Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nagareth 05-19-07, 01:08 AM	Hello I'm Nagareth. At one point in time I was looking into a Occult Slayer Archer. I was going to go Wood Elf Ranger 2 / Fighter 8 / Occult Slayer 5. A powerful build (casters look out). I've done some thinking and I'd like to keep my listen, spot, hide, move silently, knowledge nature, and survival skills up to par. I'm the kind of player that shows up to Living Greyhawk each week with a new character. This is because: 1. The old character is dead 2. The old character lacks personality and depth. I find that many Greyhawk characters are min-maxed and built for power. I don't mind power but I find that the more I get caught up in power builds, and min-maxing the least I enjoy a truely rounded character. (my character's classes and stats have make sense with my view of the character, and min maxed lack that flavour) I need some advice on how I can find a balance between power and roleplaying. The Character I invision is a Wood Elf named Aldarion (Elvish for "Son of the Forest"). He has shoulder length red hair (tied back in braids) and bright blue eyes. I want him to have knowledge of creatures (nature) and the ability to survive in the woods (survival). I see him as more of a sneak around in the shade (hide & move silently) kind of ranger. He also is really keen and hard to get a drop on (listen & spot). Very Scout like. I want to make him an archer. All I need is a build that doesn't have too much multiclassing that will drop me behind in those 6 skills. I also don't see him as stupid or un-wise. However I do invision him as withdrawn, verbally blunt (but honest) and fairly serious (this elf is not aloof but not uptight). So an 8 chrisma is okay. I'd be very grateful for advice that would help me build a fairly enjoyable core character that will not be left in the dust by the 100 damage dealing a round min-maxed, power built, rule elitist character.
dkay807 05-19-07, 01:39 AM	Wood Elf Ranger 15. I believe that meets all of your requirements, even the part about the red hair and braids. That was easy. Okay... in case you wanted something less... simple... you might want to look at Improved Skirmish and Swift Hunter, two feats from Complete Scoundrel that might make it pretty fun to play a Ranger/Scout.
dkay807 05-19-07, 01:40 AM	I'd be very grateful for advice that would help me build a fairly enjoyable core character that will not be left in the dust by the 100 damage dealing a round min-maxed, power built, rule elitist character. Also, 100 damage a round at APL 12+ is relatively weak these days.
jstorrie 05-19-07, 01:53 AM	Ranger 11 / Fighter 4 is nice and simple. If you retrain frequently, you don't lose too many skill points, and getting Weapon Specialization / Ranged Weapon Mastery significantly increases your damage. I'd start with Ranger 2, then all four levels of Fighter, then Ranger until you're done: 1 Ranger: Track, Point Blank Shot 2 Ranger: Rapid Shot 3 Fighter: Precise Shot, Quick Reconnoiter 4 Fighter: Weapon Focus 5 Fighter 6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization, Woodland Archer 7 Ranger: Endurance 8 Ranger 9 Ranger: Ranged Weapon Mastery 10 Ranger: Manyshot 11 Ranger 12 Ranger: Improved Precise Shot (retrain at 15) etc. Your stats are pretty easy to set up–Strength, then Dexterity and Constitution, then Wisdom and Intelligence. I don't really recommend pushing your Hide/Move Silently up too much at the low levels, but in the mid-levels you'll probably have some item access that makes stealth scouting worthwhile.
UMiskatonic 05-19-07, 02:03 AM	I don't think you have that big of a problem. You just need a change in outlook. I got to the same point myself. I got beyond, by asking myself "What is the worst character I could have, and still get through this mod? What is the worst character I could have, and still participate as a member of the table?" Not that I make the worst character, by any means. But I decided against one level of Hospitaler for my mounted paladin, even though it meant one feat more. I decided I didn't need it, and could get through as ftr 2/paladin 8. Occasionally spent gold just for effect, like paying Rich upkeep just to look good. These choices were easy to do, because I knew who Sayyid was, and what he was about. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Power is easy to add, and I think you know how to do it. There's also lots of help available. A good character is much harder, and is best done by yourself. But here's something to get you started.... 1) Why is Aldarion an adventurer? Why doesn't he stay home and make horsehoes? 2) What made him decide to work so hard at becoming an archer? How did he begin? 3) Why does he hate arcanists? What happened, elves are normally pro-wizard? 4) How is he different from other elves, or other rangers? Once you start to have a sense of who he is (and not just what he looks like), you'll be able to make decisions that roll naturally outward. Maybe he'll always carry a tanglefoot bag, cuz wizards are usually too weak to break free. Maybe he'll never use anything blue, since a blue robed wizard killed his girlfriend. THEN, make him powerful within the boundaries that you have already set.
Mommy was an Orc 05-19-07, 08:48 AM	I think you've got two different issues: You want something you can roleplay You want not to die Making a powerful build won't stop you from dying(in fact, it tends to encourage DMs to focus on you...) - so why are you dying? Do you get ahead of the rest of the party? Do you overestimate how easy it will be to survive X? Do you waste actions trying to do things you shouldn't be doing?
Nagareth 05-19-07, 02:27 PM	Question: Why is Aldarion an adventurer? Why doesn't he stay home and make horsehoes? Anwser: When Aldarion was young he didn't want to have anything but a laid back life (go hunting, farm, have kids, etc). However his ideal was not realistic to the world. As he grow and started to understand the history and status of the elves he worried more for their future. He believed that to make a difference "one" had to act. Thus he became interested in the protecters of the woods (the rangers and druids). Question: What made him decide to work so hard at becoming an archer? How did he begin? Anwser: Aldarion worked hard to become an archer because he believed that the true power of the elves were in magic and nature. He became a ranger to protect and perserve what was left of the elves. He also seeks to rekindle the glory of the elven race. He began by seeking the rangers who protected the boarders from orcs and evil humans and started his training. Question: Why does he hate arcanists? What happened, elves are normally pro-wizard? Anwser: I'm not doing the Occult slayer build. Aldarion does not hate casters and believe that magic and nature are the elves best defence and offence. Question: How is he different from other elves, or other rangers? Anwser: Aldarion is different in that he seeks more to rebuild the elven race to its past glory then to adventure and "worship trees". Although he is kind, good hearted and loves song, magic, and sword (like many elves) he has a serious of a man (elf) on a mission. He will never stop until he has crushed his enemies and risen the elves in stature. As far as I know most ranger are not about that. Thus he left the protective boards of his home-land and began his "mission". Anwser to "Mommy was an Orc's question" I like to stay in the middle or back of the party. I shot whatever the big fighter is hitting (double team) and I'm not scaried of pulling out a greatsword to hit something if being an archer is not working. However I'm not one to run ahead and attack but I am one to sneak ahead and scout. I don't build my characters to take on X number of X I just build them and see what happens.
Mommy was an Orc 05-19-07, 02:47 PM	Anwser to "Mommy was an Orc's question" I like to stay in the middle or back of the party. I shot whatever the big fighter is hitting (double team) and I'm not scaried of pulling out a greatsword to hit something if being an archer is not working. However I'm not one to run ahead and attack but I am one to sneak ahead and scout. I don't build my characters to take on X number of X I just build them and see what happens. I'm not talking specifically about your archer. You've got characters dying on a regular basis - what seems to be the common thread?
Mattastrophic 05-19-07, 10:48 PM	Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking that what's on your character sheet determines whether the character has personality and depth. That one's all on how you decide to work with what's on your character sheet. "Effective" and "Roleplay" can coexist, no matter what anyone tells you. Luckily, it's not something you see on this board often; I mainly see it from the "My characters suck at combat because they're built for roleplaying!" crowd. -Matt
Nagareth 05-20-07, 02:03 AM	I guess the common thread with all my character deaths is close combat. I charged a Sea Cat with a level 1 Human Fighter (Nagareth) and got rended for 24 damage the next round, turns out that it will not leave the water so going near it was a bad idea (oops). I had my level 1 Half-Orc Barbarian (Konark) drown in a river with his whole party (don't ask). Last session my Level 1 Human Barbarian (Kyle Stableson) died by a raging level 3 Gnoll barbarian who crited me for 43 damage with a sythe.... and that was an APL 2 mod. Those are the only character deaths I've had. So I guess the thread would be getting too up close and personal too quickly with someone who is really big and nasty.
Timlagor 05-20-07, 07:18 AM	Sounds likely. It's generally better to wait for melee critters to come to you (especially if they get more attacks than you do -ask the GM if they have big claws). I must say I'm impressed that you managed to drown ...with a Barbarian! -that takes some doing.
Nagareth 05-21-07, 12:49 AM	Yeah I had to run to the bathroom really badly and while I was away the whole party decided to try and swim a big river. The DM decided that the party would decide what my character would be doing as I was away. I came back 5 minutes later and the whole party was 90ft under. I was 50 ft under with 9 rounds of air to go. The other members died and I was on my way to the surface but the DM just decided to make it TPK (I'm not bullshiting you). I didn't really care because it was that character's first session and I try not to leave the table anymore. If I have to leave the table I take my character sheet with me and give direct orders not to manipulate my character without my consent.
KShaver 05-21-07, 08:47 AM	Honestly it sounds like a lot of your deaths may be due to how the games are run. Have you played much with other GMs, particularly those who aren't involved in the normal group you game with?
Nagareth 05-21-07, 10:34 AM	I've played a few games with a select number of DMs. Lance: Lance is a great DM and a really cool guy. He can make an adventure very fun. However every time I play with Lance I die. He plays the monsters in the most deadly way any DM can. He is the only DM I know that can make a goblin a scary thing for your character. He is the DM that used the sea cat and the barbarian gnoll. Steve: Steve is really cool he has a good sense of humor and manners. However he the kind DM that thinks "that goblin is there for the party to kill" and everytime we will kill it. Thus monsters are not as much a threat. However he believes that a party walks together, sleeps together and dies together. You don't ever split the party to do so would bring the wrath of Steve (shiver, quake). He is the DM that drown the whole party in the raging river. Alex: Good ole Alex. What nice things can I say... Alex is smart and knows the rules of D&D as well as any DM at the LG games (in my city). He has a good heart and over all is a really nice guy. He is the kind of DM that is by the book. He never changes a roll and he gives you no clues. Lets say he is not a incompetant DM. However his adventures are as dry as a desert. All the characters he builds are for power (this guy is the biggest power gamer I have ever seen, I think level 18-21 is the highest any character should go. Alex has done games for level 50-70 characters I guess thats just his playing style). I've never died in Alex's game (he doesn't normally kill players). Those are the three main DM's I've played with.