Post/Author/DateTime	Post
clannagh 11-23-06, 06:04 PM	grey elf STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 1. SWASH (finesse, chain proficient) 2. FIGHTER (expertise) 3. FIGHTER (imp trip, combat reflexes) 4 WIZZIE (with true strike and other non-somatic spells) [+1] INT 5 SWASH (grace) 6 SWASH (insightful strike, improved disarm) 7 WIZZIE 8. WIZZIE [+1 CON] 9. SPELLSWORD The idea being to do funky stuff like precharge the chain with unluck .. cast sonic weapon .. trip the baddies who take unluck immediately and hopefully fail the opposed trip and get whacked again with sonic chain plus int to damage goodness. Other potentially nice things to charge the chain with include blindness, critical stike or even daze/flare. comments ?
_m_ 11-23-06, 06:25 PM	grey elf STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 1. SWASH (finesse, chain proficient) 2. FIGHTER (expertise) 3. FIGHTER (imp trip, combat reflexes) 4 WIZZIE (with true strike and other non-somatic spells) [+1] INT 5 SWASH (grace) 6 SWASH (insightful strike, improved disarm) 7 WIZZIE 8. WIZZIE [+1 CON] 9. SPELLSWORD The idea being to do funky stuff like precharge the chain with unluck .. cast sonic weapon .. trip the baddies who take unluck immediately and hopefully fail the opposed trip and get whacked again with sonic chain plus int to damage goodness. Other potentially nice things to charge the chain with include blindness, critical stike or even daze/flare. comments ? unluck is a 4th, so given the - / 1 / - prgresion of casting with the spellsword, you wont get it before 16. 6 spellsword is only 3 caster levels, and 3 wizard, ud get 6th equivalent caster level. you could of course take 1 more level of wizard.
clannagh 11-23-06, 07:00 PM	unluck is a 4th, so given the - / 1 / - prgresion of casting with the spellsword, you wont get it before 16. 6 spellsword is only 3 caster levels, and 3 wizard, ud get 6th equivalent caster level. you could of course take 1 more level of wizard. good point i could add a level of a second PrC that gives an arcane caster level instead but that means no channel spell into chain until level 14
_m_ 11-23-06, 07:10 PM	good point i could add a level of a second PrC that gives an arcane caster level instead but that means no channel spell into chain until level 14 you could always go spellsword at 7. ud be slightly less combat effective, and have sum feat jugling to get there (like armour prof with a feat, not a fighter level) but ud get spells into the chain faster.
clannagh 11-23-06, 07:15 PM	you could always go spellsword at 7. ud be slightly less combat effective, and have sum feat jugling to get there (like armour prof with a feat, not a fighter level) but ud get spells into the chain faster. Ok hows this .. grey elf STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 1. SWASH (finesse, chain proficient) 2. FIGHTER (expertise) 3. WIZZIE (imp trip) 4. WIZZIE (with true strike and other non-somatic spells) [+1] INT 5 SWASH (grace) 6 SWASH (insightful strike, combat reflexes) 7 WIZZIE 8. SPELLSWORD (improved disarm) [+1 CON] rest spell sword plus one level of an as yet undecided PrC that gives caster level at first level (geometer ?)
_m_ 11-23-06, 07:27 PM	if you can get access, mind bender makes an excelent 1 dip. gives you telepathy. able to comunicate with anything with a language.
clannagh 11-23-06, 07:56 PM	if you can get access, mind bender makes an excelent 1 dip. gives you telepathy. able to comunicate with anything with a language. Mind bender is AR access only ? revised to defer the 20% XP hit to a bit later grey elf STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 1. SWASH (finesse, chain proficient) 2. FIGHTER (expertise) 3. WIZZIE (with true strike and other non-somatic spells) (imp trip) 4. WIZZIE [+1] INT 5 WIZZIE (grace) 6 SWASH ( grace, combat reflexes) 7 SWASH (insightful strike) 8. SPELLSWORD [+1 CON] the rest spell sword plus one level of an as yet undecided PrC that gives caster level at first level (geometer ? mid bender ?)
_m_ 11-23-06, 08:07 PM	geometer is fairly unimpressve at first level. the only prc's in complete arcane that might be worth a 1 dip, other than mind bender, either have heanous pre reqs, dont add arcane at first, or are uselless to you (like a wayfearer guide). wild mage might be worth it if you can get the pre reqs in there sumwhere. would make your spells (sometimes) a fair chunk more powerfull. you also probably want to get practised spell caster, give yourself 4 more effective damage wiz levels.
clannagh 11-24-06, 12:44 AM	geometer is fairly unimpressve at first level. the only prc's in complete arcane that might be worth a 1 dip, other than mind bender, either have heanous pre reqs, dont add arcane at first, or are uselless to you (like a wayfearer guide). wild mage might be worth it if you can get the pre reqs in there sumwhere. would make your spells (sometimes) a fair chunk more powerfull. you also probably want to get practised spell caster, give yourself 4 more effective damage wiz levels. This build is feasible .. 1. SWASH (finesse, magical aptitude) 2. FIGHTER (chain proficiency) 3. Fighter (random meta feat,expertise) 4. wizzie 5 wild mage 6 wild mage (improved trip) 7. spell sword .. but I am a little unsure exactly how a wild mage with effective caster starting level of negative 2 is actually going to function ???
clannagh 11-24-06, 01:10 AM	getting closer .. how does this shape up ??? grey elf STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 1. SWASH (finesse, chain proficient) 2. FIGHTER (expertise) 3. WIZZIE (magic aptitude) [+1] INT 4 SWASH (grace) 5 SWASH (insightful strike) 6. WIZZIE (choose metamagic feat) 7. WILD MAGE (wild magic) 8. SPELLSWORD [+1 CON or STR] ignore 10% penalty 9 SPELLSWORD (imp trip and either combat reflexes or power attack if 13 STR) the power attack is for those situations where you are true striking for damage and hence can ignore finesse and use normal str based melee attacks
copper_wyrmling 11-24-06, 02:21 PM	I don't think Wild Mage is worth the feat and skill-point cost in this case, also you would need to find access. Unluck is now L3, btw (it changed between Complete Arcane and the Spell Compendium).
Mommy was an Orc 11-24-06, 03:43 PM	I think Swashbuckler 3 is something of a trap in this build - it encourages you to get higher than a 14 Int for a build that doesn't really use Int. But you're sacrificing Strength/Constitution in a melee build to do it.
Japangirl 11-24-06, 11:34 PM	Wild Mage is by Special Mission/AR access only. So it depends on your Triad if you can get access or not. The BK Triad has been fairly specific that they don't want to give it out. Mindbender is AR access/metaorg access only. I know of several BK metaorgs that give access to it at the second level of the organization, if you happen to live there.
_m_ 11-26-06, 05:32 PM	Wild Mage is by Special Mission/AR access only. So it depends on your Triad if you can get access or not. The BK Triad has been fairly specific that they don't want to give it out. Mindbender is AR access/metaorg access only. I know of several BK metaorgs that give access to it at the second level of the organization, if you happen to live there. there are a couple of mods that give you mind bender and mage of the arcane order, but they are no longer part of our region.
clannagh 11-27-06, 01:58 AM	I think Swashbuckler 3 is something of a trap in this build - it encourages you to get higher than a 14 Int for a build that doesn't really use Int. But you're sacrificing Strength/Constitution in a melee build to do it. I agree .. The character was built in about 3 minutes when I turned up to GM a low level game and ended up playing instead. It only has two games but i would like to salvage the build if i can. The traditional boring swashbuckler/Corellan Champion will not work with the spiked chain. Another build I considered was this one: STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8 mithral chain +1 , +1 spiked chain 1. Swashbuckler weapon finesse, exotic prof spiked chain 2. Monk stunning fist, flurry, impoved unarmed strike 3. Monk combat reflexes, evasion, expertise 4. fighter imp trip (+1 STR) 5. fighter improved disarm 6. Swashbuckler grace, weapon focus spiked chain 7. Swashbuckler insightful strike 8. exotic weapon master trick - flurry of strikes spiked chain (+1 STR) 9. exotic weapon master trick - stunning blow spiked chain, extra stunning the downside of this build is the poor tripping due to low STR again and it wastes the points put into int 17 .. but the real downside that caused me to abandon it and try for a spellsword was the pathetic DC of the stun attack overall i may be better running with just a straight wizzie with a funkie first swash level and spiked chain
Lupo 11-27-06, 08:24 AM	there are a couple of mods that give you mind bender and mage of the arcane order, but they are no longer part of our region. MotAO is promoted by some meta-organisations. you have to check your regions and the surroundings :). ciao martin m.
_m_ 11-27-06, 04:50 PM	MotAO is promoted by some meta-organisations. you have to check your regions and the surroundings :). ciao martin m. yeah,. but its kind of lame for a 1 dip.
Mommy was an Orc 11-27-06, 04:57 PM	the downside of this build is the poor tripping due to low STR again and it wastes the points put into int 17 .. but the real downside that caused me to abandon it and try for a spellsword was the pathetic DC of the stun attack overall i may be better running with just a straight wizzie with a funkie first swash level and spiked chain Something to consider is a tertiary caster build - one where you almost accidentally end up being able to cast spells, but it isn't your real intent. i.e. a Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 1/Ruathar 3/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 3 build. +13 BAB, casts spells as a 8th level Wizard, decent number of bonus feats. Use False Life and the feat Arcane Strike to really compete...
_m_ 11-27-06, 05:19 PM	Something to consider is a tertiary caster build - one where you almost accidentally end up being able to cast spells, but it isn't your real intent. i.e. a Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 1/Ruathar 3/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 3 build. +13 BAB, casts spells as a 8th level Wizard, decent number of bonus feats. Use False Life and the feat Arcane Strike to really compete... try and get one less or 1 more effective wizzard level. 8 is kind of dead. 9 would be nice :D
Lupo 11-27-06, 05:38 PM	yeah,. but its kind of lame for a 1 dip. my bright desert dwarven wizard is planning to go wiz 5/MotAO 4/fatespinner 4 remaining levels undecided. the MotAO is a zero invest/gain prestige class as the silly "cooperative spell" is repaid for with a free feat at second level and knowledge arcana 8 ranks is a no brainer for any wiz anyway. the spellpool is a nice feature, and even better considering crafting wonderous items, you HAVE access to any (low to mid wiz) PHB spell for crafting early on. ciao martin m.
_m_ 11-27-06, 05:56 PM	my bright desert dwarven wizard is planning to go wiz 5/MotAO 4/fatespinner 4 remaining levels undecided. the MotAO is a zero invest/gain prestige class as the silly "cooperative spell" is repaid for with a free feat at second level and knowledge arcana 8 ranks is a no brainer for any wiz anyway. the spellpool is a nice feature, and even better considering crafting wonderous items, you HAVE access to any (low to mid wiz) PHB spell for crafting early on. ciao martin m. if i hadnt gotten access to shadowcaster, i would have at least 4 dipped into it.
Mommy was an Orc 11-27-06, 06:41 PM	try and get one less or 1 more effective wizzard level. 8 is kind of dead. 9 would be nice :D In a build like that, it doesn't really matter. Level 15 is where you could choose to lose a level for Spellsword 4. But you couldn't gain one without sacrificing a feat - which are more important to the build. The thing about tertiary casters - they're more concerned with what they do well, rather than exactly how many caster levels they have.
_m_ 11-27-06, 06:43 PM	In a build like that, it doesn't really matter. Level 15 is where you could choose to lose a level for Spellsword 4. But you couldn't gain one without sacrificing a feat - which are more important to the build. The thing about tertiary casters - they're more concerned with what they do well, rather than exactly how many caster levels they have. touché.
clannagh 11-27-06, 10:38 PM	i.e. a Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 1/Ruathar 3/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 3 build. +13 BAB, casts spells as a 8th level Wizard, decent number of bonus feats. Use False Life and the feat Arcane Strike to really compete... thats kinda what i am trying to do the Ruathar is probably the solution to the problem I was playing with wild mage to solve .. a class which adds to existing spell levels that is available to a level 1 wizard, thanks for that suggestion !!! Does anyone know how difficult Ruathar access is ? Does it require a special mission or can you just get a DM to note on an appropriate AR when you fulfil the "helping elves" requirements ?
Britt 11-28-06, 12:24 AM	Anything that is a prerequisite or game mechanic needs to be specifically noted on the AR, at print, not by the DM. A special mission is also a good option, since this is a fairly easy prereq to meet.
Mommy was an Orc 11-28-06, 09:33 AM	Does anyone know how difficult Ruathar access is ? Does it require a special mission or can you just get a DM to note on an appropriate AR when you fulfil the "helping elves" requirements ? If you're near Keoland, Keoland metaorgs basically offer it for helping a little old elven lady cross the road...