Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tahldrehlian 03-01-07, 06:00 PM	So, what does everyone think of a Knight 7/Champion of Corellon 8?
Haro 03-01-07, 06:52 PM	So, what does everyone think of a Knight 7/Champion of Corellon 8? I like his policies on Health and stance on ethics but I just can't envision progress under someone so unskilled. My vote goes to Ftr4/Swb 3/CoC. He gets the job done with finesse, has a wide range of skills and can call on a number of strategies while in office. This is a political forum right? Joe
jstorrie 03-01-07, 07:25 PM	Not a great idea, since Champions of Corellon can't be lawful.
King Kashue 03-01-07, 07:43 PM	Not a great idea, since Champions of Corellon can't be lawful. Who says? The only alignment requirement is that they can't be evil.
jstorrie 03-01-07, 07:55 PM	They have to worship Corellon Larethian... and he's CG.
Howie23 03-01-07, 08:09 PM	Who says? The only alignment requirement is that they can't be evil. That's the book requirement. The campaign requirement, per the deity document, is that he be within one step of CG. This discussion normally comes up with Paladins of Corellon, but it's the same situation. David
King Kashue 03-01-07, 08:13 PM	They have to worship Corellon Larethian... and he's CG. And? You only have to be within a step of your God's alignment if you're a cleric, paladin or favored soul. "In the following notes, references to cleric/favored soul include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which requires a specific deity, such as black flame zealot, church inquisitor, consecrated harrier, contemplative, divine crusader, divine prankster, pious templar, radiant servant, sacred exorcist, shining blade, stormlord, and temple raider" (Deities Document, p. 2) It's only spellcasting prestige classes, which can be a little unclear from the wording, but is clear from the examples which excludes classes like "Eye of Gruumsh" (and which are all spellcasting classes)...
King Kashue 03-01-07, 08:13 PM	That's the book requirement. The campaign requirement, per the deity document, is that he be within one step of CG. This discussion normally comes up with Paladins of Corellon, but it's the same situation. David *points to above post* It would apply to Paladins, since they're a spellcasting class, but not to Knights :D And just to head off the "they wouldn't mention the Eye of Gruumsh because it's closed", they do mention the Black Flame Zealot, which is also closed (both were NPC-only at the writing) Unless I've missed an official answer on the subject (damn this board's lack of search function :D)
Tahldrehlian 03-01-07, 09:44 PM	Yeah, I was originally making a Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 3/Champion (which is what the standard build is normally...from what I've seen)... Until I noticed that Champion says Non-Evil not Non-Lawful.
ithardin 03-02-07, 12:39 PM	My champion lives in the Gnarley Wood (wood elf), his build to Champion was based on wearing heavy armor so a lot of Swashbuckler wasn't considered: Fighter4/Swashbuckler1/Ranger2/Champion9 Right now he is 5th level (Fighter4/Swashbuckler1). I didn't mind the XP penalty when it was JUST XP (he he he). Since he is a wood elf the ranger levels won't increase the penalty-but it is something I will have to live with in-game and I have resigned myself to that (although I wish they had devised another way to discourage "capstone" PCs-why I should get less gold for doing the SAME job as the rest of the party is beyond me). Before I am stoned for this not being an "optimum" build it works very well with our regional flavor in Verbobonc.
Zanzibax 03-02-07, 01:22 PM	*points to above post* It would apply to Paladins, since they're a spellcasting class, but not to Knights :D And just to head off the "they wouldn't mention the Eye of Gruumsh because it's closed" Would the Eye of Gruumsh be opened if we gave Gruumsh lots of caffeine? :rimshot:
Mommy was an Orc 03-02-07, 07:38 PM	It's only spellcasting prestige classes, which can be a little unclear from the wording, but is clear from the examples which excludes classes like "Eye of Gruumsh" (and which are all spellcasting classes)... Evangelists are not a spellcasting class in the next paragraph.
King Kashue 03-02-07, 08:52 PM	Evangelists are not a spellcasting class in the next paragraph. They're also not part of the list of examples. "In the following notes, references to druid/paladin include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which DOES NOT requires (sic) a specific deity, but for which the character has chosen to serve a specific deity, such as Divine Oracle, Entropomancer, Holy Liberator, Hospitaler, Ranger, Sacred Fist, Seeker of the Misty Isle, and Warpriest. It also includes Evangelists who choose to represent a specific diety." List of spellcasting classes and Prcs, then a full stop (list over). Then another class which the druid/paladin reference includes that doesn't fit in the previous list (hence the "also", i.e., "in addition").
Mommy was an Orc 03-02-07, 09:05 PM	They're also not part of the list of examples. "In the following notes, references to druid/paladin include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which DOES NOT requires (sic) a specific deity, but for which the character has chosen to serve a specific deity, such as Divine Oracle, Entropomancer, Holy Liberator, Hospitaler, Ranger, Sacred Fist, Seeker of the Misty Isle, and Warpriest. It also includes Evangelists who choose to represent a specific diety." I'm pointing out that classes that don't spellcast can be considered part of that group - it makes it overwhelmingly likely that Champion of Corellon, which was published after LG Deities 2.0 will be part of LG Deities 3.0 in the 1st group. If you're making a Knight 7/Champion of Corellon 8 right now, odds are you won't be legal as a Lawful Good character...
King Kashue 03-03-07, 02:19 AM	I'm pointing out that classes that don't spellcast can be considered part of that group - it makes it overwhelmingly likely that Champion of Corellon, which was published after LG Deities 2.0 will be part of LG Deities 3.0 in the 1st group. Races of the Wild came out before the Deities document, and is mentioned within the current 2.0 document. It was not published after. It's entirely possible you're correct in general, however this claim is demonstrably false.
Howie23 03-05-07, 03:47 AM	And? You only have to be within a step of your God's alignment if you're a cleric, paladin or favored soul. "In the following notes, references to cleric/favored soul include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which requires a specific deity, such as black flame zealot, church inquisitor, consecrated harrier, contemplative, divine crusader, divine prankster, pious templar, radiant servant, sacred exorcist, shining blade, stormlord, and temple raider" (Deities Document, p. 2) It's only spellcasting prestige classes, which can be a little unclear from the wording, but is clear from the examples which excludes classes like "Eye of Gruumsh" (and which are all spellcasting classes)... I guess the question becomes whether the sentence diagramming has divine spellcasting modifying both class and prestige class or just class. As it stands, it appears ambiguous to me. David
King Kashue 03-05-07, 04:09 AM	I guess the question becomes whether the sentence diagramming has divine spellcasting modifying both class and prestige class or just class. As it stands, it appears ambiguous to me. David Indeed. Though I think the examples (particularly the manner in which Evangelist is included separate from the spellcasting classes), is suggestive. However, as I said to MwaO, he could be right in general, and Steve just didn't think to include it (even though the RoW book was out).