Dragon Diciple (9th level feat) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Diciple (9th level feat) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Morgen
10-20-06, 11:37 PM So here I find myself actually managing to not only survive as a Dragon Disciple but actually have a very fun character to play whose getting access hand over foot to armor and magic and so forth.

At the moment I'm 8th level. Paladin 4/Warmage 1/Dragon Disciple 3. Warmage was for better HP, true strike, and when Fist of Stone was a little better then it is now. Bonus spells are all going into Paladin. I’ve got a maxed Diplomacy for a +18 to the check.

My stats at the moment are 16/10/13/14/12/16 thanks to a certain mod giving me a +1 con.

I've got these feats:
• Power Attack
• Weapon Focus (Falchion)
• Extra Smiting
• Divine Vigor

I'm trying to figure out what the heck I'm going to get for my 9th level feat. I'm almost tempted to take Practice Caster (Paladin) but surely there must be something core and better then that? He doesn’t qualify for Improved Critical yet.

I need some advice on getting my AC up too as a two-handing fighter. Had access to mithril, bought a breastplate at the very last possible moment (didn't have the gold for heavy armor, ouch) and then got access again after I burn my glammered access. Glammered has been extremely useful and has saved me a number of times and made me a nice big target for everyone to aim at. My AC is of course terrible now though (17, yuck) but with the new mithril access I can get it up into the 20's again for another ridiculous amount of gold, but what can I do to push it up higher then that? Any suggestions?
DuctShuiTengu
10-21-06, 12:00 AM better AC...

Ring of Protection. You automatically have access to the +1 version, and can potentially get access to better.
Amulet of Natural Armor (though you're probably better off with an Amulet of Health), again, you have access to the +1 version annd can get access to better.
Enchant your armor. Once more, +1 access is automatic, anything beyond that you need access.
Go ahead and cough up the money for heavy armor. (and if you've only got 10 dex, why are you bothering with mithril anyway?)

Other options vary depending on what kind of access you have.
Iswald
10-21-06, 12:18 AM Improved buckler defense. Although, some judges may only allow it for TWF and not fighting two handed.
Morgen
10-25-06, 01:46 AM Improved Buckler Defense? I can afford an animated shield actually, thanks though.

Mithril is Mithril! Actually it's the whole, not being bogged down with hundreads of pounds of gear and not taking huge hits to skill checks. Plus there is a certain amount of pristege you have to take into consideration, especially in a game like Living Greyhawk. This is an Honoured Lord and a Paladin of Bahumat, he can't wonder around in just anything.

Pleanty of access to armor bonuses and the like, no worries there. Think I've even got Ghost Touch from a con I just went too, which makes up for it being a terrible con I suppose.

So no one else has any ideas for feats? I'll have to pour through the LGCS...though I did just get some frostburn feats as well, I'll have to look at them.
gomeztoo
10-25-06, 03:18 AM My dragon disciple is going for ioun stone (got access!), animated shield (got access, but not the gold yet), ring of protection +1, and possibly (glammered) gloves of Dex (instead of my dragoncrafted breastplate... in mithral chain shirt I can actually boost my Dex even higher with Cat's Grace).
There are a few AC feats (Dodge, Combat Expertise), but the gain is not much.
Another AC point is from Draconic Skin (I took it but it has another feat as a prereq).
My 9th lvl feat was Sacred Vitality, but that isn't Core access.
I would bot advise Improved Buckler Defence. Not everyone agrees that it works when fighting two-handed.

As ana aisde, I am thinking of taking Dragon Friend at 15th level, hoping I can somehow gain access to Platinum Knight...
Oogar
11-02-06, 09:32 AM Goad or Improved Toughness are the two that occur to me. (Mostly so people can argue against them, and maybe give you better suggestions) ;)
DuctShuiTengu
11-02-06, 10:54 AM Goad is... pathetic, quite frankly.

You spend a move action, to affect one target that threatens you, has line of sight to you, can hear you, and has at least 3 int. If, at the beginning of its turn, it still threatens and has line of sight to you, and it fails its Will save, then if it decides to make a melee attack (nothing in the feat forces this decision), then you are the only one who it can target until/unless it knocks you unconscious, or you cease to be a valid target (per the phrasing of the rules, it moving to where it no-longer threatens you fits this condition).

So, if you're up against an opponent who has no options other than making melee attacks, and if you need to make sure that it attacks you instead of anyone else it threatens, and if you can prevent it from moving to somewhere that it threatens other people but not you, and if this will do enough for your party that it's worth giving up any iterative attacks you may have... then it might be useful.

Also, I generally object to this taking a feat. How much special training do you need to shout "Your mother was an elf!" at the raging orc barbarian?
Oogar
11-02-06, 11:16 AM Goad is... pathetic, quite frankly.

Actually, I agree, but I was hoping to create a situation where someone might provide a better alternative, rather then simply trashing the feat :P

Ah well.
jstorrie
11-02-06, 01:34 PM Take Warmage 4 as your 9th level and pick up Arcane Strike. Warmages have plenty of spellslots to burn and Arcane Strike won't keep you from switching up to fullplate for higher AC.

edit: whoops. I completely misread your build. Well, Sacred Healing is nice for when you find yourself at a table with no Cleric and a low supply of wands.
UMiskatonic
11-02-06, 04:08 PM Don't take goad.

If you had taken sorceror, you'd have things like the shield spell available, and all kinds of good defenses on your spell list, like blur. Oh well.

Without that, I'd suggest potions as a start. Barkskin is pretty cheap, as is shield of faith. Let every caster you ever adventure with know that your armor class is horrible, and needs the help of blur, displacement, shield of faith, protection from evil, barkskin, blur, displacement, improved invisibility and stoneskin.

Right now, your armor class is APL +10. That's horrible. Since you'll get hit all of the time, might as well power attack a lot, and return the favor. Use divine vigor and get an amulet of health, so at least you'll have hp.

I'd seriously look at improved toughness. If you're going to consider yourself a frontliner, you'll need more than a 13 Con.

Or, go with True Believer (Bahamut) and qualify yourself for Pious Templar. It's a great class, and would get you even more paladin spells.

Buy full plate. After all, Bahamut has good AC, shouldn't his followers? You don't have evasion, you can't tumble, you don't have a dex bonus to lose. In medieval societies, the wealthiest knights wore the most armor; I'd expect a Greyhawk lord to have magical full plate.
Morgen
11-07-06, 03:02 AM I'm thinking Improved Toughness might be the winner in this. Though I do oddly find myself healing a bit, and not myself either.

Sorcerer wasn't as nice of an option with Fist of Stone gave me a +6 strength bonus for everything short of carrying capacity. After all, I only got to pick 2 spells for the life of the character. I suppose random wands might have appeared and made that the better option, but I've also killed elementals thanks to the combination of the Lesser Orb spells and Divine Sacrifice. (1d8+5d6+2, yay I'm a rogue!) I'm quite aware that will falter in usefulness at higher levels of course.

Yes, yes, I don't have an AC of like 70+, and at the moment I am planning on getting some full plate, that isn't an issue. I was more curious exactly what to do after the +9 AC bonus from +1 full plate. Rings of Protection, Gloves of Dex, etc are reasonably obvious. Just wondering if there was some weird feat that went something along the lines of, "Spend a turning attempt and gain your charisma to your AC for your character level in minutes."

The Con score... I do pick up +2 con at 11th level thanks to dragon disciple, and at 12th level my con gets another +1 to end up at 16. Not too shabby for 4 points at character creation and one really lucky roll in a mod, eh?
Iswald
11-07-06, 12:44 PM Yes, yes, I don't have an AC of like 70+, and at the moment I am planning on getting some full plate, that isn't an issue. I was more curious exactly what to do after the +9 AC bonus from +1 full plate. Rings of Protection, Gloves of Dex, etc are reasonably obvious. Just wondering if there was some weird feat that went something along the lines of, "Spend a turning attempt and gain your charisma to your AC for your character level in minutes."

You mean something like Divine Shield (CW)? Cha bonus as a bonus to your shield's AC for 1 round per 2 character levels. You'd probably want to pick up the animated shield you mentioned first. It's the not the most useful of feats since it does take a standard action to activate.
Morgen
11-07-06, 06:12 PM Yeah, I saw that one. No shield to speak of yet, but by 9th who knows?
Morgen
11-13-06, 03:42 PM Alright then, Font of Life it is. Rawr.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morgen 10-20-06, 11:37 PM	So here I find myself actually managing to not only survive as a Dragon Disciple but actually have a very fun character to play whose getting access hand over foot to armor and magic and so forth. At the moment I'm 8th level. Paladin 4/Warmage 1/Dragon Disciple 3. Warmage was for better HP, true strike, and when Fist of Stone was a little better then it is now. Bonus spells are all going into Paladin. I’ve got a maxed Diplomacy for a +18 to the check. My stats at the moment are 16/10/13/14/12/16 thanks to a certain mod giving me a +1 con. I've got these feats: • Power Attack • Weapon Focus (Falchion) • Extra Smiting • Divine Vigor I'm trying to figure out what the heck I'm going to get for my 9th level feat. I'm almost tempted to take Practice Caster (Paladin) but surely there must be something core and better then that? He doesn’t qualify for Improved Critical yet. I need some advice on getting my AC up too as a two-handing fighter. Had access to mithril, bought a breastplate at the very last possible moment (didn't have the gold for heavy armor, ouch) and then got access again after I burn my glammered access. Glammered has been extremely useful and has saved me a number of times and made me a nice big target for everyone to aim at. My AC is of course terrible now though (17, yuck) but with the new mithril access I can get it up into the 20's again for another ridiculous amount of gold, but what can I do to push it up higher then that? Any suggestions?
DuctShuiTengu 10-21-06, 12:00 AM	better AC... Ring of Protection. You automatically have access to the +1 version, and can potentially get access to better. Amulet of Natural Armor (though you're probably better off with an Amulet of Health), again, you have access to the +1 version annd can get access to better. Enchant your armor. Once more, +1 access is automatic, anything beyond that you need access. Go ahead and cough up the money for heavy armor. (and if you've only got 10 dex, why are you bothering with mithril anyway?) Other options vary depending on what kind of access you have.
Iswald 10-21-06, 12:18 AM	Improved buckler defense. Although, some judges may only allow it for TWF and not fighting two handed.
Morgen 10-25-06, 01:46 AM	Improved Buckler Defense? I can afford an animated shield actually, thanks though. Mithril is Mithril! Actually it's the whole, not being bogged down with hundreads of pounds of gear and not taking huge hits to skill checks. Plus there is a certain amount of pristege you have to take into consideration, especially in a game like Living Greyhawk. This is an Honoured Lord and a Paladin of Bahumat, he can't wonder around in just anything. Pleanty of access to armor bonuses and the like, no worries there. Think I've even got Ghost Touch from a con I just went too, which makes up for it being a terrible con I suppose. So no one else has any ideas for feats? I'll have to pour through the LGCS...though I did just get some frostburn feats as well, I'll have to look at them.
gomeztoo 10-25-06, 03:18 AM	My dragon disciple is going for ioun stone (got access!), animated shield (got access, but not the gold yet), ring of protection +1, and possibly (glammered) gloves of Dex (instead of my dragoncrafted breastplate... in mithral chain shirt I can actually boost my Dex even higher with Cat's Grace). There are a few AC feats (Dodge, Combat Expertise), but the gain is not much. Another AC point is from Draconic Skin (I took it but it has another feat as a prereq). My 9th lvl feat was Sacred Vitality, but that isn't Core access. I would bot advise Improved Buckler Defence. Not everyone agrees that it works when fighting two-handed. As ana aisde, I am thinking of taking Dragon Friend at 15th level, hoping I can somehow gain access to Platinum Knight...
Oogar 11-02-06, 09:32 AM	Goad or Improved Toughness are the two that occur to me. (Mostly so people can argue against them, and maybe give you better suggestions) ;)
DuctShuiTengu 11-02-06, 10:54 AM	Goad is... pathetic, quite frankly. You spend a move action, to affect one target that threatens you, has line of sight to you, can hear you, and has at least 3 int. If, at the beginning of its turn, it still threatens and has line of sight to you, and it fails its Will save, then if it decides to make a melee attack (nothing in the feat forces this decision), then you are the only one who it can target until/unless it knocks you unconscious, or you cease to be a valid target (per the phrasing of the rules, it moving to where it no-longer threatens you fits this condition). So, if you're up against an opponent who has no options other than making melee attacks, and if you need to make sure that it attacks you instead of anyone else it threatens, and if you can prevent it from moving to somewhere that it threatens other people but not you, and if this will do enough for your party that it's worth giving up any iterative attacks you may have... then it might be useful. Also, I generally object to this taking a feat. How much special training do you need to shout "Your mother was an elf!" at the raging orc barbarian?
Oogar 11-02-06, 11:16 AM	Goad is... pathetic, quite frankly. Actually, I agree, but I was hoping to create a situation where someone might provide a better alternative, rather then simply trashing the feat :P Ah well.
jstorrie 11-02-06, 01:34 PM	Take Warmage 4 as your 9th level and pick up Arcane Strike. Warmages have plenty of spellslots to burn and Arcane Strike won't keep you from switching up to fullplate for higher AC. edit: whoops. I completely misread your build. Well, Sacred Healing is nice for when you find yourself at a table with no Cleric and a low supply of wands.
UMiskatonic 11-02-06, 04:08 PM	Don't take goad. If you had taken sorceror, you'd have things like the shield spell available, and all kinds of good defenses on your spell list, like blur. Oh well. Without that, I'd suggest potions as a start. Barkskin is pretty cheap, as is shield of faith. Let every caster you ever adventure with know that your armor class is horrible, and needs the help of blur, displacement, shield of faith, protection from evil, barkskin, blur, displacement, improved invisibility and stoneskin. Right now, your armor class is APL +10. That's horrible. Since you'll get hit all of the time, might as well power attack a lot, and return the favor. Use divine vigor and get an amulet of health, so at least you'll have hp. I'd seriously look at improved toughness. If you're going to consider yourself a frontliner, you'll need more than a 13 Con. Or, go with True Believer (Bahamut) and qualify yourself for Pious Templar. It's a great class, and would get you even more paladin spells. Buy full plate. After all, Bahamut has good AC, shouldn't his followers? You don't have evasion, you can't tumble, you don't have a dex bonus to lose. In medieval societies, the wealthiest knights wore the most armor; I'd expect a Greyhawk lord to have magical full plate.
Morgen 11-07-06, 03:02 AM	I'm thinking Improved Toughness might be the winner in this. Though I do oddly find myself healing a bit, and not myself either. Sorcerer wasn't as nice of an option with Fist of Stone gave me a +6 strength bonus for everything short of carrying capacity. After all, I only got to pick 2 spells for the life of the character. I suppose random wands might have appeared and made that the better option, but I've also killed elementals thanks to the combination of the Lesser Orb spells and Divine Sacrifice. (1d8+5d6+2, yay I'm a rogue!) I'm quite aware that will falter in usefulness at higher levels of course. Yes, yes, I don't have an AC of like 70+, and at the moment I am planning on getting some full plate, that isn't an issue. I was more curious exactly what to do after the +9 AC bonus from +1 full plate. Rings of Protection, Gloves of Dex, etc are reasonably obvious. Just wondering if there was some weird feat that went something along the lines of, "Spend a turning attempt and gain your charisma to your AC for your character level in minutes." The Con score... I do pick up +2 con at 11th level thanks to dragon disciple, and at 12th level my con gets another +1 to end up at 16. Not too shabby for 4 points at character creation and one really lucky roll in a mod, eh?
Iswald 11-07-06, 12:44 PM	Yes, yes, I don't have an AC of like 70+, and at the moment I am planning on getting some full plate, that isn't an issue. I was more curious exactly what to do after the +9 AC bonus from +1 full plate. Rings of Protection, Gloves of Dex, etc are reasonably obvious. Just wondering if there was some weird feat that went something along the lines of, "Spend a turning attempt and gain your charisma to your AC for your character level in minutes." You mean something like Divine Shield (CW)? Cha bonus as a bonus to your shield's AC for 1 round per 2 character levels. You'd probably want to pick up the animated shield you mentioned first. It's the not the most useful of feats since it does take a standard action to activate.
Morgen 11-07-06, 06:12 PM	Yeah, I saw that one. No shield to speak of yet, but by 9th who knows?
Morgen 11-13-06, 03:42 PM	Alright then, Font of Life it is. Rawr.