nerd 03-23-07, 11:20 AM	I don't have any books in front of me as I'm at work, but do you have the exact quote on that?
jstorrie 03-23-07, 01:25 PM	From Races of Stone, pp 144-145: You can use wild shape to assume a rocklike form... you can spend one of your uses of wild shape to assume a stony and rocklike form... Without this feat, a druid can only use wild shape to assume the form of an animal, plant, or elemental. It's pretty clear that you are 1) using wild shape and 2) assuming a form that is not your usual form, satisfying the requirements of both Nature's Warrior and Warshaper. It's certainly been ruled that way on Infinite Monkeys for about nine billion years.
Alpha_Nerd 03-23-07, 01:42 PM	Sounds like a rockin' idea. I'd probably cut 2 levels of warshaper in the build though and do something like Dwarf 1 Druid 2 Druid 3 Druid 4 Druid 5 Druid 6 Fighter 7 Warshaper 8 Warshaper 9 Deepwarden 10 Deepwarden 11 Nature's Warrior 12 Nature's Warrior 13 Nature's Warrior 14 Nature's Warrior 15 Nature's Warrior Buy a 15 con, bump every level, end up with something like a 30 with an amulet +6 and wear thistledown padded or something like that.
jstorrie 03-23-07, 03:57 PM	Warshaper 2? Say it ain't so! Morphic Healing I can see giving up, since you're already a druid, but no Morphic Reach?
Alpha_Nerd 03-23-07, 04:15 PM	You gotta cut something, and personally I like the 2 levels of nature's warrior better. You could swap em to Warshaper 4/Nature's Warrior 3 if you really wanted.
jstorrie 03-25-07, 07:23 PM	A very simple and effective Cleric healer/blaster/summoner build would be: Human Str 12 Dex 10 Con 14 Wis 16 Int 12 Cha 10 1 Cleric of Trithereon (Good, Summoner): Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning 2 Cleric 3 Cleric: Empower Spell 4 Cleric 5 Cleric 6 Cleric: Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration 7 Cleric 8 Cleric 9 Cleric: Rapid Spell 10 Cleric 11 Cleric 12 Cleric: Quicken Spell 13 Cleric 14 Cleric 15 Cleric: Craft Whatever The main aim being to get free Empower on all your cures, restorations, cometfalls, and restorations, as well as free Empower or Rapid on your summons and discount Quicken on all of the above. Good + Summoner + Augment Summoning means that your summoned monsters are useful even at first level, as they'll stick around for three rounds and have the Augment buff. Being able to empower Summon Monster 2+ to get large amounts of Augmented cannon fodder is very tactically useful, and Empowering every cure is a nice trick for a non-Radiant-Servant. I like this build because it's very versatile.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-25-07, 07:29 PM	A very simple and effective Cleric healer/blaster/summoner build would be: Human Str 12 Dex 10 Con 14 Wis 16 Int 12 Cha 10 1 Cleric of Trithereon (Good, Summoner): Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning 2 Cleric 3 Cleric: Empower Spell 4 Cleric 5 Cleric 6 Cleric: Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration 7 Cleric 8 Cleric 9 Cleric: Rapid Spell 10 Cleric 11 Cleric 12 Cleric: Quicken Spell 13 Cleric 14 Cleric 15 Cleric: Craft Whatever The main aim being to get free Empower on all your cures, restorations, cometfalls, and restorations, as well as free Empower or Rapid on your summons and discount Quicken on all of the above. Good + Summoner + Augment Summoning means that your summoned monsters are useful even at first level, as they'll stick around for three rounds and have the Augment buff. Being able to empower Summon Monster 2+ to get large amounts of Augmented cannon fodder is very tactically useful, and Empowering every cure is a nice trick for a non-Radiant-Servant. I like this build because it's very versatile. Where are you getting free empower from? Empower is +2 spell levels, and Metamagic School focus only lets you reduce the level by one, and only 3 times per day...
jstorrie 03-25-07, 09:45 PM	You know, I'm not sure. I must be getting empower mixed up with enlarge. +1 empower is still good.
Timlagor 03-26-07, 09:14 AM	You also only get 3 per day.
jstorrie 03-26-07, 12:16 PM	A prc-less skirmish-pouncer: Human Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 14 Int 8 Cha 8 1 Scout Tactile Trapsmith 2 Ranger Track 3 Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting, Telling Blow 4 Scout 5 Scout 6 Scout Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish 7 Ranger 8 Ranger 9 Ranger Two-Weapon Pounce 10 Ranger Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 11 Ranger 12 Ranger Improved Critical: Kukri 13 Ranger 14 Ranger 15 Ranger Greater Two-Weapon Fighting The aim of this build: two-weapon skirmish attacks using either Two-Weapon Pounce (at 9) or preferably Lion's Charge (at 12 - reliant on Pearls of Power), with Telling Blow Kukris to fall back on when moving away for another attack is unfeasible (too many foes to tumble, rough terrain, etc.) 6 skill points per level is easily Search, Disable Device (cc), Tumble, (cc) and Survival, with enough Scout levels to pick up 5 ranks in 4 skills and 8 in another (8 Escape Artist, 5 Balance, 5 Knowledge:Nature, 5 Listen, 5 Spot?) Or you could forgo the bonus 2nd-level spell, drop Wis to 12, and pick up another ranger class skill, probably Listen or Spot. A neat caveat of Swift Hunter is that you can skirmish your favoured enemies even if you normally couldn't, so this build would do pretty well with Favoured Enemies Undead, Construct, Elemental and Plant - and can pick up all four by level 15. Unless I'm missing something critical here, this is a light infantry/skillmonkey that I would certainly like to play 1-15. Level 6-8 are strange, in that you may do far more damage single attacking than full attacking–unless you luck out and get some keen kukris, at which point you will tear everything to pieces.
jstorrie 04-13-07, 06:41 PM	Any ideas on year 597 Devoted Performers? What I'm considering now is Human (any) Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 14 1 Bard: Power Attack, Improved Initiative 2 Bard 3 Paladin: Devoted Performer 4 Paladin (+1 Cha) 5 Paladin 6 Paladin: Divine Might 7 Bard 8 Bard (+1 Cha) 9 Bard: Extra Smiting 10 Bard 11 Bard 12 Bard: Arcane Strike (+1 Cha) 13 Bard 14 Bard 15 Bard: Leadership
Mommy was an Orc 04-13-07, 11:21 PM	A prc-less skirmish-pouncer: Human Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 14 Int 8 Cha 8 1 Scout Tactile Trapsmith 2 Ranger Track 3 Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting, Telling Blow 4 Scout 5 Scout 6 Scout Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish 7 Ranger 8 Ranger 9 Ranger Two-Weapon Pounce 10 Ranger Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 11 Ranger 12 Ranger Improved Critical: Kukri 13 Ranger 14 Ranger 15 Ranger Greater Two-Weapon Fighting The aim of this build: two-weapon skirmish attacks using either Two-Weapon Pounce (at 9) or preferably Lion's Charge (at 12 - reliant on Pearls of Power), with Telling Blow Kukris to fall back on when moving away for another attack is unfeasible (too many foes to tumble, rough terrain, etc.) I've got a similar idea for my Snow Elf build - Scout 4/Ranger 5/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 4/Something 1: Snow Elf: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 6 1: Scout 1: Power Attack 2: Ranger 1: Track 3: Wizard 1: Practiced Spellcaster, Scribe Scroll 4: Ranger 2: TWF: Str 17 5: Scout 2 6: Scout 3: Swift Hunter 7: Unseen Seer 1 8: Unseen Seer 2: Str 18 9: Unseen Seer 3: Two-Weapon Pounce(retrained to CWI at 11th) 10: Unseen Seer 4 11: Eldritch Knight 1: Two-Weapon Pounce 12: Ranger 3: Endurance, Arcane Strike: Str 19 13: Scout 4: Improved Skirmish 14: Ranger 4 15: Ranger 5: ? Using some sort of double weapon - that way he can wield it two-handed when he needs to do so, yet at the same time two-weapon pounce when he wants. +12 BAB, +7d6 Skirmish, 3rd level Wizard spells, 1st level Ranger ones(eventually) - Eldritch Knight for the very necessary fighter bonus feat without messing up his XP progression.
Dr.Cornelius 04-14-07, 01:09 PM	6 Horizon Walker Close-Quarters FightingIsn't there a strict interpretation of Close-Quarters Fighting that you do not get the AOO if you do not have reach to hit the grappler? IMHO this makes CQF nearly useless - most of the BBEG grapplers have significant reach.
Dr.Cornelius 04-14-07, 01:33 PM	Any suggestions for a combat-oriented Barbarian/Cleric? Normally I would go Human to pick up the extra Feat but here in the Pale the powers-that-be are tough on Clerics who don't lick the boots of Pholtus. Its a little easier for non-humans. Half-Orc Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 16 Int 6 Cha 6 Kelanen (Travel, War domains) or Kord (Strength, Luck domains) Greatsword with either diety 1 Barbarian Extra Rage, Weapon Focus Greatsword (if following Kelanen) 2 Cleric 3 Cleric (not sure which feat - definitely not CWI. This is a fighter, not a tradesman) 4 Cleric 5 Cleric 6 Cleric (Feat?) 7 Cleric 8 Cleric 9 Cleric Quicken Spell Its a tough choice between Kelanen and Kord: Kelanen Advantages: +1 to hit with Weapon Focus (War Domain) +10 Movement with Longstrider domain spell Fly spell at level 3 Freedom of Movement (Travel Domain) can save your life Kord Advantages: Enlarge Person is very strong (but it is a full round action - how practical?) Luck Domain re-roll is strong (perhaps less strong now that Not This Time LG Campaign card is available?) I am leaning toward Kelanen, but don't have a good idea of the key feats and spells to support the build - especially new LGCS 597 access.
jstorrie 04-14-07, 04:04 PM	You'd definitely want Power Attack as a Barbarian/Cleric, so pick that up early. I like Retributive Spell a lot, which you might want to consider. My favoured domains for a melee cleric are Strength and Destruction; Courage, Liberation, Competition and Destiny are good, too. Some good non-standard choices for barbarian/clerics are: Ralishaz (Destruction, Liberation, take Extra Smite) St. Cuthbert (Destruction, Strength) Vathris (Destruction, War–involved in recent plot lines) Heironeus (Courage, War) Kord (Courage, Strength/Competition) Llerg (Courage, Strength) Norebo (Courage, Competition/Luck) Extended Rage and Reckless Rage are good feats to supplement this sort of character. You could take Craft Magic Weapons and Armor, but I wouldn't advise it.
Dr.Cornelius 04-15-07, 02:45 AM	Courage, Liberation, Competition and Destiny are good (domains), too. Competition is great for a Grappler and Zeal is a great 2nd level domain spell. I am a big fan of extra movement - Travel and Celerity Domains. Travel has great spells not normally available to divine casters: Longstrider, Fly, Dimension Door. Most importantly you effectively have Freedom of Movement up all the time. Celerity gains +10 movement and has a pretty good domain spell list including Haste at 4th. A conundrum for the Barbarian/Cleric Gish build is to go for 3rd level spells or a second iterative attack first. You can either get 3rd levels at 6th level and a second attack at 8th level, or 3rd level spells at 8th level and a second attack at 7th level. Its a tough choice! Here are the two versions Half-Orc Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 16 Int 6 Cha 6 Follower of Kelanen (Travel, War domains) Melee Emphasis 1 Barbarian Extra Rage, Weapon Focus Greatsword (War domain) 2 Cleric 3 Cleric Power Attack 4 Cleric <2nd level spells> 5 Fighter (bonus feat) 6 Fighter (feat, bonus feat) 7 Cleric +6/+1 BAB 8 Cleric <3rd level spells> 9 Cleric Quicken Spell Caster Emphasis 1 Barbarian Extra Rage, Weapon Focus Greatsword (War domain) 2 Cleric 3 Cleric Power Attack 4 Cleric <2nd level spells> 5 Cleric 6 Cleric (feat) <3rd level spells> 7 Cleric 8 Cleric +6/+1 BAB <4th level spells> 9 Cleric Quicken Spell
jstorrie 06-24-07, 01:08 AM	One that I've been tossing about for a while in my head: Human Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Wis 14 Int 8 Cha 8 1 Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Power Attack 2 Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 3 Monk: Combat Reflexes, Improved Bull Rush 4 Monk 5 Monk 6 Monk: Flying Kick 7 Monk: Improved Trip 8 Fighter: Shock Trooper 9 Pious Templar: Two-Weapon Pounce 10 Pious Templar 11 Pious Templar: Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike 12 Pious Templar: Versatile Unarmed Strike, Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 13 Pious Templar 14 Pious Templar 15 Pious Templar: Improved Toughness While Pious Templar/Wisdom-heavy Monk are synergistic fits already, the main feature here, I think, is being able to yell out "Double Slash Kick!" every time your monk charges someone for 1d8+1d12+Str+Spec+Mastery+BAB with Stunning Fist/1d8+1d12+Str+Spec+Mastery+BAB. Versatile Unarmed Strike is in here because all monks should carry a guisarme, and you'll want to apply your Spec/Mastery bonuses to it. Pulling back to reach range and using the guisarme with Power Attack is a good backup option for when your fists aren't cutting it for some reason–investing in a trio of DR-busters that cover the ones Monks have trouble with (cold iron, adamantine, silvered) is probably a good idea since you're unarmored and guisarmes are a mere 12 lbs (and you might drop one resisting a trip, too.)
Franco Un-American 06-24-07, 04:55 PM	Too many stat points, btw. Something needs to give; personally, I'd drop Wis to 14, but that's just me. Otherwise, I like it.
Mommy was an Orc 06-24-07, 05:42 PM	Too many stat points and you don't even have a 15 Dex for TWF... One that I've been tossing about for a while in my head: Human Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Wis 16 Int 8 Cha 8 1 Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Power Attack 2 Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
jstorrie 06-25-07, 01:57 AM	No wonder it seemed so decent–pushing up to 30 point buy is definitely an advantage, hah.