Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Efekjek 05-09-07, 04:56 PM	I ask because I got this wacky idea of having a first level druid using a Heavy Horse companion. He runs in and provokes the enemy's only AOO, then has the horse charge in with its beefy grapple check. I don't know, though. The idea of a horse initiating a grapple is ridiculous. See, I like animal companions that can lock down enemies, but none of the first level ones are particularly good at it.
Sieylianna 05-09-07, 05:26 PM	I ask because I got this wacky idea of having a first level druid using a Heavy Horse companion. He runs in and provokes the enemy's only AOO, then has the horse charge in with its beefy grapple check. I don't know, though. The idea of a horse initiating a grapple is ridiculous. See, I like animal companions that can lock down enemies, but none of the first level ones are particularly good at it. I don't think your druid would live to second level. I can sort of see it. Before the non-lethal trick was allowed for animal companions, when we needed a prisoner (or a party member was charmed) I'd have my tiger make a claw attack, use improved grab to start a grapple, and then pin the opponent by laying on top of him. That is pushing the animal (DC 25 handle animal check) and is going to be tough at low levels. Ed
mowaca 05-09-07, 05:39 PM	I ask because I got this wacky idea of having a first level druid using a Heavy Horse companion. He runs in and provokes the enemy's only AOO, then has the horse charge in with its beefy grapple check. I don't know, though. The idea of a horse initiating a grapple is ridiculous. See, I like animal companions that can lock down enemies, but none of the first level ones are particularly good at it. If you think of grappling as just fighting in the same square as your opponent, it makes more sense. If you just want to lock down an enemy, riding dogs usually do a good job of tripping most things. Grappling is a good strategy, especially with anything small or smaller, but provoking AOOs with a druid isn't.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-10-07, 03:40 PM	The grapple trick is now open...it's in either CA, RotW, or RoS...can't remember which...
thorinXXX 05-10-07, 04:01 PM	Expect a lot of GM's to balk at this. They do not have to allow any tricks that are not in the PHB, and without the trick you have to push the animal. In short, expect not only table variation, but active resistance to this idea.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-10-07, 04:14 PM	Expect a lot of GM's to balk at this. They do not have to allow any tricks that are not in the PHB, and without the trick you have to push the animal. In short, expect not only table variation, but active resistance to this idea. No actually, they DO have to allow tricks from those other books according to the latest LGCS.
kjenks 05-10-07, 04:16 PM	Yes, your horse can grapple. If your horse has the right trick, you can use a normal Handle Animal DC 10. If it doesn't have the right trick, you can push the horse, DC 20, as a move action, and the horse will obey on its next action. BTW, try using Share Spell with Beast Claws (1 hour/level, Spell Compendium). Your heavy horse's secondary natural weapons become primary natural weapons, erasing the -5 attack penalty. You may be so happy with it that you give up the grappling-horse concept.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-10-07, 04:22 PM	This topic makes me want to give my druid's rhino the grapple trick...+22 grapple...and 33AC walking around...could really suprise some baddies when the rhino tries to grab them instead of stab them...
Potato Weasel 05-12-07, 02:26 PM	But remember that unless the animal has improved grab, the grapple damage is worked out as an unarmed strike based on its size.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-12-07, 02:48 PM	But remember that unless the animal has improved grab, the grapple damage is worked out as an unarmed strike based on its size. Who cares? You never grapple to do damage, you grapple to stop the target from doing stuff.
Reska 05-14-07, 10:22 AM	But remember that unless the animal has improved grab, the grapple damage is worked out as an unarmed strike based on its size. Unless you start off with..."Jaws of the Moray". Course, in that case you don't need the grapple skill. Just Bite, hold on, and deal damage.