Dragon Disciple and Natural Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Disciple and Natural Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lavyan
09-23-07, 09:33 PM Hi everyone,

My son has a DD build and I just wanted to see if I understand how using natural and manufactured weapons work. Pg 299 of the Monster Manual makes it seem like the natural attack of the DD does not effect the 'regular' attacks? Here is what he has:

Fighter/Barb/Sor Mutt
Level 7 (6 right now)
BA +5
Str 19 (+4)

Full Attack:
+1 GreatAxe +11 d12+7
Bite +4 d6+2
2 Claws +4/+4 d4+2/d4+2

When he goes to 8th level and gets his 2nd greataxe attack:
+1 GreatAxe +11/+6 d12+7/d12+7
Bite +4 d6+2
2 Claws +4/+4 d4+2/d4+2

So, do I have this right?

Also, he is undecided on his 6th level feat? Right now he has:
Combat Casting (possible retrain?)
Weapon Focus
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved Toughness

Thanks,
Robert
jstorrie
09-24-07, 01:04 AM You can't make claw attacks if you have a weapon in your hands.

You could combine them with attacks from armor spikes though, conceivably.
UMiskatonic
09-24-07, 10:27 AM Multiattack might be a worthwhile feat. Also, Imp. Grapple.

Why grapple? Because you can use natural attacks in a grapple. If you make the grapple check, you'll be full attacking, and they won't.

And retrain combat casting to skill focus (concentration). It's only +3, not +4, but skill focus works when you are on a moving horse, targeted by certain spells, taking damage, etc. Combat casting is good much less often, and is inferior, in my humble opinion.
JamesMaissen
09-24-07, 12:33 PM Why grapple? Because you can use natural attacks in a grapple. If you make the grapple check, you'll be full attacking, and they won't.

While Improved Grapple (and grappling in general) is a good option for Dragon Disciples to consider, you are limited to attacking with ONE natural weapon while you are grappling if you decide to attack in that manor. You can make multiple BAB based grapple checks, but so can anyone.

-James
TWG_Prometheus
09-24-07, 05:18 PM Edited:
Full Attack:
+1 GreatAxe +11 d12+7
Bite +4 d6+2

When he goes to 8th level and gets his 2nd greataxe attack:
+1 GreatAxe +11/+6 d12+7/d12+7
Bite +4 d6+2

Edited to correct the attack sequences for clarity. As others stated above, you can't make Claw attacks with any hand that is weilding a weapon or bearing a non-buckler shield.

Feats:
Retrain Combat Casting - YES - Depending on the spells you selected for his Sorcerer level, Practised Spellcaster(Sorcerer) might make the cut, but I doubt it. Ideally, he has swift action spells that won't involve arcane spell failure or possibly True Strike.

The rest of the feats are solid...nothing to complain about. I wouldn't invest in Multiattack since you'll only improve your Bite with it. Using tactical actions such as grappling or gripping with that Bite may pay off better after proper feat investment. Consider Close-Quarters Combat since nothing stinks more than getting grappled by something eight times your size. Extra Rage is always good for a Barbarian as well.

If we're only looking at Core manuals for feats, Improved Initiative will be far better than Combat Casting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lavyan 09-23-07, 09:33 PM	Hi everyone, My son has a DD build and I just wanted to see if I understand how using natural and manufactured weapons work. Pg 299 of the Monster Manual makes it seem like the natural attack of the DD does not effect the 'regular' attacks? Here is what he has: Fighter/Barb/Sor Mutt Level 7 (6 right now) BA +5 Str 19 (+4) Full Attack: +1 GreatAxe +11 d12+7 Bite +4 d6+2 2 Claws +4/+4 d4+2/d4+2 When he goes to 8th level and gets his 2nd greataxe attack: +1 GreatAxe +11/+6 d12+7/d12+7 Bite +4 d6+2 2 Claws +4/+4 d4+2/d4+2 So, do I have this right? Also, he is undecided on his 6th level feat? Right now he has: Combat Casting (possible retrain?) Weapon Focus Power Attack Cleave Improved Toughness Thanks, Robert
jstorrie 09-24-07, 01:04 AM	You can't make claw attacks if you have a weapon in your hands. You could combine them with attacks from armor spikes though, conceivably.
UMiskatonic 09-24-07, 10:27 AM	Multiattack might be a worthwhile feat. Also, Imp. Grapple. Why grapple? Because you can use natural attacks in a grapple. If you make the grapple check, you'll be full attacking, and they won't. And retrain combat casting to skill focus (concentration). It's only +3, not +4, but skill focus works when you are on a moving horse, targeted by certain spells, taking damage, etc. Combat casting is good much less often, and is inferior, in my humble opinion.
JamesMaissen 09-24-07, 12:33 PM	Why grapple? Because you can use natural attacks in a grapple. If you make the grapple check, you'll be full attacking, and they won't. While Improved Grapple (and grappling in general) is a good option for Dragon Disciples to consider, you are limited to attacking with ONE natural weapon while you are grappling if you decide to attack in that manor. You can make multiple BAB based grapple checks, but so can anyone. -James
TWG_Prometheus 09-24-07, 05:18 PM	Edited: Full Attack: +1 GreatAxe +11 d12+7 Bite +4 d6+2 When he goes to 8th level and gets his 2nd greataxe attack: +1 GreatAxe +11/+6 d12+7/d12+7 Bite +4 d6+2 Edited to correct the attack sequences for clarity. As others stated above, you can't make Claw attacks with any hand that is weilding a weapon or bearing a non-buckler shield. Feats: Retrain Combat Casting - YES - Depending on the spells you selected for his Sorcerer level, Practised Spellcaster(Sorcerer) might make the cut, but I doubt it. Ideally, he has swift action spells that won't involve arcane spell failure or possibly True Strike. The rest of the feats are solid...nothing to complain about. I wouldn't invest in Multiattack since you'll only improve your Bite with it. Using tactical actions such as grappling or gripping with that Bite may pay off better after proper feat investment. Consider Close-Quarters Combat since nothing stinks more than getting grappled by something eight times your size. Extra Rage is always good for a Barbarian as well. If we're only looking at Core manuals for feats, Improved Initiative will be far better than Combat Casting.