Centaur through RHoD: Build Idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Centaur through RHoD: Build Idea [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lightblade
04-20-07, 12:22 PM So, i've got a Centaur 4 (one encounter away from 5th, more or less) that i'll be sending through RHoD this year. I was planning on doing some various crazy things, but now I think i'll simplify my build idea.

Here's what I've got so far:
Initial Ability Scores: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8
Survival 6 ranks, Feats EWP Great Scimitar, Power Attack

Levels to come:
5th: Retrain EWP -> True Believer (Kelanen)
6th: Become Large. 1 rank survival.
7th: Cleric 1. Retrain 4 ranks survival -> 4 ranks Knowledge Religion
8th: Barbarian 1 or Ranger 1. Feat?
9th Pious Templar 1
10th: Pious Templar 2
11th: Pious Templar 3: Weapon Spec Falchion, Melee Weapon Mastery

Couple things i'm still undecided on:
Go with barbarian or ranger?
Barbarian: Rage! Can take a level of Bear Warrior later to pseudo-polymorph into a black bear (medium) if necessary in a mod. Rage!
Ranger: Track, more skill points (enough to take Survival back into take 10 territory after shuffling them into Know:Religion). Might find access to favored enemy arcanists, taking the fight to Rary and his ilk. Favored class, so if i want to take more cleric levels later, it's all right.

Feat at 8th level: Extra rage? (if barbarian) Extra Turning? (I have access to a greater holy symbol of Kelanen that's powered off of 3 turn attemps, so 2 is one short, but 6 activates it twice). Alternately, i could take true believer at this level, instead retrain 1st level feet to Alertness, and use one of the shiny new Not this time! cards i just got yesterday.

Grey area: I didn't worship Kelanen originally; I converted during All Roads Lead to Rauxes. Would that prevent retraining my 1st level feat to True Believer? If so, i guess alertness may be the way to go for now (or something else if there's an awesome feat i'm forgetting)
Edit: I guess Tunnel Fighting could be taken at first level...
Rerednaw
04-20-07, 01:07 PM So, i've got a Centaur 4 (one encounter away from 5th, more or less) that i'll be sending through RHoD this year. I was planning on doing some various crazy things, but now I think i'll simplify my build idea.

Here's what I've got so far:
Initial Ability Scores: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8
Survival 6 ranks, Feats EWP Great Scimitar, Power Attack

Levels to come:
5th: Retrain EWP -> True Believer (Kelanen)
6th: Become Large. 1 rank survival.
7th: Cleric 1. Retrain 4 ranks survival -> 4 ranks Knowledge Religion
8th: Barbarian 1 or Ranger 1. Feat?
9th Pious Templar 1
10th: Pious Templar 2
11th: Pious Templar 3: Weapon Spec Falchion, Melee Weapon Mastery

Couple things i'm still undecided on:
Go with barbarian or ranger?
Barbarian: Rage! Can take a level of Bear Warrior later to pseudo-polymorph into a black bear (medium) if necessary in a mod. Rage!
Ranger: Track, more skill points (enough to take Survival back into take 10 territory after shuffling them into Know:Religion). Might find access to favored enemy arcanists, taking the fight to Rary and his ilk. Favored class, so if i want to take more cleric levels later, it's all right.

Feat at 8th level: Extra rage? (if barbarian) Extra Turning? (I have access to a greater holy symbol of Kelanen that's powered off of 3 turn attemps, so 2 is one short, but 6 activates it twice). Alternately, i could take true believer at this level, instead retrain 1st level feet to Alertness, and use one of the shiny new Not this time! cards i just got yesterday.

Grey area: I didn't worship Kelanen originally; I converted during All Roads Lead to Rauxes. Would that prevent retraining my 1st level feat to True Believer? If so, i guess alertness may be the way to go for now (or something else if there's an awesome feat i'm forgetting)

Okay I have a stupid question. Centaurs are +8 str +4 dex +4 con -2 int and +2 wisdom

You are Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 that's a 0 + 4 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 0 = 10 point buy.

Am I reading this right or is it an LG quirk that centaurs do not get their racial bonuses or something?

Other questions on your build: Are you the main tank? If so you are going to be pretty squishy. What is the party composition? Does no one have tracking ability as you seem to indicate by your desire to take a ranger level?

How did you qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery?

I'm not much of a class switcher myself, I generally stick to one class types so I may not be the best fella to get this sort of an opinion from.
KShaver
04-20-07, 01:14 PM [/SIZE]
Okay I have a stupid question. Centaurs are +8 str +4 dex +4 con -2 int and +2 wisdom

You are Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 that's a 0 + 4 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 0 = 10 point buy.

Am I reading this right or is it an LG quirk that centaurs do not get their racial bonuses or something?

LG used the rules in Races of the Wild for starting a centaur at 1st level. Thus allowing a 4HD EL 6 character to slowly work his way into his full racial hit dice, size, attribute modifiers and adjusted character level. They only start with some minor attribute mods, and gain the rest of the benefits and penalties (missing hit dice) as he levels up. Until 6th when he is a full fledged MM centaur.
Lightblade
04-20-07, 01:39 PM [/SIZE]
Other questions on your build: Are you the main tank? If so you are going to be pretty squishy. What is the party composition? Does no one have tracking ability as you seem to indicate by your desire to take a ranger level?

How did you qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery?

The party seems tank-centric. We've got a lot of high level melee already, it seems. But, it's RHoD and I don't have much of a choice as to which PC I play, from a TU perspective.

Dunno about tracking ability. I'll figure that out when we run next weekend.

As for Melee Weapon Mastery: it doesn't require Fighter levels, just Weapon Specialization, which a Pious Templar gets as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Alpha_Nerd
04-20-07, 01:43 PM Why do you have the Cleric level in there? If it's just for Knowledge: Religion I'd much rather have a Level or 2 of Monk.

So, Centaur 6/Monk 2/Pious Templar 3 then go from there.
Lightblade
04-20-07, 03:34 PM Why do you have the Cleric level in there? If it's just for Knowledge: Religion I'd much rather have a Level or 2 of Monk.

So, Centaur 6/Monk 2/Pious Templar 3 then go from there.

I need the War domain to get proficency and focus, which would be two feats i'd otherwise have to take if i went the Monk route.
Nerax
04-20-07, 05:44 PM I always thought that a grappler Monk was the best class to take for a Centaur....good Str, Dex, Wis, Natural Armor, flurry + two Hove attacks, Large size damage for Natural attacks and + 4 to grapples. Take Improved Natural Attack at first oppertunity.
Mithrus
04-20-07, 07:15 PM As for Melee Weapon Mastery: it doesn't require Fighter levels, just Weapon Specialization, which a Pious Templar gets as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Sorry, but PT gets a bonus feat at 4th level, not 3rd. You do get DR 1/- at 3rd tho.
Lightblade
04-20-07, 08:53 PM I always thought that a grappler Monk was the best class to take for a Centaur....good Str, Dex, Wis, Natural Armor, flurry + two Hove attacks, Large size damage for Natural attacks and + 4 to grapples. Take Improved Natural Attack at first oppertunity.

I don't think you can incorporate natural attacks in a flurry of blows.
Lightblade
04-20-07, 08:58 PM Sorry, but PT gets a bonus feat at 4th level, not 3rd. You do get DR 1/- at 3rd tho.

PT gets a bonus figher feat at 4th level, true. The class also gives Weapon Specialization at 3rd level for the diety's favored weapon. Since the character need not meet the normal prereqs (namely, 4 levels of fighter), it's therefore a bonus feat.
Timlagor
04-20-07, 11:01 PM You can flurry and still get your natural weapon attacks as secondaries: hence the Flurry/Flurry/Claw/Claw/Bite/Hoof/Hoof/Flurry-Secondary routine that can be achieved with a Monk Dragon Disciple Centaur.

I'm going with Monk 2: Impr Grapple is too good
Then Fighter 1/EWM Uncanny Blow (with Great Scimitar)
Then Fighter 2; possibly Barbarian 1+Extra Rage depending on how things go on the alignment front.

Ranger 2 is also an option for Rapid Shot as a back up and a bunch of Skills+Wand use+track.

My Int and Con are higher than yours at the expense of Wis and Dex.

Occult Slayer is also a possibility towards the end.
KShaver
04-21-07, 08:32 AM I don't think you can incorporate natural attacks in a flurry of blows.

That is a point of contention, but it is clear that a centaur can as per the FAQ on flurry. Other creatures with natural attacks may or may not be able to depending on how thier MM entry is listed and of course depending on table variation.
dulgar
04-23-07, 10:43 PM While I know that the attacks don't necessarily need to be done with their hands, but wouldn't a dragon disciple monk have to give up their claw/claw attacks if they flurry? Or at least, iterative and flurry with a weapon or unarmed strike, and a single claw as a secondary?

Thanks,
Aaron
clik_ml
04-23-07, 11:22 PM It's definitely a good idea for your centaur to be packing a mighty composite longbow of appropriate strength modifier. With the open strength access for bows a centaur archer (even without archery feats) can deal some serious damage. Even if you don't intend to shoot arrows often, there will certainly be times where you need it as a backup.

The sad thing is that as a worshiper of Kelanen your bow is going to have to get sold once you start casting divine spells, since the LG Deities document bars Kelanen-dedicated divine casters from using bows at the cost of violating their faith. So your bow will give more limited milage than most centaur characters will receive, but still I think it's worth the investment til you get spellcasting.
jstorrie
04-23-07, 11:42 PM You can retrain to True Believer, despite not being a Kelanen-worshipper at first level, so don't worry about that one.

You can carry a bandoleer of daggers instead of the bow, though you'll have a harder time hitting things (and may want Quick Draw.)
Timlagor
04-24-07, 01:15 PM To be really clear:
* you cannot incorporate natural weapons into a flurry of Blow
* you can use your natural weapons as secondary attacks (at max BAB with a -5 or -2 penalty) in a round in which you flurry.

While I know that the attacks don't necessarily need to be done with their hands, but wouldn't a dragon disciple monk have to give up their claw/claw attacks if they flurry? Or at least, iterative and flurry with a weapon or unarmed strike, and a single claw as a secondary?

I'm confused.
You know that monks don't have to use their hands yet somehow you think they must use their hands?
Flurry of kicks (for example) doesn't use up either hand so both claws are free for secondary attacks. It is true that if you use a weapon to flurry then you would lose one or both claw attacks. (but could still bite)

Iteratives are included in the flurry and not available seperately.

Oh and I believe you could also throw in (I)TWF to get 'off-hand' attacks with your armour spikes :D
[TWF definitely combines with the claw/claw/bite but I'm only mostly certain about the flurry -check the FAQ before you actually plan to use it.]
Timlagor
04-24-07, 01:19 PM Back to the original topic:

I would go with Barbarian + Extra Rage but I don't know how powerful that Symbol is -the Extra Turning is probably a better roleplaying choice.

I think you're ok taking the True Believer at 1st level.
Lightblade
04-25-07, 01:06 AM Back to the original topic:

I would go with Barbarian + Extra Rage but I don't know how powerful that Symbol is -the Extra Turning is probably a better roleplaying choice.

Since the mod is retired: 3 turn attempts gets me a Keen Edge at my cleric level (ie 1, but it's still 10 minutes). Doesn't say what type of action, but i'd assume standard. I could always retrain it out once I can pick up Improved Critical (i'd probably do that with my bonus feat at Templar 4...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lightblade 04-20-07, 12:22 PM	So, i've got a Centaur 4 (one encounter away from 5th, more or less) that i'll be sending through RHoD this year. I was planning on doing some various crazy things, but now I think i'll simplify my build idea. Here's what I've got so far: Initial Ability Scores: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 Survival 6 ranks, Feats EWP Great Scimitar, Power Attack Levels to come: 5th: Retrain EWP -> True Believer (Kelanen) 6th: Become Large. 1 rank survival. 7th: Cleric 1. Retrain 4 ranks survival -> 4 ranks Knowledge Religion 8th: Barbarian 1 or Ranger 1. Feat? 9th Pious Templar 1 10th: Pious Templar 2 11th: Pious Templar 3: Weapon Spec Falchion, Melee Weapon Mastery Couple things i'm still undecided on: Go with barbarian or ranger? Barbarian: Rage! Can take a level of Bear Warrior later to pseudo-polymorph into a black bear (medium) if necessary in a mod. Rage! Ranger: Track, more skill points (enough to take Survival back into take 10 territory after shuffling them into Know:Religion). Might find access to favored enemy arcanists, taking the fight to Rary and his ilk. Favored class, so if i want to take more cleric levels later, it's all right. Feat at 8th level: Extra rage? (if barbarian) Extra Turning? (I have access to a greater holy symbol of Kelanen that's powered off of 3 turn attemps, so 2 is one short, but 6 activates it twice). Alternately, i could take true believer at this level, instead retrain 1st level feet to Alertness, and use one of the shiny new Not this time! cards i just got yesterday. Grey area: I didn't worship Kelanen originally; I converted during All Roads Lead to Rauxes. Would that prevent retraining my 1st level feat to True Believer? If so, i guess alertness may be the way to go for now (or something else if there's an awesome feat i'm forgetting) Edit: I guess Tunnel Fighting could be taken at first level...
Rerednaw 04-20-07, 01:07 PM	So, i've got a Centaur 4 (one encounter away from 5th, more or less) that i'll be sending through RHoD this year. I was planning on doing some various crazy things, but now I think i'll simplify my build idea. Here's what I've got so far: Initial Ability Scores: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 Survival 6 ranks, Feats EWP Great Scimitar, Power Attack Levels to come: 5th: Retrain EWP -> True Believer (Kelanen) 6th: Become Large. 1 rank survival. 7th: Cleric 1. Retrain 4 ranks survival -> 4 ranks Knowledge Religion 8th: Barbarian 1 or Ranger 1. Feat? 9th Pious Templar 1 10th: Pious Templar 2 11th: Pious Templar 3: Weapon Spec Falchion, Melee Weapon Mastery Couple things i'm still undecided on: Go with barbarian or ranger? Barbarian: Rage! Can take a level of Bear Warrior later to pseudo-polymorph into a black bear (medium) if necessary in a mod. Rage! Ranger: Track, more skill points (enough to take Survival back into take 10 territory after shuffling them into Know:Religion). Might find access to favored enemy arcanists, taking the fight to Rary and his ilk. Favored class, so if i want to take more cleric levels later, it's all right. Feat at 8th level: Extra rage? (if barbarian) Extra Turning? (I have access to a greater holy symbol of Kelanen that's powered off of 3 turn attemps, so 2 is one short, but 6 activates it twice). Alternately, i could take true believer at this level, instead retrain 1st level feet to Alertness, and use one of the shiny new Not this time! cards i just got yesterday. Grey area: I didn't worship Kelanen originally; I converted during All Roads Lead to Rauxes. Would that prevent retraining my 1st level feat to True Believer? If so, i guess alertness may be the way to go for now (or something else if there's an awesome feat i'm forgetting) Okay I have a stupid question. Centaurs are +8 str +4 dex +4 con -2 int and +2 wisdom You are Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 that's a 0 + 4 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 0 = 10 point buy. Am I reading this right or is it an LG quirk that centaurs do not get their racial bonuses or something? Other questions on your build: Are you the main tank? If so you are going to be pretty squishy. What is the party composition? Does no one have tracking ability as you seem to indicate by your desire to take a ranger level? How did you qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery? I'm not much of a class switcher myself, I generally stick to one class types so I may not be the best fella to get this sort of an opinion from.
KShaver 04-20-07, 01:14 PM	[/SIZE] Okay I have a stupid question. Centaurs are +8 str +4 dex +4 con -2 int and +2 wisdom You are Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 8 that's a 0 + 4 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 0 = 10 point buy. Am I reading this right or is it an LG quirk that centaurs do not get their racial bonuses or something? LG used the rules in Races of the Wild for starting a centaur at 1st level. Thus allowing a 4HD EL 6 character to slowly work his way into his full racial hit dice, size, attribute modifiers and adjusted character level. They only start with some minor attribute mods, and gain the rest of the benefits and penalties (missing hit dice) as he levels up. Until 6th when he is a full fledged MM centaur.
Lightblade 04-20-07, 01:39 PM	[/SIZE] Other questions on your build: Are you the main tank? If so you are going to be pretty squishy. What is the party composition? Does no one have tracking ability as you seem to indicate by your desire to take a ranger level? How did you qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery? The party seems tank-centric. We've got a lot of high level melee already, it seems. But, it's RHoD and I don't have much of a choice as to which PC I play, from a TU perspective. Dunno about tracking ability. I'll figure that out when we run next weekend. As for Melee Weapon Mastery: it doesn't require Fighter levels, just Weapon Specialization, which a Pious Templar gets as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Alpha_Nerd 04-20-07, 01:43 PM	Why do you have the Cleric level in there? If it's just for Knowledge: Religion I'd much rather have a Level or 2 of Monk. So, Centaur 6/Monk 2/Pious Templar 3 then go from there.
Lightblade 04-20-07, 03:34 PM	Why do you have the Cleric level in there? If it's just for Knowledge: Religion I'd much rather have a Level or 2 of Monk. So, Centaur 6/Monk 2/Pious Templar 3 then go from there. I need the War domain to get proficency and focus, which would be two feats i'd otherwise have to take if i went the Monk route.
Nerax 04-20-07, 05:44 PM	I always thought that a grappler Monk was the best class to take for a Centaur....good Str, Dex, Wis, Natural Armor, flurry + two Hove attacks, Large size damage for Natural attacks and + 4 to grapples. Take Improved Natural Attack at first oppertunity.
Mithrus 04-20-07, 07:15 PM	As for Melee Weapon Mastery: it doesn't require Fighter levels, just Weapon Specialization, which a Pious Templar gets as a bonus feat at 3rd level. Sorry, but PT gets a bonus feat at 4th level, not 3rd. You do get DR 1/- at 3rd tho.
Lightblade 04-20-07, 08:53 PM	I always thought that a grappler Monk was the best class to take for a Centaur....good Str, Dex, Wis, Natural Armor, flurry + two Hove attacks, Large size damage for Natural attacks and + 4 to grapples. Take Improved Natural Attack at first oppertunity. I don't think you can incorporate natural attacks in a flurry of blows.
Lightblade 04-20-07, 08:58 PM	Sorry, but PT gets a bonus feat at 4th level, not 3rd. You do get DR 1/- at 3rd tho. PT gets a bonus figher feat at 4th level, true. The class also gives Weapon Specialization at 3rd level for the diety's favored weapon. Since the character need not meet the normal prereqs (namely, 4 levels of fighter), it's therefore a bonus feat.
Timlagor 04-20-07, 11:01 PM	You can flurry and still get your natural weapon attacks as secondaries: hence the Flurry/Flurry/Claw/Claw/Bite/Hoof/Hoof/Flurry-Secondary routine that can be achieved with a Monk Dragon Disciple Centaur. I'm going with Monk 2: Impr Grapple is too good Then Fighter 1/EWM Uncanny Blow (with Great Scimitar) Then Fighter 2; possibly Barbarian 1+Extra Rage depending on how things go on the alignment front. Ranger 2 is also an option for Rapid Shot as a back up and a bunch of Skills+Wand use+track. My Int and Con are higher than yours at the expense of Wis and Dex. Occult Slayer is also a possibility towards the end.
KShaver 04-21-07, 08:32 AM	I don't think you can incorporate natural attacks in a flurry of blows. That is a point of contention, but it is clear that a centaur can as per the FAQ on flurry. Other creatures with natural attacks may or may not be able to depending on how thier MM entry is listed and of course depending on table variation.
dulgar 04-23-07, 10:43 PM	While I know that the attacks don't necessarily need to be done with their hands, but wouldn't a dragon disciple monk have to give up their claw/claw attacks if they flurry? Or at least, iterative and flurry with a weapon or unarmed strike, and a single claw as a secondary? Thanks, Aaron
clik_ml 04-23-07, 11:22 PM	It's definitely a good idea for your centaur to be packing a mighty composite longbow of appropriate strength modifier. With the open strength access for bows a centaur archer (even without archery feats) can deal some serious damage. Even if you don't intend to shoot arrows often, there will certainly be times where you need it as a backup. The sad thing is that as a worshiper of Kelanen your bow is going to have to get sold once you start casting divine spells, since the LG Deities document bars Kelanen-dedicated divine casters from using bows at the cost of violating their faith. So your bow will give more limited milage than most centaur characters will receive, but still I think it's worth the investment til you get spellcasting.
jstorrie 04-23-07, 11:42 PM	You can retrain to True Believer, despite not being a Kelanen-worshipper at first level, so don't worry about that one. You can carry a bandoleer of daggers instead of the bow, though you'll have a harder time hitting things (and may want Quick Draw.)
Timlagor 04-24-07, 01:15 PM	To be really clear: * you cannot incorporate natural weapons into a flurry of Blow * you can use your natural weapons as secondary attacks (at max BAB with a -5 or -2 penalty) in a round in which you flurry. While I know that the attacks don't necessarily need to be done with their hands, but wouldn't a dragon disciple monk have to give up their claw/claw attacks if they flurry? Or at least, iterative and flurry with a weapon or unarmed strike, and a single claw as a secondary? I'm confused. You know that monks don't have to use their hands yet somehow you think they must use their hands? Flurry of kicks (for example) doesn't use up either hand so both claws are free for secondary attacks. It is true that if you use a weapon to flurry then you would lose one or both claw attacks. (but could still bite) Iteratives are included in the flurry and not available seperately. Oh and I believe you could also throw in (I)TWF to get 'off-hand' attacks with your armour spikes :D [TWF definitely combines with the claw/claw/bite but I'm only mostly certain about the flurry -check the FAQ before you actually plan to use it.]
Timlagor 04-24-07, 01:19 PM	Back to the original topic: I would go with Barbarian + Extra Rage but I don't know how powerful that Symbol is -the Extra Turning is probably a better roleplaying choice. I think you're ok taking the True Believer at 1st level.
Lightblade 04-25-07, 01:06 AM	Back to the original topic: I would go with Barbarian + Extra Rage but I don't know how powerful that Symbol is -the Extra Turning is probably a better roleplaying choice. Since the mod is retired: 3 turn attempts gets me a Keen Edge at my cleric level (ie 1, but it's still 10 minutes). Doesn't say what type of action, but i'd assume standard. I could always retrain it out once I can pick up Improved Critical (i'd probably do that with my bonus feat at Templar 4...)