Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaelforcwynd 01-22-07, 01:40 AM	Ok how's this for a Cleric build. I'm in Perrenland, so I may be forfeiting some benefits of worshipping an Old Kirk core deity. CG/NG/CN (depending on what PrC I might take in future) Human Cleric of Lirr DOMAINS Magic: Use scrolls, wands and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a Wizard of one-half your Cleric lvl (at least 1st lvl). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a Wizard, actual Wizard lvls and these effective Wizard lvls stack. Travel: For a total time per day of 1 round per Cleric lvl you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds). This granted power is a supernatural ability. Add Survival to your list of Cleric class skills. ABILITY SCORES STR: 10 (0) DEX: 12 (+1) CON: 14 (+2) INT: 10 (0) WIS: 16 (+3) CHA: 10 (0) The 2 extra points can go in either STR, INT or CHA depending on several factors. If I want to increase my carrying capacity and attack rolls, then STR is the way to go. For extra skill points and the ability to cast Arcane spells from scrolls as a Wizard of half my Cleric level, then INT is good. But if I want to increase my Turning ability, CHA is essential. I'm thinking STR might be the most important, if I want to eventually wear full plate. With 10 STR I couldn't even wear scale mail (35lbs), a buckler (5lbs) and a morningstar (6lbs) without the load being a medium one. It all depends on whether I take the Craft Wondrous Item Feat later or gain access to Ability score modifying gear, like Gauntlets of Ogre Power. SKILLS Concentration - Max Heal - At least 5 ranks Knowledge (Arcana) - At least 5 ranks Knowledge (Religion) - Max Spellcraft - Max All depending on PrC really. FEATS Improved Initiative Skill Focus: Concentration Perhaps Scribe Scroll instead of one of those. If I can get Contemplative later, I can take the Rune Domain which gives Scribe Scroll as a bonus Feat. But that would be towards the end of the character's career (Knowledge Religion 13 Ranks being the limiting factor), so it would be pretty worthless by then. I'm going to see what other PrC's I could take and flesh it out as a 10th lvl character after I have a look at the CD. All feeback welcome.
jstorrie 01-22-07, 02:57 AM	It's not that bad to be under a medium load. Your movement would be restricted by medium armor anyway.
Gaelforcwynd 01-22-07, 03:08 AM	It's not that bad to be under a medium load. Your movement would be restricted by medium armor anyway. Oh okay. So does that mean wearing full plate automatically puts you under a heavy load, even though it weighs 50lbs and would only count as a medium load if carried?
jstorrie 01-22-07, 03:58 AM	The penalties for load and for armor overlap, so if you're already taking a -3 armor check penalty and a speed reduction, you lose very little by taking on a medium load. Likewise if you're already taking a -6 you lose very little with a heavy load.
UMiskatonic 01-22-07, 10:47 AM	You only have a 12 Dex. Why not go with full plate? Let's face it, even with the armor off, clerics are not going to be good at tumble and balance. Might as well be safe. You don't double up on armor/encumbrance penalties. I'd go with the INT, and be good at using wizard items. Magic domain is a poor man's mystic theurge. Watch out, turning is tough in LG. You need to go for it with everything you have, or write it off as a loss.
Gaelforcwynd 01-22-07, 10:38 PM	You only have a 12 Dex. Why not go with full plate? Let's face it, even with the armor off, clerics are not going to be good at tumble and balance. Might as well be safe. You don't double up on armor/encumbrance penalties. I'd go with the INT, and be good at using wizard items. Magic domain is a poor man's mystic theurge. Watch out, turning is tough in LG. You need to go for it with everything you have, or write it off as a loss. Full plate is my first choice, but scale mail is all I will be able to afford at 1st lvl. My question regarding weight/encumbrance is whether wearing armour classified as Heavy Armour, automatically puts you into the category of bearing a Heavy Load. Or is your load category calculated by what carried weight (armour) your STR score classifies as a Light, Medium or Heavy weight? I would go for INT, but by the time I can use 1st lvl Arcane scrolls, I would be about 6th lvl (i don't have the book with me atm), so it's not that important, but the extra skill points would be a bonus too. As far as CHA goes, I don't much care about turning, I'd rather use CHA buffs for Turning if it becomes really necessary. I'd have a few scrolls of Eagle's Splendour on me, or use a spell which confers turning power to a high CHA party memeber. I'd rather have wands of Fireball, scrolls of Mirror Image, a +1 attack/damage bonus, the capacity to bear my weapons and armour as a medium load, extra skill points etc.
UMiskatonic 01-22-07, 11:09 PM	Sure, no one can buy full plate at 1st level. 4th level is the typical purchase point, delayed a bit if you go for a magic weapon first. Here's my understanding of it. Calculate the weight of every last thing you are holding, including armor. That determines your encumbrance category (light load, etc.) Then, look at your armor type. Use the one that's worse. Since the penalties for heavy armor are generally worse than the encumbrance penalties, don't worry about encumbrance. ----------------------------------------------- This is usually only a problem for rogues and rangers, who need to stay under their light load limit. Light armor is a part of that, but they ALSO have to stay under their weight limit. It's also likely that wizards with a lot of gear will move at 20', since they usually can't carry a lot. Clerics are usually fine, as long as they don't exceed their maximum load.
Arinaad 01-23-07, 12:10 PM	Welcome to the clergy. That being said, don't expect to find metaorgs to support you... ever... I have been searching for 4 years, if anyone knows of one, please let me know. I have found that the build is best suited with the Knowledge and Travel domains. Knowledge is great as it grants fantastic spells. Magic is overated, but using scrolls and wands as a wizard is usefull. I looked over the spells granted and find that Magic really doesn't help you out any until 7th lvl when you get Imbue with Spell Ability... other than that it's not really worth it. Arinaad
Gaelforcwynd 01-25-07, 01:25 AM	Welcome to the clergy. That being said, don't expect to find metaorgs to support you... ever... I have been searching for 4 years, if anyone knows of one, please let me know. I have found that the build is best suited with the Knowledge and Travel domains. Knowledge is great as it grants fantastic spells. Magic is overated, but using scrolls and wands as a wizard is usefull. I looked over the spells granted and find that Magic really doesn't help you out any until 7th lvl when you get Imbue with Spell Ability... other than that it's not really worth it. Arinaad I'm new to the RPGA, so I'm not exactly sure what bonuses you miss out on by not being part of a regional church. In Perrenland you can join the non-Kirk temples metaorg. Maybe there are region specific feats such as Survival that I can't get bonuses on but I'm not taking those kind of feats anyway. Also, I still would have access to equipment through the non-Kirk temples metaorg. Maybe there's something I'm missing though, I don't know for sure, like I said I'm new. Another reason I chose Lirr is that she has the Rune domain. If I became a Contemplative later, I could take that decent domain. Also, if the opportunity arose, a level in Church Inquisitor would be awesome, for the Inquisition domain and dispel bonus. I'm not sure if my alignment would allow it though, I'll have to check. I doubt I would even get the chance to fulfill the contact requirements for those 2 PrC's anyway. As far as the Magic and Travel domains go, just imagine a flying, teleporting, wand wiedling Cleric, who can't be paralyzed or grappled! Even if most of the lower level Magic domain spells are weak, having a spare Dispel Magic, being able to cast Imbue with Spell Ability, Spell Resistance and Antimagic Field on a party member or myself in certain situations could be quite useful. Most of the domain spells I would use would be from the Travel domain anyway. Like you said, the Knowledge domain has some great spells, but it's Granted Power is pretty weak.
Ramacass 01-29-07, 12:48 AM	I'm new to the RPGA, so I'm not exactly sure what bonuses you miss out on by not being part of a regional church. In Perrenland you can join the non-Kirk temples metaorg. Maybe there are region specific feats such as Survival that I can't get bonuses on but I'm not taking those kind of feats anyway. Also, I still would have access to equipment through the non-Kirk temples metaorg. Maybe there's something I'm missing though, I don't know for sure, like I said I'm new. Another reason I chose Lirr is that she has the Rune domain. If I became a Contemplative later, I could take that decent domain. Also, if the opportunity arose, a level in Church Inquisitor would be awesome, for the Inquisition domain and dispel bonus. I'm not sure if my alignment would allow it though, I'll have to check. I doubt I would even get the chance to fulfill the contact requirements for those 2 PrC's anyway. As far as the Magic and Travel domains go, just imagine a flying, teleporting, wand wiedling Cleric, who can't be paralyzed or grappled! Even if most of the lower level Magic domain spells are weak, having a spare Dispel Magic, being able to cast Imbue with Spell Ability, Spell Resistance and Antimagic Field on a party member or myself in certain situations could be quite useful. Most of the domain spells I would use would be from the Travel domain anyway. Like you said, the Knowledge domain has some great spells, but it's Granted Power is pretty weak. I play a cleric with the travel domain and it is very useful but does not protect you against grappleing. It only protects against magical effects that affect your movement. Now as for paralyzed. hmmmm. It does effect your movement, but not directly. I don't know how that would work with the granted power. Anyone else have any ideas.
Ramacass 01-30-07, 12:54 AM	I just checked my books. Yes it does prevent paralyis. Nifty, but it would be great if it helped against grappling. Is there an official ruling or errata that says the travel domain's granted power works for grappling aswell?
jstorrie 01-30-07, 12:58 AM	No, there is no official ruling or errata that says that.
Gaelforcwynd 01-31-07, 03:34 AM	I just checked my books. Yes it does prevent paralyis. Nifty, but it would be great if it helped against grappling. Is there an official ruling or errata that says the travel domain's granted power works for grappling aswell? It seems to make sense that this supernatural ability, functioning as a freedom of movement spell as indicated in the description, could also be used against grapples. Perhaps you would have to have already declared that you are activating the ability for the grapple check to succeed, but even if you are grappled, you could activate it in the next round, escape the grapple as free actions. Does this seem like a reasonable interpretation? PBH - CHAPTER 11: SPELLS TRAVEL DOMAIN Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds). This granted power is a supernatural ability. PBH - CHAPTER 11: SPELLS Freedom of Movement This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin. The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Crazy Boro 01-31-07, 12:46 PM	I've never seen it used for grapple effects unless they were done through magical sources (Evards, Telekinesis). It's just that the actual domain power lists it as "you can act normally regardless of magical effects".
Gaelforcwynd 01-31-07, 01:26 PM	I've never seen it used for grapple effects unless they were done through magical sources (Evards, Telekinesis). It's just that the actual domain power lists it as "you can act normally regardless of magical effects". It's still not clear to me whether you are totally under the effects of a freedom of movement spell in regard to all of that spells effects, or just any magical effects that it would counter. It's still good for getting out of paralysis though.