Cliche Build! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cliche Build! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LachlarlanIII
03-14-07, 11:13 AM Race: Dwarf

Str 15, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 6

1: Beguiler 1 - Combat Reflexes
2: Fighter 1 - *Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
3: Fighter 2 - Power Attack, *Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)
4: Fighter 3 - Str 16
5: Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization (Spiked Chain)
6: Dragon Disciple 1 - Hold the Line
7: Dragon Disciple 2 - Str 18
8: Dragon Disciple 3 - Str 19
9: Dragon Disciple 4 - Lunging Strike, Str 21
10: Dragon Disciple 5
11: Dragon Disciple 6 - Con 20
12: Dragon Disciple 7 - Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing), Str 22
13: Dragon Disciple 8 - Int 12
14: Dragon Disciple 9
15: Dragon Disciple 10 - Improved Flight, Str 26, Cha 8

*Bonus Fighter Feat

I called this build Cliche because it contains both the Spiked Chain and Dragon Disciple.

The build has 32 Str at 15th level with a Belt +6, has three attacks at +30/+25/+20, and deals 2d4+25 damage with a +5 Chain.

I could drop 2 levels of Fighter for 2 levels of Barbarian at the cost of 1 damage dealt, Weapon Specialization, and Melee Weapon Mastery, but would gain 30 more hp (while raging) and could replace the lost feats with Extra Rage.
cetiken
03-14-07, 07:46 PM Seems a wast to not be able to cast your level 1 beguiler spells.
jstorrie
03-14-07, 07:57 PM He can if he wears a mithril breastplate, which I imagine this build might want to do, given an expected Dex bonus of +4 (+2 natural, +2 from Gloves of Dex 4). But without any good swift combat spells, it's not a huge loss.

Not that I wouldn't consider building around four Sorceror casting levels if possible, for Bladeweaves and Critical Strikes.
delewobmesid
03-14-07, 08:01 PM how do you get 8 ranks in kw arcana with this build?
Timlagor
03-14-07, 08:41 PM Retraining.
cetiken
03-14-07, 09:02 PM He can if he wears a mithril breastplate, which I imagine this build might want to do, given an expected Dex bonus of +4 (+2 natural, +2 from Gloves of Dex 4). But without any good swift combat spells, it's not a huge loss.

Not that I wouldn't consider building around four Sorceror casting levels if possible, for Bladeweaves and Critical Strikes.

Um... No. I was refering the the reliance on a Headband of Intellect to cast spells. I'd personally drop wisdom to 8 and bump int to 12.

Beguiler 1 has some good out of combat stuff. Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self just to name three. It would slightly reduce his will save, but I'd make that trade most of the time. Not to mention the increased playability at level 1.
LachlarlanIII
03-14-07, 09:34 PM how do you get 8 ranks in kw arcana with this build?

Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill.

From the other 4 levels, I'll be buying cross-class ranks to make 8 ranks at 5th.
wooti
03-14-07, 09:39 PM What about going to beguiler 4, I believe they have a cleric bab so you wouldn't lose BAB just some hp and 2 feats but would have 2nd level spells (inv, mirror image, see inv, glitter dust etc.)
Hariman
03-20-07, 11:47 PM If you are going for pure high STR damage, then adding in Barbarian and Reckless Rage (STR 38!) is one way to go. But you lose ALL spellcasting during rage.

CHA Casting Classes don't work well with this build.
clannagh
03-21-07, 12:16 AM well a truly cliche chain fighter would have expertise/improved trip and maybe EWM-flurry ;)
Zanzibax
03-21-07, 08:50 AM Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill.

From the other 4 levels, I'll be buying cross-class ranks to make 8 ranks at 5th.

You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level.

You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training.
Rerednaw
03-21-07, 09:48 AM You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level.

You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training.

I thought max ranks in a skill was level +3. Cross-class simply means you pay 2 points per point.
LachlarlanIII
03-21-07, 09:49 AM You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level.

You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training.

Yes, you can. Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill.

1: Beguiler 1 = 4 ranks at 4 class skill points
2: Fighter 1 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points
3: Fighter 2 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points
4: Fighter 3 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points
5: Fighter 4 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points

1-5 = 8 ranks total.
Grantor
03-21-07, 01:11 PM You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level.

You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training.

From the SRD:
The maximum rank in a class skill is the character’s level + 3. If it’s a cross-class skill, the maximum rank is half of that number (do not round up or down).
Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class skill for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level + 3.
Zanzibax
03-21-07, 01:46 PM Oh
Zanzibax
03-21-07, 01:48 PM For any of the classes...hmmm...
Morgen
03-21-07, 02:18 PM I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there....
LachlarlanIII
03-21-07, 03:30 PM I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there....

Perhaps. Is there any profit to be made from it? (My actual DD character is a loyal worshiper of Zilchus)

PS: Would you mind signing this contract?
Zanzibax
03-21-07, 03:48 PM I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there....

You're Hungry?
cetiken
03-21-07, 07:15 PM Wow. Try to do a bit more research before you call people wrong.

Read on to the multiclass characters section of the SRD.
If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)
Morgen
03-22-07, 07:29 PM Supposedly there is some pesky no Dragon Diciples allowed rule I don't feel are just. Something about dragons coming down and attacking us if we show up. I'd like to do something about that if I could.

That and my lands in Tehn could use the added funds to rebuild on. So good adventure and funds should be had by all.
Zanzibax
03-23-07, 09:38 AM Wow. Try to do a bit more research before you call people wrong.

Read on to the multiclass characters section of the SRD.

Ease up...I come here to be wrong so it doesn't detract from a game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LachlarlanIII 03-14-07, 11:13 AM	Race: Dwarf Str 15, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 6 1: Beguiler 1 - Combat Reflexes 2: Fighter 1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) 3: Fighter 2 - Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) 4: Fighter 3 - Str 16 5: Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization (Spiked Chain) 6: Dragon Disciple 1 - Hold the Line 7: Dragon Disciple 2 - Str 18 8: Dragon Disciple 3 - Str 19 9: Dragon Disciple 4 - Lunging Strike, Str 21 10: Dragon Disciple 5 11: Dragon Disciple 6 - Con 20 12: Dragon Disciple 7 - Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing), Str 22 13: Dragon Disciple 8 - Int 12 14: Dragon Disciple 9 15: Dragon Disciple 10 - Improved Flight, Str 26, Cha 8 *Bonus Fighter Feat I called this build Cliche because it contains both the Spiked Chain and Dragon Disciple. The build has 32 Str at 15th level with a Belt +6, has three attacks at +30/+25/+20, and deals 2d4+25 damage with a +5 Chain. I could drop 2 levels of Fighter for 2 levels of Barbarian at the cost of 1 damage dealt, Weapon Specialization, and Melee Weapon Mastery, but would gain 30 more hp (while raging) and could replace the lost feats with Extra Rage.
cetiken 03-14-07, 07:46 PM	Seems a wast to not be able to cast your level 1 beguiler spells.
jstorrie 03-14-07, 07:57 PM	He can if he wears a mithril breastplate, which I imagine this build might want to do, given an expected Dex bonus of +4 (+2 natural, +2 from Gloves of Dex 4). But without any good swift combat spells, it's not a huge loss. Not that I wouldn't consider building around four Sorceror casting levels if possible, for Bladeweaves and Critical Strikes.
delewobmesid 03-14-07, 08:01 PM	how do you get 8 ranks in kw arcana with this build?
Timlagor 03-14-07, 08:41 PM	Retraining.
cetiken 03-14-07, 09:02 PM	He can if he wears a mithril breastplate, which I imagine this build might want to do, given an expected Dex bonus of +4 (+2 natural, +2 from Gloves of Dex 4). But without any good swift combat spells, it's not a huge loss. Not that I wouldn't consider building around four Sorceror casting levels if possible, for Bladeweaves and Critical Strikes. Um... No. I was refering the the reliance on a Headband of Intellect to cast spells. I'd personally drop wisdom to 8 and bump int to 12. Beguiler 1 has some good out of combat stuff. Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self just to name three. It would slightly reduce his will save, but I'd make that trade most of the time. Not to mention the increased playability at level 1.
LachlarlanIII 03-14-07, 09:34 PM	how do you get 8 ranks in kw arcana with this build? Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill. From the other 4 levels, I'll be buying cross-class ranks to make 8 ranks at 5th.
wooti 03-14-07, 09:39 PM	What about going to beguiler 4, I believe they have a cleric bab so you wouldn't lose BAB just some hp and 2 feats but would have 2nd level spells (inv, mirror image, see inv, glitter dust etc.)
Hariman 03-20-07, 11:47 PM	If you are going for pure high STR damage, then adding in Barbarian and Reckless Rage (STR 38!) is one way to go. But you lose ALL spellcasting during rage. CHA Casting Classes don't work well with this build.
clannagh 03-21-07, 12:16 AM	well a truly cliche chain fighter would have expertise/improved trip and maybe EWM-flurry ;)
Zanzibax 03-21-07, 08:50 AM	Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill. From the other 4 levels, I'll be buying cross-class ranks to make 8 ranks at 5th. You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level. You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training.
Rerednaw 03-21-07, 09:48 AM	You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level. You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training. I thought max ranks in a skill was level +3. Cross-class simply means you pay 2 points per point.
LachlarlanIII 03-21-07, 09:49 AM	You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level. You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training. Yes, you can. Beguiler gives Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill. 1: Beguiler 1 = 4 ranks at 4 class skill points 2: Fighter 1 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points 3: Fighter 2 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points 4: Fighter 3 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points 5: Fighter 4 = 1 rank at 2 cross-class skill points 1-5 = 8 ranks total.
Grantor 03-21-07, 01:11 PM	You can't make 8 ranks with cross-class ranks at 5th level. You'd have to take beguiler as your 5th level class...and I think that's true even with re-training. From the SRD: The maximum rank in a class skill is the character’s level + 3. If it’s a cross-class skill, the maximum rank is half of that number (do not round up or down). Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class skill for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level + 3.
Zanzibax 03-21-07, 01:46 PM	Oh
Zanzibax 03-21-07, 01:48 PM	For any of the classes...hmmm...
Morgen 03-21-07, 02:18 PM	I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there....
LachlarlanIII 03-21-07, 03:30 PM	I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there.... Perhaps. Is there any profit to be made from it? (My actual DD character is a loyal worshiper of Zilchus) PS: Would you mind signing this contract?
Zanzibax 03-21-07, 03:48 PM	I enjoy a good cheesy dragon disciple. My Paladin/Warmage/Dragon Diciple of Bahumat will welcome the company. Care to get together and raid Highfolk someday? Need to prove something over there.... You're Hungry?
cetiken 03-21-07, 07:15 PM	Wow. Try to do a bit more research before you call people wrong. Read on to the multiclass characters section of the SRD. If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)
Morgen 03-22-07, 07:29 PM	Supposedly there is some pesky no Dragon Diciples allowed rule I don't feel are just. Something about dragons coming down and attacking us if we show up. I'd like to do something about that if I could. That and my lands in Tehn could use the added funds to rebuild on. So good adventure and funds should be had by all.
Zanzibax 03-23-07, 09:38 AM	Wow. Try to do a bit more research before you call people wrong. Read on to the multiclass characters section of the SRD. Ease up...I come here to be wrong so it doesn't detract from a game.