Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vortex2099 03-25-07, 03:51 AM	Hey Guys, Im just getting started into LG although ive been playing D&D for several years. Im looking for a great combat cleric build and i only have a few stipulations. 1. Must be a Dwarf 2. 16 Con (after racial) 3. good weap (not a mace!!) 4. at least up to 5th lvl spells. please include full builds with rationales, i havent been able to decide on a build myself and have not been all to creative as of late so the more deatils the better. Thanks in advance!
bhale187 03-25-07, 09:59 AM	Diety-Gendwar Argrim Domains-War and choice of Destruction or Law S-16 D-10 C-16 I-10 W-15 C-6 Cleric 1 Combat casting/WF: Dwarf War Axe CLeric 2 Cleric 3 Craft Wonderous Item Cleric 4 Cleric 5 Cleric 6 Power Attack Cleric 7 War Priest 1 (Rally Domain) WP 2 Craft Arms/Armor (inflame) WP 3 WP 4 WP 5 Glorious Weapons (flear aura) WP 6 (heroes feast) WP 7 (haste x3) WP 8 choice feat This is nothing spectacular, but I have never seen a combat cleric that was really spectaular in the LG setting. You will be casting as a level 11 cleric at 15, but from your description that is more than enough for what you want. You'll be great at low level melee and end up decent in melee for higher levels, but you are also able to give alot of boosts for your compainions as well as still be an effective healer through out the progression. Buy full plate as soon as you can afford it, and than start saving money for Pearls of Power, prayer beads and fighter type items like Str boosting magic.
zoinks69 03-25-07, 12:04 PM	Having played a combat cleric until about 8, here's my suggestions: You can be a melee guy for a while, but after apl 8ish, most tables are going to expect you to be a caster (buffs and healing) and that usually necessitates staying out of combat. Not that you can't wade in, but you'll spend so much time buffing yourself (Divine Power, Righteous Might, etc) that the combat is either over (without your help) or in dire straights (dead buddies that might not be dead if you had buffed the party...). If you can accept that you'll be a caster later on, you should build in that direction. bhale187's build isn't bad, though I'm not a fan of Warpriest. S-14 (6) -- 16 is do-able if you dump dex D-12 (2) -- To maximize the dex bonus of the full plate you'll eventually wear C-16 (6) -- Always good. I-10 (2) -- 2 Skill points a level instead of the 1 minimum W-16 (10) -- +3 to DC, bonus 3rd level spell, etc Ch-6 (0) -- with the -2 from being a dwarf, you won't be turning much unless you want to dump other stats. Cleric 1-15 all the way Deity: Gendwar Argrim with Domains War and Destruction Feats - 1. Weapon Focus (Waraxe) for free. I'd swing 2handed, depending on party make-up. 1. Extra Smiting -- not fantastic at low levels, but you'll have a great to-hit bonus and the damage goes up every level. 3. Power Attack -- Convert some of that to-hit from Smites into Damage (2 for 1 when 2 handing). At level 3 you'll have +2 bab, +2 (or more) Str, +1 Weapon Focus, +4 when you smite, maybe +1 with a Masterwork weapon-- +9 (or more) to hit at level 3 ain't shabby. Power attack for 2, 2handed means +7 (or more) to hit, 1d10+10 (3 str, 4 power attack, 3 smite damage) -- not shabby at level 3 even if it's *only* 3x a day. 6. Craft Wondrous -- crank out Pearls of Power and other nifty doodads later on. 9. Consider a metamagic feat such as Quicken, Reach, Empower, Chain. Most of them aren't useful at 9 but you get them out of the way for later levels where you might take a feat that has pre-requisites. Chain requires another metamagic, so you might go Quicken at 9, Chain at 12? 15 is pretty open, you should know what you're good at by that point ;)
Timlagor 03-25-07, 01:59 PM	Think hard before dumping charisma: not because you'll turn anything but because there are nice Feats out there that are fueled by Turn Attempts.
Lupo 03-25-07, 03:10 PM	Hey Guys, Im just getting started into LG although ive been playing D&D for several years. Im looking for a great combat cleric build and i only have a few stipulations. 1. Must be a Dwarf 2. 16 Con (after racial) 3. good weap (not a mace!!) 4. at least up to 5th lvl spells. please include full builds with rationales, i havent been able to decide on a build myself and have not been all to creative as of late so the more deatils the better. Thanks in advance! a somehow "conservative" build dwarven cleric st 14 (6) dex 10 (2) con 14+2 (6) in 10 (2) wi 15 (8) ch (10 (4) clangedin silverbeard domains: strength, war (more creative: competition, war) 1: cleric 1: sacred vengeance (CD) (if in a undead heavy region, otherwise just take power attack) 2: cleric 2: 3: cleric 3: craft wondrous items 4: cleric 4: 5: cleric 5 (or church inquisitor 1 if access gained): [could start church inquisitor earlier but would get another BAB +0 level) 6: cleric 6 (or church inquisitor 2 if access gained): craft arms&armor 7: cleric 7 (or church inquisitor 3 if access gained): 8: cleric 8 (or church inquisitor 4 if access gained): 9: cleric 9 (or church inquisitor 5 if access gained): power attack (or glorious weapons (CD), if power attack already taken) 10: cleric 10 (or church inquisitor 6 if access gained): 11: cleric 11 (or church inquisitor 7 if access gained): 12: cleric 12 (or church inquisitor 8 if access gained): divine armor (PHB II) 13: cleric 13 (or church inquisitor 9 if access gained): 14: cleric 14 (or church inquisitor 10 if access gained): 15: cleric 15 (or cleric 6): quicken spell solid full caster progression, competition domain gives some nice spells and an unnamed bonus to all opposed checks. enough ch to make use of the turning attempts with "sacred vengeance", "glorious weapon" and "divine armor". church inquisitor just to add some flavor and get another domain, not actually needed for anything. ciao martin m.
zoinks69 03-25-07, 06:50 PM	Inquisitor is nothing to sneeze at. Inquisition domain is solid if you can get access. Also consider Contemplative for yet another domain (more domains means you're having more fun ;) It's difficult to throw out a build like that to someone as you'll never know if you have access. Best advice if you want to be a cleric and you want to have a happy table -- be willing to sacrifice! Still, I think it'd be fun to be smiting every round at low levels.
Lupo 03-25-07, 07:20 PM	Inquisitor is nothing to sneeze at. Inquisition domain is solid if you can get access. Also consider Contemplative for yet another domain (more domains means you're having more fun ;) It's difficult to throw out a build like that to someone as you'll never know if you have access. Best advice if you want to be a cleric and you want to have a happy table -- be willing to sacrifice! Still, I think it'd be fun to be smiting every round at low levels. the church inquisitor is somehow hard to find for a specific god, unless you can manage to get a special mission, your region is (in)-famous for iconoclasm OR the character is a pholtian - you know, heresy is mandatory under the followers of the blinding light :P (c'mon, i couldn't resist). contemplative is a bad choice for any "fighting" cleric, only d6 and wizard BAB progression does not make a good frontliner ;) ciao martin m.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-25-07, 07:25 PM	Race: Dwarf Alignment: Lawful Neutral Deity: Gendwar Agrim (War+Destruction) STR-14 (6) DEX-10 (2) CON-14 (6)+2 INT-8 (0) WIS-15 (8) CHA-14 (6)-2 Lv1(Cleric)Extra Turning, Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe) Lv2(Cleric) Lv3(Cleric)Craft Wondrous Item Lv4(Cleric)+1 WIS Lv5(Cleric) Lv6(Cleric)Divine Armor Lv7(Cleric) Lv8(Warpriest)Glory Domain, +1 STR Lv9(Warpriest)Power Attack Lv10(Warpriest) Lv11(Warpriest) Lv12(Warpriest)Craft Magic Arms & Armor, +1 STR Lv13(Warpriest) Lv14(Warpriest) Lv15(Warpriest)Feat Divine Armor from PHB2 lets you spend a turn attempt as a swift action to gain DR5/- for one round. 10 Dex is no loss anymore, with Heavy Plate from Races of Stone being open access. The Craft feats are invaluable, and Power Attack is an obvious choice. And you only end up with 6th level spells, so 16 wis and a +6 periapt handle that. Last feat is up to you, but probably won't add much to the build...
Vortex2099 03-26-07, 03:38 AM	Thanks for all the posts so far, i was at a con all weekend and like everything i have read so far. I need to figure out exactly where i want to go with the cleric. I really like the warpriest build ideas especially jays. im looking at the builds and am going to try and come up with a concept either tonight or tomorrow and ill let you guys have a crack at it. Again, thanks for all the input so far and please post any further insight, a guy like me needs all the help he can get. also if it helps, my home region is Bandit Kingdoms.
Evanta 03-26-07, 06:36 AM	Jay appears to have forgotten the combat casting required for the warpriest though. My off-beat suggestion: Cleric 12 / PT 4 (Still Destruction + War) Lv1 (Cleric) True believer, Bonus Weapon Focus Lv2 (Cleric) Lv3 (Cleric) Craft Wondrous Item Lv4 (Cleric) +1 WIS Lv5 (Cleric) Lv6 (Cleric) Extra Smite / Divine Vigor (your choice) Lv7 (Cleric) Lv8 (Cleric) Lv9 (Pious Templar) Power Attack Lv10 (Pious Templar) Lv11 (Pious Templar) Weapon Specialisation Lv12 (Pious Templar) Weapon Mastery, Extra Smite / Divine Vigor Lv13 (Cleric) Lv14 (Cleric) Lv15 (Cleric) More smite? You still get lvl 6 spells by the end of the progression, have a lot of smiting goodness as well as a lot of oomph in your weapon that you can further buff with ur spells and stuff.
Vortex2099 03-26-07, 06:52 AM	Cleric 1-15 Diety:Gendwar Argrim Domains: Destruction, War Str: 14 (6) Dex: 10 (2) Con: 16 (6) Int: 12 (4) Wis: 14 (6) Cha: 10 (4) 1: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), Extra Smite 2: 3: Craft Wonderous Item 4: Wis +1 5: 6: Craft Arms and Armor 7: 8: Wis +1 9: Divine Armor 10: 11: 12: Wis +1 Power Attack 13: 14: 15: (Not sure what ill put here yet) Sorry about the funky layout, this is a copy from my own notes and ill put more notes on other lvls for myself. Anyway, Ill use items to supplement strength and as was said earlier i think ill only get to fight for a while and in special circumstances. When I can fight, Divine Power will give me all the BAB I need and all in all I think the extra spell levels will be more valuable then the prestige specs. Let me know what you all think, suggestions will be greatly appreciated as well as totally different builds, ive still not set my cleric in stone. Although I may mix it up to dip into fighter and or Pious Templar, fighter for bonus fighting feats and PT for Mettle (its really really good).
Timlagor 03-26-07, 09:20 AM	"Sacred Vengeance" does not exist in Complete Divine and I don't know it from anywhere else... have you got the name and/or book wrong?
Lupo 03-26-07, 09:48 AM	"Sacred Vengeance" does not exist in Complete Divine and I don't know it from anywhere else... have you got the name and/or book wrong? uhps, sorry, it is from complete warrior :) basically you burn a turn attempt as a free action to get 2d6 extra melee damage versus undead until the end of your round. it isn't ueber cheese, it doesn't run until your next turn, so no AoO with it (unless you do a tricky: it is my turn? i delay but activate "sacred vengeance"), but adds some solid punch against undead. very helpful at low levels, where you really want to get the skeletons and zombies down FAST ;). may be retrained later, when you have a bane [undead] weapon, otherwise just keep it to smack undead with weapon plus strength + 2d6 [bane] + 2d6 [sacred vengeance] per hit ;) ciao martin m.
Maesto 03-26-07, 11:19 AM	I've seen two (what I believe to be) solid cleric melee builds. Human STR 14 DEX 10 CON 14 WIS 15 INT 10 CHA 12 Cleric8/Sacred Exorcist7, bump Wisdom. Feats of Power Attack, Extra Turning, Disciple of the Sun, Quicken, Craft Wondrous Item, Augment Healing (by 12th level). You're a strong caster, and can craft most of your gear. Pick up heavy plate or fullplate, make it adamantine for dr3/-, and you're set. Divine Power is your friend, as is quickened divine favour. Buff your AC using shield of faith and magic vestments. Domains as you desire. Build is strongly geared towards being a) able to turn undead, b) cast all manner of spells, c) be able to wade in and tank. Not very skills focused. If you go dwarf, change extra turning for something else and drop disciple of the sun, dump charisma to get to strength 16 and you're set. But then again, you're just another dwarf with charisma 6. Alternative: Dwarf Str 18 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 6 Cleric all the way. Again, looking to pick up adamantine fullplate or heavyplate, using gloves of dex to boost up to 12 or 10 as necessary. Feats include craft wondrous, power attack, and quicken spell. Augment healing won't go astray. Domains vary, although war isn't bad at all (another divine power? yes thanks!), and competition also adds some punch. A domain that grants cat's grace will get you your gloves of dex cheaply. You're a fighter who spends a round to buff using divine power. High level spellslots go to quickened spells mostly.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-07, 12:31 PM	Race: Dwarf Alignment: Lawful Neutral Deity: Gendwar Agrim (War+Destruction) STR-14 (6) DEX-10 (2) CON-14 (6)+2 INT-8 (0) WIS-15 (8) CHA-14 (6)-2 Lv1(Cleric)Extra Turning, Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe) Lv2(Cleric) Lv3(Cleric)Craft Wondrous Item Lv4(Cleric)+1 WIS Lv5(Cleric) Lv6(Cleric)Divine Armor Lv7(Cleric) Lv8(Warpriest)Glory Domain, +1 STR Lv9(Warpriest)Power Attack Lv10(Warpriest) Lv11(Warpriest) Lv12(Warpriest)Craft Magic Arms & Armor, +1 STR Lv13(Warpriest) Lv14(Warpriest) Lv15(Warpriest)Feat Divine Armor from PHB2 lets you spend a turn attempt as a swift action to gain DR5/- for one round. 10 Dex is no loss anymore, with Heavy Plate from Races of Stone being open access. The Craft feats are invaluable, and Power Attack is an obvious choice. And you only end up with 6th level spells, so 16 wis and a +6 periapt handle that. Last feat is up to you, but probably won't add much to the build... Whoops, can't believe I forgot about Combat Casting...I guess I hate how useless it is so much I blocked it out...Could do combat casting at 1st, then push extra turning all the way back to 15th, and rely on cloak of charisma for more turn attempts till then...Not all that expensive with craft wondrous item at your disposal.
Munkwunk 03-26-07, 01:33 PM	I play a (half-orc) combat cleric at 12th, and have spent the last several mods playing at APL 14, and I still get to wade in to combat more often than not. Generally you will adventure with other clerics, and even if you don't then you simply need to make the best of your abilities. Augment Healing is, IMO, one of the best feats a combat cleric can take. More healing per per spell cast = fewer casts needed = more time spent doing what you do best. Augment Healing + Insignia of Healing (spell, RoD) = happy party. You'll need 10 INT to pull it off though, since Augment Healing requires a few ranks in the Heal skill and you really don't want to sacrifice your Concentration skill by dumping ranks. That being said, unless you do plan on going War Priest, I would suggest you also pick up the Steady Concentration feat at some point, since being able to take 10 on all Concentration checks means you won't have to risk losing your spells for casting defensively, which is something you will be doing often. Mobile Spellcasting is also good for a cleric with only 20 feet of movement. If you don't have Power Attack by 3rd level, just don't bother. That is a key feat to any two-handed melee build, especially to a cleric build, and you can't afford to put it off until the latter half of your levels. Finally, keep your buffs in check; if you have to spend more than one round buffing to be effective in combat, scrap your ideas and start over. It's okay to burn one Standard on Divine Power as you close with the enemy, especially since you gain so much from that one spell, but don't keep buffing after that. If you spend every combat casting Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Divine Favor the combat is going to be over before you take your first swing. There will be very occasional times when you actually get the chance to fully buff yourself out, and that's fun as heck, but don't waste your actions to do it all the time. Also, pick the right spell for the job. Divine Power means you can power attack a bit more, but don't over do it; keep your power attack penalties to -2 or -3, until you have established that the enemy has a terribly low AC and you can give it all you've got. In some cases, you will want reach more than BAB, so bust out Righteous Might instead. If you want to be helpful to the party and there are a lot of other melee types around, you can cast Righteous Wrath of the Faithful instead. Obviously, at low levels you'll be casting things like Divien Favor, Bless, and Prayer instead. The key thing that I'm going to stress again though is not to over-buff. In most cases, you only need 1 spell to make yourself more effective in combat, so don't waste actions (and spells/day) on overkill. If you have enough spells/day to burn, Quickened Divine Favor at higher levels might be a nice buf too. In general, you will want to make your character as effective at melee as you can before you include buffs, since there will be times when you're not able to buff yourself out; wear heavy plate, an animated heavy shield, and carry a big axe. You don't need a load of combat feats if you have Power Attack, just make sure you only PA for a couple of points at a time, especially pre-buffing. With a bit of thoughtful consideration in regards to spell selection, opportunity cost of casting a given spell, etc. you can play a combat cleric all the way to 15th and have fun doing it. Just make sure you are capable of healing when it's necessary, but don't over-heal either. It's a tough balance to strike, but it's very rewarding when you can churn out 160 damage in one round and heal the party back to full in the next.
Timlagor 03-26-07, 07:06 PM	Power Attack can wait 'til 6th now that you don't have to take a PHB Feat at 1st. You won't be casting Divine Power yet and you're to-hit isn't so high that PAing a lot is really optimal (you have to hit first!) You certainly don't want to wait until 9th though.
Vortex2099 03-26-07, 11:06 PM	Okay, Ive reworked the character and I think Ive found the best way to put it together. Cleric 1-15 Diety:Gendwar Argrim Domains: Destruction, War Str: 14 (6) Dex: 10 (2) Con: 16 (6) Int: 12 (4) Wis: 14 (6) Cha: 10 (4) 1: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), Power Attack 2: 3: Craft Wonderous Item 4: Wis +1 5: 6: Extra Smite 7: 8: Wis +1 9: Craft Arms and Armor 10: 11: 12: Wis +1 13: 14: 15: When it comes to combat ill supplement Str with Divine Power (eventually). Smite gives me loads of extra Attack and Damage bonuses. I still need to figure out what I want to do for 12th and 15th feats, but ill worry about that in a couple years when Its necessary. I decided to ditch Divine armor and instead get some adamantine armor. What do you guys think?
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-07, 11:40 PM	Okay, Ive reworked the character and I think Ive found the best way to put it together. Cleric 1-15 Diety:Gendwar Argrim Domains: Destruction, War Str: 14 (6) Dex: 10 (2) Con: 16 (6) Int: 12 (4) Wis: 14 (6) Cha: 10 (4) 1: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), Extra Smite 2: 3: Power Attack 4: Wis +1 5: 6: Craft Wonderous Item 7: 8: Wis +1 9: Craft Arms and Armor 10: 11: 12: Wis +1 13: 14: 15: When it comes to combat ill supplement Str with Divine Power (eventually). Smite gives me loads of extra Attack and Damage bonuses. I still need to figure out what I want to do for 12th and 15th feats, but ill worry about that in a couple years when Its necessary. I decided to ditch Divine armor and instead make some adamantine armor. What do you guys think? Extra Smiting requires BAB+4...so you move power attack to 1st, craft wondrous item at 3rd, and extra smiting at 6th. Also, as a full cleric you should drop INT to 10 and bump wis to 15, so you make full use of the 3 bumps. And you can't MAKE adamantine armor. You'd have to buy it once you get access. You can enhance it yourself after that, but getting it to begin with can be difficult.
Vortex2099 03-27-07, 12:35 AM	Fixed Build order, thanks for the critique Jay. Im open for any other ideas, but this looks pretty solid. Im not gonna worry about lvls 10+ for a while cuz access may cause my direction to deviate. Thanks for everyones input.
zoinks69 03-27-07, 02:01 AM	Extra Smiting requires BAB+4...so you move power attack to 1st, craft wondrous item at 3rd, and extra smiting at 6th. Also, as a full cleric you should drop INT to 10 and bump wis to 15, so you make full use of the 3 bumps. And you can't MAKE adamantine armor. You'd have to buy it once you get access. You can enhance it yourself after that, but getting it to begin with can be difficult. Ugh, that's kinda lousy. Thanks for noticing the prereq for Extra Smite. Kind of a bummer to not be able to throw those around at the low levels :(
Lupo 03-27-07, 07:17 AM	Okay, Ive reworked the character and I think Ive found the best way to put it together. Cleric 1-15 Diety:Gendwar Argrim Domains: Destruction, War Str: 14 (6) Dex: 10 (2) Con: 16 (6) Int: 12 (4) Wis: 14 (6) Cha: 10 (4) 1: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), Power Attack 2: 3: Craft Wonderous Item 4: Wis +1 5: 6: Extra Smite 7: 8: Wis +1 9: Craft Arms and Armor 10: 11: 12: Wis +1 13: 14: 15: When it comes to combat ill supplement Str with Divine Power (eventually). Smite gives me loads of extra Attack and Damage bonuses. I still need to figure out what I want to do for 12th and 15th feats, but ill worry about that in a couple years when Its necessary. I decided to ditch Divine armor and instead get some adamantine armor. What do you guys think? i think the gendwar argrim limitation on gold pieces works bad in conjunction with craft arms&armor and especially with craft wondrous, but with some careful planning one might get it done. as a fighting cleric consider to get "quicken spell" in as early as it makes sense - level 9 or your still open level 12 feat - to get a "shield of faith" or "protection from evil" up as a swift action. ciao martin m.
Gaelforcwynd 03-27-07, 10:33 AM	Divine Armor from PHB2 lets you spend a turn attempt as a swift action to gain DR5/- for one round I'll drink to that. :pint:
Vortex2099 03-27-07, 03:56 PM	ill def consider quicken. The idea of a buff that doesnt take a round of combat is extremely appealing. And the downside for having xtra gp lying around isnt earth shattering.