chain tripping cohort [Archive] - Wizards Community

chain tripping cohort [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cycloptic_squirrel
03-15-07, 10:55 PM I just hit six with my cleric and thought about getting her a cohort. I think there are enough opportunities to bring a cohort it should be good use of a feat. I'm going to try and scare up a judge & table for Red Hand, and preliminary results indicate there'd be room for a cohort. If there's not room, I'll just take another feat now and the cohort at 9.

The leader is a bard1/cleric5 of Phyton soon to go into radiant cheezemonkey. Primarily trying to be a face while coving heal/buff duty. I'm also trying to keep her AC up, for another body on the front line. Doesn't do a lick of damage, hence the combat-type cohort. Given the backstory, I couldn't justify a straight up melee though. Silly me.

So the cohort will start at 4 and if I keep the charisma up, should stay 2 levels behind my entire career.

NG-LG Human
Str 15 Dex 8 Con 13 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 12

1: Bard 1 - Combat Expertise, Skill focus: Use Magic Device
2: Knight 1
3: Knight 2 - Improved Trip, (Mounted Combat), (Sheildblock +1)
4: Knight 3 - (Bulwark of Defense), bump Str 16
5: Fighter 1 - Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
6: Bard 2 - Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain
7: Bard 3
8: Exotic Weapon Master 1 - Flurry of Blows, bump Con 14
9: Bard 4 - Power Attack

Then I'm not quite sure. Two options I've come up with:
10: Fighter 2 - Close Quarters Fighting
11: Fighter 3
12: Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery: Piercing
13: Spellsword 1

or
10: Spellsword 1
11: Exotic Weapon Master 2 - +2 Trip
12: Spellsword 2 - Close Quarters Fighting
13: Eldrich Knight 1 - Cleave

Skills will be fluid but try and max UMD, Gather Info, Spot, Knowledge-Planes; will also spread out some in random areas, synergies, perform ranks, a few ride to make use of the free mounted combat

The basic idea is that as soon as the enemy has closed, five foot steps aren't possible, thus neither are full attacks, if we keep five footing back. If the leader buys a few wands of enlarge person, the cohort should be able to UMD them (as well as other useful scrolls) and trip many things. Power attack comes late, but as a cohort, my main goal is to lock down the enemy so my team can beat on them at their leisure.

The skills fill in holes I've noticed with my character. Bard spells will be utilitarian: swift exp. retreat, feather fall, critical strike, and friendly face. I hit bard 4 at level 9 deliberately: at this point Harmonic Chorus will boost the leader to caster level 12 for all sorts of good bumps: vestments, GMW, barkskin, resist energy etc. Repeated benefits at levels 10 and 13 (12 and 13 if I run into an ion stone).

I went with Wis 10 and Dex 8 assuming that once I could afford to deck out the cohort, I could get gloves of Dex, but the neck slot would scream Con.

Levels 10-13 I guess I'm trying to decide between pure damage and utility, and I'm leaning toward the former, though I have five levels to decide.

This cohort will rely pretty heavily on the leader for items, I'm already envisioning +2 Dex gloves, +2 Charisma cloak, +4 Strength belt, animated shield, etc., though I get the impression this happens to some extent with most cohorts.
I'm expeting a magic vestment/GMW from the leader to help make up the equipment gap. Maybe a long term circle of protection.
I envision the cohort usually running around in heavy plate and buckler. Maybe carry a tower shield when tripping isn't useful and she really needs to turtle up. I'll try a horse since mounted combat is free, but I'm not expecting much.

So what do you think? Too cheesey? Too useless? What about the alignment antics in levels 1-6? Thoughts? Suggestions? Vague statements regarding to my sanity?
boogahwoof
03-16-07, 01:34 AM One of the only holes i see in the design is why power attack at all? Because of the fact you are taking knight levels ! you have to be lawful in allignment 2 tripping then hitting a down opponent will go against your knights code of conduct, same as disarming and hitting. also your dex is very low, at 9th hopefully you would have something to boost that and i would take conbat reflexes, whats the point in threatining all that area if your only gonna get 1 ao per round. I would think a trip artist would want more than that.
opa
03-16-07, 06:32 AM remember if you bring your cohort along, hes going to be playing up with subpar equiptment and stats...
send him to the front lines in a long tough mod and your gonna be spending all your time healing him...
if you're planning on taking him along because of the ton of use you'd get from him in red hand of doom, you might want to get him a build that can hang out in the back row
... maybe an archer...
cycloptic_squirrel
03-16-07, 07:14 AM I have an eye towards Red Hand, but I'm also looking for general LG use. Hopefully if the cohort embigginates herself with a reach weapon, she will be near the back. :P
I know I'll have to run interference and pump in a lot of healing, but I'm the cleric, so it's my job anyway. I'm aiming for the cohort to play a support role in the any given party's melee, but be able to step up if I find myself at a table full of arcane. Or other diplomacy fools.
An archer is an interesting idea though...

As far as the Dex, the cohort stats are restictive; I had to cut something and combat reflexes seemed like a reasonable line. If the leader can accumulate and invest a significant amount in the cohort, might be able to bring it back. Or should I have put this at a higher priority?
LachlarlanIII
03-19-07, 10:44 AM One of the only holes i see in the design is why power attack at all? Because of the fact you are taking knight levels ! you have to be lawful in allignment 2 tripping then hitting a down opponent will go against your knights code of conduct, same as disarming and hitting. also your dex is very low, at 9th hopefully you would have something to boost that and i would take conbat reflexes, whats the point in threatining all that area if your only gonna get 1 ao per round. I would think a trip artist would want more than that.

Hitting a tripped opponent doesn't go against the code at all.

From the Knight's Code:

A knight does not gain a bonus on attack rolls when flanking. You still confer the benefi t of a flanking position to your ally, but you forgo your own +2 bonus on attack rolls. You can choose to keep the +2 bonus, but doing so violates your code of honor (see below).

A knight never strikes a flat-footed opponent. Instead, you allow your foe to ready himself before attacking.

A knight never deals lethal damage against a helpless foe. You can strike such a foe, but only with attacks that deal nonlethal damage.

A tripped foe is none of the above.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cycloptic_squirrel 03-15-07, 10:55 PM	I just hit six with my cleric and thought about getting her a cohort. I think there are enough opportunities to bring a cohort it should be good use of a feat. I'm going to try and scare up a judge & table for Red Hand, and preliminary results indicate there'd be room for a cohort. If there's not room, I'll just take another feat now and the cohort at 9. The leader is a bard1/cleric5 of Phyton soon to go into radiant cheezemonkey. Primarily trying to be a face while coving heal/buff duty. I'm also trying to keep her AC up, for another body on the front line. Doesn't do a lick of damage, hence the combat-type cohort. Given the backstory, I couldn't justify a straight up melee though. Silly me. So the cohort will start at 4 and if I keep the charisma up, should stay 2 levels behind my entire career. NG-LG Human Str 15 Dex 8 Con 13 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 12 1: Bard 1 - Combat Expertise, Skill focus: Use Magic Device 2: Knight 1 3: Knight 2 - Improved Trip, (Mounted Combat), (Sheildblock +1) 4: Knight 3 - (Bulwark of Defense), bump Str 16 5: Fighter 1 - Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain 6: Bard 2 - Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain 7: Bard 3 8: Exotic Weapon Master 1 - Flurry of Blows, bump Con 14 9: Bard 4 - Power Attack Then I'm not quite sure. Two options I've come up with: 10: Fighter 2 - Close Quarters Fighting 11: Fighter 3 12: Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery: Piercing 13: Spellsword 1 or 10: Spellsword 1 11: Exotic Weapon Master 2 - +2 Trip 12: Spellsword 2 - Close Quarters Fighting 13: Eldrich Knight 1 - Cleave Skills will be fluid but try and max UMD, Gather Info, Spot, Knowledge-Planes; will also spread out some in random areas, synergies, perform ranks, a few ride to make use of the free mounted combat The basic idea is that as soon as the enemy has closed, five foot steps aren't possible, thus neither are full attacks, if we keep five footing back. If the leader buys a few wands of enlarge person, the cohort should be able to UMD them (as well as other useful scrolls) and trip many things. Power attack comes late, but as a cohort, my main goal is to lock down the enemy so my team can beat on them at their leisure. The skills fill in holes I've noticed with my character. Bard spells will be utilitarian: swift exp. retreat, feather fall, critical strike, and friendly face. I hit bard 4 at level 9 deliberately: at this point Harmonic Chorus will boost the leader to caster level 12 for all sorts of good bumps: vestments, GMW, barkskin, resist energy etc. Repeated benefits at levels 10 and 13 (12 and 13 if I run into an ion stone). I went with Wis 10 and Dex 8 assuming that once I could afford to deck out the cohort, I could get gloves of Dex, but the neck slot would scream Con. Levels 10-13 I guess I'm trying to decide between pure damage and utility, and I'm leaning toward the former, though I have five levels to decide. This cohort will rely pretty heavily on the leader for items, I'm already envisioning +2 Dex gloves, +2 Charisma cloak, +4 Strength belt, animated shield, etc., though I get the impression this happens to some extent with most cohorts. I'm expeting a magic vestment/GMW from the leader to help make up the equipment gap. Maybe a long term circle of protection. I envision the cohort usually running around in heavy plate and buckler. Maybe carry a tower shield when tripping isn't useful and she really needs to turtle up. I'll try a horse since mounted combat is free, but I'm not expecting much. So what do you think? Too cheesey? Too useless? What about the alignment antics in levels 1-6? Thoughts? Suggestions? Vague statements regarding to my sanity?
boogahwoof 03-16-07, 01:34 AM	One of the only holes i see in the design is why power attack at all? Because of the fact you are taking knight levels ! you have to be lawful in allignment 2 tripping then hitting a down opponent will go against your knights code of conduct, same as disarming and hitting. also your dex is very low, at 9th hopefully you would have something to boost that and i would take conbat reflexes, whats the point in threatining all that area if your only gonna get 1 ao per round. I would think a trip artist would want more than that.
opa 03-16-07, 06:32 AM	remember if you bring your cohort along, hes going to be playing up with subpar equiptment and stats... send him to the front lines in a long tough mod and your gonna be spending all your time healing him... if you're planning on taking him along because of the ton of use you'd get from him in red hand of doom, you might want to get him a build that can hang out in the back row ... maybe an archer...
cycloptic_squirrel 03-16-07, 07:14 AM	I have an eye towards Red Hand, but I'm also looking for general LG use. Hopefully if the cohort embigginates herself with a reach weapon, she will be near the back. :P I know I'll have to run interference and pump in a lot of healing, but I'm the cleric, so it's my job anyway. I'm aiming for the cohort to play a support role in the any given party's melee, but be able to step up if I find myself at a table full of arcane. Or other diplomacy fools. An archer is an interesting idea though... As far as the Dex, the cohort stats are restictive; I had to cut something and combat reflexes seemed like a reasonable line. If the leader can accumulate and invest a significant amount in the cohort, might be able to bring it back. Or should I have put this at a higher priority?
LachlarlanIII 03-19-07, 10:44 AM	One of the only holes i see in the design is why power attack at all? Because of the fact you are taking knight levels ! you have to be lawful in allignment 2 tripping then hitting a down opponent will go against your knights code of conduct, same as disarming and hitting. also your dex is very low, at 9th hopefully you would have something to boost that and i would take conbat reflexes, whats the point in threatining all that area if your only gonna get 1 ao per round. I would think a trip artist would want more than that. Hitting a tripped opponent doesn't go against the code at all. From the Knight's Code: A knight does not gain a bonus on attack rolls when flanking. You still confer the benefi t of a flanking position to your ally, but you forgo your own +2 bonus on attack rolls. You can choose to keep the +2 bonus, but doing so violates your code of honor (see below). A knight never strikes a flat-footed opponent. Instead, you allow your foe to ready himself before attacking. A knight never deals lethal damage against a helpless foe. You can strike such a foe, but only with attacks that deal nonlethal damage. A tripped foe is none of the above.