Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Farkon 08-13-07, 06:26 PM	Hi there, I'm completely new to online DnDing and Living Greyhawk, but right now I've managed to read a ton of information about this and I've made a character. I'm not sure if it's in the right format (or if this is the right sub-forum to get help)... If someone could help me to correct it and guide me that would be cool. Farkon Male Gray Elf Sorcerer 1 Chaotic Good Strength 10 (+0) Dexterity 12 (+1) Constitution 9 (-1) Intelligence 12 (+1) Wisdom 9 (-1) Charisma 17 (+3) Size: Medium Height: 5' 0" Weight: 105 lb Skin: Light Eyes: Amber Hair: Silver; Beardless Total Hit Points: 4 Speed: 30 feet Armor Class: 11 = 10 +1 [dexterity] Touch AC: 11 Flat-footed: 10 Initiative modifier: +1 = +1 [dexterity] Fortitude save: -1 = 0 [base] -1 [constitution] Reflex save: +1 = 0 [base] +1 [dexterity] Will save: +1 = 2 [base] -1 [wisdom] Attack (handheld): +0 = 0 [base] Attack (unarmed): +0 = 0 [base] Attack (missile): +1 = 0 [base] +1 [dexterity] Grapple check: +0 = 0 [base] Light load: Medium load: Heavy load: Lift over head: Lift off ground: Push or drag: 33 lb. or less 34-66 lb. 67-100 lb. 100 lb. 200 lb. 500 lb. Languages: Common Draconic Elven Light Mace [1d6, crit x2, 1 lb, light, bludgeoning] Light Crossbow [1d8, crit 19-20/x2, range inc 80 ft., 4 lb, piercing]] Snake familiar Feats: Eschew Materials Traits: Skill Name Key Ability Skill Modifier Ability Modifier Ranks Misc. Modifier Appraise Int 1 = +1 Balance Dex* 1 = +1 Bluff Cha 7 = +3 +1 +3 [snake] Climb Str* 0 = +0 Concentration Con 3 = -1 +4 Craft_1 Int 1 = +1 Craft_2 Int 1 = +1 Craft_3 Int 1 = +1 Diplomacy Cha 3 = +3 Disguise Cha 3 = +3 Escape Artist Dex* 1 = +1 Forgery Int 1 = +1 Gather Information Cha 3 = +3 Heal Wis -1 = -1 Hide Dex* 1 = +1 Intimidate Cha 3 = +3 Jump Str* 0 = +0 Knowledge (arcana) Int 5 = +1 +4 Listen Wis 1 = -1 +2 [elf] Move Silently Dex* 1 = +1 Perform_1 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_2 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_3 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_4 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_5 Cha 3 = +3 Profession Wis 0 = -1 +1 Ride Dex 1 = +1 Search Int 3 = +1 +2 [elf] Sense Motive Wis -1 = -1 Spellcraft Int 3 = +1 +2 Spot Wis 1 = -1 +2 [elf] Survival Wis -1 = -1 Swim Str** 0 = +0 Use Rope Dex 1 = +1 * = check penalty for wearing armor If the familiar is within reach, +2 on spot and listen ("alertness"). Zero-level Sorcerer spells: 5 per day First-level Sorcerer spells: 4 (3+1) per day Gray Elf: * +2 dexterity / +2 intelligence / -2 strength / -2 constitution (already included) * Immune to magical sleep * +2 racial bonus to saves vs. enchantments * Low-light vision * Proficient with longsword, rapier, longbow && shortbow * +2 racial bonus on listen, search, and spot checks * Notice secret doors Sorcerer: * Familiar / Alertness, etc. * Can know only limited numbers of spells * High charisma gains bonus spells daily Class HP rolled Level 1: Sorcerer 4 Farkon's Equipment: 5 lb 6 lb 2 lb 5 lb 2 lb 5 lb 3 lb 10 lb 1 lb _____ 39 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above) Crossbow bolts (quiver of 10) x6 Backpack Bedroll Bottle Bucket Crowbar Rations (1 day) x3 Rope (50', hempen) x1 Soap Total Snake familiar: Str 6 Dex 17 Con 11 Int 6 Wis 12 Chr 2; Hit points: 1; Initiative +3 (dex); Speed 15 ft., climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.; AC: 18 (+2 size, +3 dex, +2 natural, +1 level); bite +5 melee, poison; Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +3, Balance +11, Climb +12, Hide +18, Listen +8, Spot +8; weapon finesse (bite) Alertness feat when in arm's reach; improved evasion; share spells; empathic link; More about Farkon: Farkon's cannot remember being told any details about his birth. Farkon grew up in a forested area. he was raised by his parents in a tribal community. During his travels Farkon made a lifelong enemy. Farkon has some friends, none close.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-13-07, 06:42 PM	First of all...there's no reason at all to make a grey elf sorcerer. Regular Elf or Halfling are way better (Halfling because of the lack of con penalty, save bonus, and size bonuses), or human because the bonus skill points make up the INT difference and they get a bonus feat. You very much want 14 con no matter what your character is...
ToddMorgan 08-13-07, 06:47 PM	Your point buy is a little off. You get 28 points, not 24. I love Grey Elves. I have a warmage right now, but Sorcerer is also awesome. I'd use these stats: Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:14 Wis: 10 Cha: 16 As for feats, I love the Infernal Heritage feat progression, but Draconic Heritage is also awesome. I'd go one of those routes, or go Metamagic Specialist in the Greyhawk Ruins.
cetiken 08-13-07, 07:10 PM	First off read the character creation guidelines here - http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LGCS_597_v7-5.zip Second as my friends here have noted you're stat buy isn't quite right - at a guess, you rolled 'm yourself. If you need help with the point buy alternate method used by LG we are more than willing to demonstrate efficient point buys. Opinions vary. You might also want to look at the Grayhawk Ruins sourcebook, as it could prove relevant. Finally, remember to have fun.
Farkon 08-13-07, 09:56 PM	Alright, I've fixed up my character sheet and formated it into a copy and pastable form. The only things that I think are missing are my spells and their stats and such. I'm just not quite sure what to get... A huge spell list+feat list would be nice. ;) (Yea I've been looking around but to no avail.) Character name: Farkon Player: Farkon Class and level: Sorcerer 1 Race: Gray Elf Alignment: Chaotic Good deity: none Size: Medium Age: 46 Gender: Male Height: 5' 0" Weight: 105 lb Eyes: Amber Hair: Silver; Beardless Skin: Light Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 14 (+2) Constitution 12 (+1) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 16 (+3) Total Hit Points: 5 Armor Class: 12 = 10 +2 [dexterity] Wounds/current hp: 5 Nonlethal damage: n/a Speed: 30 feet Damage reduction: 0 Touch AC: 11 Flat-footed: 10 Initiative modifier: +2 = +2 [dexterity] Fortitude save: +1 = 0 [base] +1 [constitution] Reflex save: +2 = 0 [base] +2 [dexterity] Will save: +2 = 2 [base] Base attack bonus: +0 Spell resistance: 0 Grapple check: -1 = 0 [base] -1 [strength] Attack (handheld): -1 = 0 [base] -1 [strength] Attack (unarmed): -1 = 0 [base] -1 [strength] Attack (missile): +2 = 0 [base] +2 [dexterity] Skill Name Key Ability Skill Modifier Ability Modifier Ranks Misc. Modifier Appraise Int 2 = +2 Balance Dex* 2 = +2 Bluff Cha 6 = +3 +3 Climb Str* -1 = -1 Concentration Con 5 = +1 +4 Craft_1 Int 2 = +2 Craft_2 Int 2 = +2 Craft_3 Int 2 = +2 Diplomacy Cha 3 = +3 Disguise Cha 3 = +3 Escape Artist Dex* 2 = +2 Forgery Int 2 = +2 Gather Information Cha 3 = +3 Heal Wis 0 = +0 Hide Dex* 2 = +2 Intimidate Cha 3 = +3 Jump Str* -1 = -1 Knowledge (arcana) Int 6 = +2 +4 Listen Wis 2 = +0 +2 [elf] Move Silently Dex* 2 = +2 Perform_1 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_2 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_3 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_4 Cha 3 = +3 Perform_5 Cha 3 = +3 Profession Wis 1 = +0 +1 Ride Dex 2 = +2 Search Int 4 = +2 +2 [elf] Sense Motive Wis 0 = +0 Spellcraft Int 6 = +2 +4 Spot Wis 2 = +0 +2 [elf] Survival Wis 0 = +0 Swim Str** -1 = -1 Use Rope Dex 2 = +2 * = check penalty for wearing armor campaign: Living Greyhawk Home Region: Verbobonc Gear: Armor/Protective item: N/a Protective item: n/a Protective item: n/a Other possessions Crossbow bolts (quiver of 10) x4 4 lb Backpack 2 lb Bedroll 2 lb Bottle 0 lb Bucket 2 lb Rations (1 day) x3 3 lb Soap 0 lb Light Mace [1d6, crit x2, 1 lb, light, bludgeoning] Light Crossbow [1d8, crit 19-20/x2, range inc 80 ft., 4 lb, piercing]] Spell componet pouch 2 lb _____ 20 lb Total Light load: 26 lb. or less Medium load: 27-53 lb. Heavy load: 54-80 lb. Lift over head: 80 lb. Lift off ground: 160 lb. Push or drag: 400 lb. Money cp - sp - gp - 50 pp - No familiar yet Feats: Eschew Materials Special Abilities: none Languages: Celestial Common Draconic Elven Spells: Specialty : none lvl 0: lvl 1: Spell save: ? Arcane Spell failure: ?% Zero-level Sorceror spells known: 4 Spell save DC: Zero-level Sorcerer spells: 5 per day Bonus spells: First-level Sorcerer spells known: 2 Spell save DC: First-level Sorcerer spells: 4 (3+1) per day Bonus Spells:
thunderspirit 08-14-07, 02:35 PM	Welcome to D&D and to Living Greyhawk. It helps to give the forum more than raw numbrs, especially when you're asking for input on feats and spells. How do you envision your character, what's his niche going to be? LG is a combat-focused environment, so that's a key consideration: what do you plan to do during combat encounters? As a sorceror, you have a very limited selection of spells, so you'll need to make them count. You can focus on offense (magic missile, color spray), buffing (enlarge person, mage armor), debilitation/battlefield control (grease, sleep)...each would predicate different spell selection and feat choices.
ToddMorgan 08-14-07, 02:48 PM	Your build is looking better. Your HP are actually going to be 6. At first level you get the full amount from your class, +1 plus your con mod. So you will have 4 + 1 + 1 = 6. Feats, I've mentioned Draconic Heritage and Infernal Heritage. These both can give you some offensive potential with the breath weapons they provide (Draconic Breath and Infernal Sorcerer Howl, respectively). If you wanted to focus your spells on battlefield control (grease, glitterdust, web, etc) then you can still be effective in most situations. If you don't go this route, go the metamagic specialist route from the new greyhawk ruins sourcebook. Take Empower, Sculpt, Quicken, and other Metamagic feats as you see fit. You can even take Craft Wondrous Item to get stat boosters more cheaply. Your positive Cha will help you be a face for the party. Full ranks in Spellcraft, concentration. Know (arcana) and since you will have skillpoints, perhaps max out bluff to help your face skills. Any extra points can be placed into Knowledge local, or speak language, or your Draconic Heritate class skill (if you take the feat).
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 05:13 PM	Your build is looking better. Your HP are actually going to be 6. At first level you get the full amount from your class, +1 plus your con mod. So you will have 4 + 1 + 1 = 6. It's just max HD +con mod at 1st level, so 5 is correct. Don't know where you are getting that extra +1 from. It's at subsequent levels that you get half of your hd +1 +con.
_metz_ 08-15-07, 04:48 AM	With the Grey elf sorcerer, you should drop the Cha to 15 and increase your Dex to 16. That way you take into account all three stat bumps at 4, 8 and 12, as well as having more AC/better at flinging scorching rays etc. Personally I feel That Halflings make much better sorcerers, as I am an avid supporter of at least 14 con in ANYTHING but a Grey Elf Wizard. (All my Elf fighting character builds start with 13 con for obvious reasons) And Jay_Ibero_911 is right, you are correct on the 5 hit points thing. A VERY important thing about your sorcerer is to decide a lot of his Spells now. In order to do this you need to decide if Farkon is going to be a 'blaster' sorcerer, a buffing sorcerer, etc. Spells I would suggest to take are: (lvl 0): Detect Magic, Read Magic, (lvl 1): Magic Missile, Mage Armour, (lvl 2): Scorching Ray, (lvl 3): Haste, Fireball, (lvl 5): Mass Fly, Wall of Force, (lvl 7): Limited Wish
Timlagor 08-15-07, 06:56 AM	You can live without Mage Armour, Fireball, Scorching Ray (you do need something damage-dealing beyond MM though unless you're very specialised) and even Wall of Force (which is 5th level) but the others I agree with. Dispel Magic shoud definitely be on that list. Clerics get better bonuses to CL but the ability to "spam" them can be extremely valuable against certain targets. I'd add Message as a Cantrip that doesn't need to be taken early but will be very handy from around level 5 ..and Daze is useful up to 3rd. There are already lots of threads about designing Sorceror Spell lists if you look for them.
_metz_ 08-15-07, 08:02 AM	Yeah, I like Mage armour on a sorcerer because they can cast it on the whole party if they are fighting ghosts, or save the poor monk some gold each mod... As for the Wall of Force, It's fun seeing them all get slammed down by the Sorceror... But yeah, plenty of other threads on that, Just making the point, you need to think that through as well...
CrystalBlue 08-15-07, 01:07 PM	While I do like sorcerers, I don't like their spell progression. It makes me sad. Like this. :( If you go for spontaneous caster and want to be a grey elf, go Beguiler :). You'll need the PHB II to do this, but it's a much better class. First off, you'll have d6 HD instead of d4. Second, you use your Int score to cast and for saves, and a Grey Elf is all up ons the Int game. And third, because of your cool Int stat, you have a bucketload of skill points in skills that are very useful. :D Tie that together with the ability to cast in light armor like a bard, and you're good! ^.^ So what are the cons? Obviously, it's the restricted spell list. You get a small amount of spells, all of which you get ala warmage, but you will not be getting any damage spells. As a beguiler, you get buffing, illusion, and enchantment. And being able to cast Haste about the same time as a sorcerer clinches the deal for me. :D Grey Elf Beguiler Str: 10 (-2 to 8) Dex: 8 (+2 to 10) Con: 16 (-2 to 14) Int: 18 (+2 to 20) Wis: 8 Cha: 8 You now have awesome saves, more skill points then you'll ever need, casting in light armor, and neat class abilities. Go for it. :D
Farkon 08-16-07, 12:20 AM	Thanks for all the advice and suggestions! I'm planning on becoming a debilitation/battlefield controller,a little bit of a buffer as well, and to have all those really good and useful spells. How does this spell list look so far? (I probably still need to plan more.) (leftmost = spell I'll learn first) level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic level 1:Magic missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person level 2: Web (eh will grease be enough or do I need web?) Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, False Life, level 3: Haste, Fly, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Level 4: Charm Monster (+ chain spell = weaker mass charm monster) Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Dimension Door, Confusion level 5: Teleport, Wall of Force, hold monster, Mass Fly, Telekinesis level 6: Disintegrate, Symbol of Fear, Mislead, Acid Fog level 7: Symbol of Stunning, Limited Wish, Plane Shift, Prismatic Spray level 8: Horrid Wilting, Power Word Stun, Mass Charm Monster level 9: Time Stop, Wish, Shades (this is what I have so far) As for the metamagic feats... um.... level 1: Extend spell [Metamagic] Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell *updated*
_metz_ 08-16-07, 12:30 AM	Polymorph is out man. Take Dimension Door instead (hey when you get grappled you'll love it!) Orb of Force is another Great spell (well just an orb of some sort, sometimes you are fighting golems and really need one!) Also, Hold Person isn't very good, I would suggest something else. Critters now get a save EVERY round to avoid it. Might I suggest Mass Fly as well? Its really THAT good...
Hariman 08-16-07, 03:08 AM	With the Grey elf sorcerer, you should drop the Cha to 15 and increase your Dex to 16. That way you take into account all three stat bumps at 4, 8 and 12, as well as having more AC/better at flinging scorching rays etc. Personally I feel That Halflings make much better sorcerers, as I am an avid supporter of at least 14 con in ANYTHING but a Grey Elf Wizard. (All my Elf fighting character builds start with 13 con for obvious reasons) And Jay_Ibero_911 is right, you are correct on the 5 hit points thing. A VERY important thing about your sorcerer is to decide a lot of his Spells now. In order to do this you need to decide if Farkon is going to be a 'blaster' sorcerer, a buffing sorcerer, etc. Spells I would suggest to take are: (lvl 0): Detect Magic, Read Magic, (lvl 1): Magic Missile, Mage Armour, (lvl 2): Scorching Ray, (lvl 3): Haste, Fireball, (lvl 5): Mass Fly, Wall of Force, (lvl 7): Limited Wish A good sorcerer shouldn't need limited wish. It's an XP draining crutch for sorcerers with incomplete spell lists. Delayed Blast Fireball, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Prismatic Spray, and a whole host of other seventh level spells are spells I'd take before Limited Wish. Unless you really want to drain XP by casting it. Oh, and make sure you have Mage Hand and Prestidigitation. They're really useful cantrips.
TWG_Prometheus 08-16-07, 10:55 AM	A good sorcerer shouldn't need limited wish. It's an XP draining crutch for sorcerers with incomplete spell lists. Delayed Blast Fireball, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Prismatic Spray, and a whole host of other seventh level spells are spells I'd take before Limited Wish. Unless you really want to drain XP by casting it. Oh, and make sure you have Mage Hand and Prestidigitation. They're really useful cantrips. I disagree about Limited Wish. Limited Wish is the ultimate toolbox spell for a Sorcerer. There will always be times when a Sorcerer doesn't have the right spell for the job, and Limited Wish lets them have it on the fly if they truly need it. (Plus the ability to grab spells from a Cleric's spell list if they really need it) Limited Wish probably wouldn't be my first 7th level spell selection for a Sorcerer, but it probably would be my default 2nd selection for 7th level spells.
_metz_ 08-16-07, 11:34 AM	Not to mention that by the time you are casting level 7 spells, losing some XP aint exactly a BAD thing...
Demoyn 08-17-07, 09:52 AM	So what are the cons? Obviously, it's the restricted spell list. You get a small amount of spells, all of which you get ala warmage, but you will not be getting any damage spells. That's not exactly true. There's an enchantment damage spell on the list (starts with a W). Also, don't forget about the other major benefit is that the beguiler fills the rogue spot in most parties. The negative, however, is that you need a moderate to high modifier in nearly every attribute (hard to pick stats). I won't go into all the things that I find horrid about sorcerers, and I won't try to talk people into not playing them (wizards are better!), but there are a few things to keep in mind. Evard's black tentacles (in my experience) isn't a good spell. Every time I find the need to cast the spell, it's against something really big that almost automatically makes the saving throw. I'd rather drop down into my third level spell list and take something like fly over tentacles.
Hariman 08-17-07, 03:37 PM	That's not exactly true. There's an enchantment damage spell on the list (starts with a W). Also, don't forget about the other major benefit is that the beguiler fills the rogue spot in most parties. The negative, however, is that you need a moderate to high modifier in nearly every attribute (hard to pick stats). I won't go into all the things that I find horrid about sorcerers, and I won't try to talk people into not playing them (wizards are better!), but there are a few things to keep in mind. Evard's black tentacles (in my experience) isn't a good spell. Every time I find the need to cast the spell, it's against something really big that almost automatically makes the saving throw. I'd rather drop down into my third level spell list and take something like fly over tentacles. Beguiler spells mainly do nonlethal damage. Which is actually very good in Greyhawk City. Whelm, Overwhelm, Whelming Burst, Inevitable Defeat, and Legion of Sentinels all do damage of some kind. Evard's is a situational spell. It's best aimed at a group of enemies that are either medium or small. But, yes, there are other spells that can do just as well, if not better. Heck, Blast of Flame is the same level but Blast of Flame is a 60 foot cone of no SR fire damage. Cooked undead, anyone?
Farkon 08-19-07, 07:26 PM	Beguiler sounds cool and all, but I've always been a sorcerer in baldur's gate and NWN. Ok hopefully this is the last time I'll have to post some stats spells, and feats. Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 16 (+3) Constitution 12 (+1) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 15 (+2) level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, acid splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, resistance, level 1:Magic missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Shield level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, scorching ray, Command Undead level 3: Haste, Fly, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Confusion level 5: Teleport, Wall of Force, hold monster, Mass Fly, Telekinesis level 6: Disintegrate, Symbol of Fear, Mislead, Acid Fog level 7: Symbol of Stunning, Limited Wish, Plane Shift, Prismatic Spray level 8: Horrid Wilting, Power Word Stun, Mass Charm Monster level 9: Time Stop, Wish, Shades feats: Extend spell Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell
Hariman 08-19-07, 11:43 PM	Beguiler sounds cool and all, but I've always been a sorcerer in baldur's gate and NWN. Ok hopefully this is the last time I'll have to post some stats spells, and feats. Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 16 (+3) Constitution 12 (+1) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 15 (+2) level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, acid splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, resistance, level 1:Magic missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Shield level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, scorching ray, Command Undead level 3: Haste, Fly, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Confusion level 5: Teleport, Wall of Force, hold monster, Mass Fly, Telekinesis level 6: Disintegrate, Symbol of Fear, Mislead, Acid Fog level 7: Symbol of Stunning, Limited Wish, Plane Shift, Prismatic Spray level 8: Horrid Wilting, Power Word Stun, Mass Charm Monster level 9: Time Stop, Wish, Shades feats: Extend spell Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell 1: You'll get more mileage out of Empower Spell than Maximize spell. +2 for empower is Better than +3 for maximize. Also, unless you deliberately seek spells with larger dice (D10s and D12s), you won't get as much out of Maximize as you think. Of course, having both gives you options, which brings me to: 2: Persistent spell is Closed in LG. It isn't a legal choice, so you need something to replace it. 3: Consider swapping in Eschew Materials and Silent Spell. For levels one and 3. Eschew materials lets you ignore material components, and silent spell covers casting in silence and underwater and helps your sneakyness while you are invisible.
Timlagor 08-23-07, 07:43 AM	Beguiler sounds cool and all, but I've always been a sorcerer in baldur's gate and NWN. Ok hopefully this is the last time I'll have to post some stats spells, and feats. Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 16 (+3) Constitution 12 (+1) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 15 (+2) You're going to suffer for not spending the extra 2 points on Con. You don't need the Wisdom or Intelligence that much. level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, acid splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, resistance, level 1:Magic missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Shield level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, scorching ray, Command Undead See Invisibility is essential (tells you where to lay the glitterdust). False Life should be on your list. Resist Energy is very good too. You don't have anything like the charisma needed to make Tasha's Hideous Lughter worth a slot. feats: Extend spell Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell Improved Intiative should be your first choice. Empower is much better than Maximise. Widen is a waste -take Chain or Twin
Nutation 08-24-07, 03:29 PM	You'll want to read the LGCS. One fundamental error: the campaign only goes up to L15, so level 7 spells. With the campaign ending next year, you will be hard-pressed to hit level 6 spells. level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, acid splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, resistance, level 1:Magic Missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Shield level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, scorching ray, Command Undead level 3: Haste, Fly, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Confusion level 5: Teleport, Wall of Force, hold monster, Mass Fly, Telekinesis level 6: Disintegrate, Symbol of Fear, Mislead, Acid Fog level 7: Symbol of Stunning, Limited Wish, Plane Shift, Prismatic Spray Don't forget that you can swap out spells. For example, I would swap out Mirror Image when Improved Invisibility becomes available and drop Fly in favor of Mass Fly. The save or (oops) spells are much better on a character with high starting charisma. Confusion is powerful enough to keep anyway (since it hits multiple targets), but Tasha's, Charm X, and Hold X are questionable. You're better off with single-target damage (Scorching Ray, Disintegrate) or debuffs (Enervation). Stoneskin is a bit costly, how often will you be casting it? D-Door and Teleport are redundant. feats: Extend spell Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell I would take Sculpt Spell and one other metamagic, probably Empower. If you own Complete Mage, look at Rapid Metamagic. Improved Initiative is certainly attractive, but I don't think it's at all mandatory. All of this is in addition to the excellent prior advice you've received.
JamesMaissen 08-26-07, 12:38 AM	Beguiler sounds cool and all, but I've always been a sorcerer in baldur's gate and NWN. Ok hopefully this is the last time I'll have to post some stats spells, and feats. Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 16 (+3) Constitution 12 (+1) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 15 (+2) Okay.. I would change these up.. as well as your starting race. Grey Elf gives you INT and DEX for CON and STR.. but you don't seem to want the INT (as you're only paying for a 12) and you're paying to regain the STR so what's it really giving you? Try Halfling for a race if you wish higher DEX and wish to work with ranged touch spells. So how's something like this: Race Human (for starts): STR 8 INT 8 WIS 8 DEX 14 CON 14 CHA 18 Now if you wish more for INT you can pay with it with CHA.. for example goin with a 14 INT and 16 CHA.. or a 9 STR, 10 INT, 17 CHA if you must choose the middle road. Likewise switch to Halfling if you want better ranged touch attacks. level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, acid splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, resistance, level 1:Magic missle, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Shield All fairly solid spells.. however Enlarge Person by that point is hard to afford the full round casting.. carry in hand a scroll (or wand of it) if you find the use for it and save yourself a spell known. Towards the order of your spells.. Magic Missile works well as a 3rd level choice over 1st. Until then use scrolls for it when you need the range. There are some other 1st level spells to consider.. depending upon access in some cases. One of the lesser orb spells is a reasonable choice for awhile as it can ignore SR. level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, scorching ray, Command Undead Web is a scroll spell. You don't really need to get them stuck.. just reduce their movement to a crawl. Mirror Image is a glass shield. It can work.. but it's a rough choice. Tasha's is fun.. but you need a high DC to make it worthwhile.. and even then it will have a limited shelf-life. Scorching ray is fine around 7th level.. if not closer to 11th. It's close range though, has SR and suffers from resistances greatly. See Invisibility is a very nice spell. And Command Undead atleast belongs as a scroll until you get it for real. level 3: Haste, Fly, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Mostly decent choices. Tough call when you want Dispel to become available to you however as 9th is a long way off. Probably something that you will drop out of later.. depending on metamagic feats. Fireball at 11th is hard to justify unless you are doing things with metamagic on it. Phantom steed is a nice choice at this point if you're sticking to PhB spells.. otherwise there are other options. Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, Confusion Probably want DDoor prior to Stoneskin, but YMMV. The 4th level spells are where it really starts hurting to be a sorcerer as you will have to make choices on what you can and can't do. Solid Fog is also a nice choice for a spell known.. though you can do just as well with a scroll (except 700gp is a bit pricy). There are also various Orb and other spells not in the PhB that compete here. level 5: Teleport, Wall of Force, hold monster, Mass Fly, Telekinesis You want Mass Fly much earlier. Bump up DDoor on the 4th level list and then you can wait on teleport. feats: Extend spell Maximize Spell Widen Spell Heighten Spell Persistent Spell Lots of different feats to look towards.. empower will work very well with your list. There are many other feats outside of the PhB for you to consider as well here. In general trying to do a sorcerer bit by bit is a loosing proposition. A wizard does this role much better while warmage and beguiler chip away at it on the other end. If you work with a theme and take a more holistic approach you might find yourself a lot better off. I'd suggest the LG char discussion yahoo group to you.. they might be able to do a much better job in ironing out what you want to achieve here. -James
UMiskatonic 08-27-07, 01:03 PM	Take a look at what you can do with meta-magic feats and your spell list. For example, if you take empower spell at 6th level like I did, then your 3rd/4th level spell list REALLY reads: 3rd level spells: Fireball, Fly, empowered ray of enfeeblement, empowered magic missile. 4th level spells: Dimension door, empowered scorching ray, empowered false life. ----------------------------------------------------------- Likewise, if you take chain spell, remember that you have options like chained dispel magic as potential spells. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure chain works on some of your other spells. FIND OUT WHICH ONES. For example, you won't need chained fly and mass fly. I'm not sure that's legal, I'm at work, but I think you get the idea.
copper_wyrmling 08-28-07, 07:20 AM	If you want to play a grey elf, I would play to your strengths (high Dex / Int) a bit more. If you want to play a sorcerer and the race doesn't matter to you, there are indeed races with more mechanical advantages for sorc than grey elf (human is probably best: the bonus feat is very nice indeed), but grey elf should still be perfectly playable. For a grey elf, I'd build the stats like this: Str 6 (0) Dex 16 (6) Con 12 (6) Int 16 (6) Wis 8 (0) Cha 16 (10) There's not much point in building for three stat-bumps now imo, since L12 is a long way away. You don't really need Wisdom unless you want it for flavor (not everyone wishes to play a crazy / self-absorbed / naive sorcerer), and while Con higher than 12 is nice, it's by no means essential. I've played a starting-Con-12 sorceress from L1 to L13 with no deaths, and watched several Con-12 grey elf wizards played successfully over a similar level range. If you go this route, use your high Int and Dex! Find a prestige class that appeals to you: the high Int gives you a bit more latitude than normal in meeting weird skill prereqs. (My human sorc started with Int 12. If I could rebuild her stats right now, I'd be tempted to take another two points from Con and put them into Int - I need more skill points! At L13, she doesn't have a single skill maxed, due to meeting PrC prereqs...) High Dex can make ranged touch spells more valuable: if you want to go this route, it can be useful to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as early feats and retrain them later. Re comments on Evard's Black Tentacles - I took it as my sorc's first L4 spell, and haven't regretted it, I've found it an extremely powerful spell. Even at APL 14, people sometimes fail to precast their Freedom of Movement, or don't have it available - Sculpted Evard's + Silence eliminated 3/4 of a combat in an APL 14 Core Special I played recently. Of course, you have to choose your targets: if you only ever tried to cast Feeblemind on enemy clerics, you'd probably think it was a lousy spell. There's better battlefield control for really big and strong creatures, although even then Evard's blocks charge lanes and slows movement. Sometimes people who mostly play wizards don't realize how much versatility spontaneous casting gives. If you're a wizard, and you prep EBT, and then everything you meet is big and tough, then you mostly wasted a slot (and possibly a combat action, if you decided to cast it anyway). If you're a sorc who has Empower Spell and Sculpt Spell by L8 and EBT as their first known L4 spell, then EBT is superb battlefield control for the combats where that's what you need, and against the big strong things you instead spend your actions and spell slots on empowered scorching rays, empowered rays of enfeeblement, sculpted glitterdust, sculpted grease, etc. I don't think my sorc cast EBT at all in her first game at L8 (which was Here There Be Dragons at APL 10), but she still got good use out of her spell slots with empowered scorching rays for all the cold-based enemies and empowered lesser orbs of sound + empowered rays of enfeeblement for the stuff that was fire-resistant. Her second game at L8 was in a city and ALL the encounters involved small or medium foes with class levels, and EBT made most of the fights completely trivial. I mostly agree with people's comments on spell selection. Mass Fly is a really nice spell - I don't think it's essential, and you can make up for its lack with other combos (using teleport for mass tactical withdrawals and fly + phantom steed for group mobility), but it's definitely a good choice. Since you have to play the character from first level, it's worth listing out the spells you gain level by level. Avoid duplication where you can: try to have as many options as possible. As UMiskatonic said, metamagic is key to that. Limited Wish is a fantastic spell - it provides a way of casting highly situation-specific spells that you would never take normally, because they're rarely useful, but when you need them you need them. At low levels you meet that need with scrolls, but for higher-level spells scrolls are both expensive and non-Open.