Duelist Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Duelist Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LachlarlanIII
01-09-07, 12:17 PM Grey Elf Swashbuckler 4/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon 2/Duelist 7
Str 6, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 8

1: Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise
2: Swashbuckler 2:
3: Swashbuckler 3: EWP (Elven Courtblade)
4: Swashbuckler 4: Dex 18
5: Fighter 1: Dodge
6: Fighter 2: Mobility, Mounted Combat
7: Duelist 1:
8: Champion of Corellon 1: Dex 19
9: Champion of Corellon 2: Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade), Spring Attack
10: Duelist 2:
11: Duelist 3:
12: Duelist 4: Improved Initiative, Dex 20
13: Duelist 5:
14: Duelist 6:
15: Duelist 7: Improved Toughness

Before you ask, yes, that is a 6 Str. In the early levels he will mostly be useful as an assistant. He will become much more beneficial as a damage dealer when he picks up Insightful Strike from Swashbuckler and later Elegant Strike from Champion of Corellon. And much later still his Str can be raised via items.

some pretty interesting extras going on:
Decent, if not spectacular Tripper/Disarmer. He'll eventually
effectively have a 36 Strength for purposes of doing Trips or
Disarms.

His main asset is his AC, most of which comes from Dex, Int and Dodge bonuses.

His biggest drawbacks are his fairly low saves even counting a +5 Cloak or Vest, and his hit points aren't stellar as well.

Enemies to Avoid: Anything immune to critical hits.

Not a very effective character, but the best Duelist build I could come up with.
Alpha_Nerd
01-09-07, 12:20 PM Needs more Elusive Target less Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade). Unless it's required for Duelist.

Also I'm pretty sure you're doing duelist for the flavor, but dervish could be a viable substitute if Duelist doesn't make the cut.
LachlarlanIII
01-09-07, 12:31 PM Needs more Elusive Target less Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade). Unless it's required for Duelist.

Also I'm pretty sure you're doing duelist for the flavor, but dervish could be a viable substitute if Duelist doesn't make the cut.

No, WF(Courtblade) it isnt required, I'll take that suggestion into consideration.

Yes and no to the second part. Yes, I've always liked the Duelist as a class. Unfortunately, there's no real way (as I see it) to make one truly effective.
Alpha_Nerd
01-09-07, 01:09 PM If you're fine with being a gnome Blade Bravo has a lot of the same flavor as a duelist and I've seen builds that go nuts stacking up all the fighting-people-bigger-than-you bonuses then somehow getting reduce person cast on you. You should check it out, it involves a couple levels of gnome giant-slayer and blade bravo iirc.
CrystalBlue
01-09-07, 01:09 PM I would also suggest you to take Improved Weapon Familiarity instead of EWP. This way, you'll have access to three different kinds of weapons, rather then relying on just a courtblade. Could be useful if that thing ever gets disarmed, sundered, or something. And you won't have to reach into a haversack to pull another out, cause the thin and light blades can be sheathed at your hip. ^.^
LachlarlanIII
01-09-07, 03:14 PM Champion of Corellon specifically requires either Weapon Focus (Longsword) or EWP (Courtblade or Thinblade).
Nutation
01-09-07, 07:39 PM Before you ask, yes, that is a 6 Str. In the early levels he will mostly be useful as an assistant.

More Str/less Int would give you better damage throughout your career. Plus, you could wear real armor and you wouldn't be shadow-bait.

How greatly does Str 10 Int 16 damage the concept?
_m_
01-09-07, 07:41 PM More Str/less Int would give you better damage throughout your career. Plus, you could wear real armor and you wouldn't be shadow-bait.

How greatly does Str 10 Int 16 damage the concept?

well from the swashbuckler lvls int directly goes to damage... depends where it wants to go, but i would recomend more str as well.

and theres nothing wrong wish shadowbaits... they're called wizards :D
LachlarlanIII
01-09-07, 10:23 PM 10 Str, 16 Int is actually a net +1 damage gain.
Lomiat
01-10-07, 12:50 AM Champion of Corellon specifically requires either Weapon Focus (Longsword) or EWP (Courtblade or Thinblade).

Weapon Focus (longsword) applies to the Thinblade (per the Thinblade's description). Therefore, Improved Weapon Familiarity beats EWP (thinblade).

Three 14s and a 16 are a better buy, typically, than the odds, especially when you get the DEX and INT damage stacking.

At any rate... It's interesting to think of using a Champion of Corellon/Duelist build. But I think I'd look to take some Arcane levels for a Duelist--enough at any rate to pick up Mage Armor and Shield. True, you could expect others to cast them for you all the time, but when you can just cast them yourself, that's good, too.

Especially, if the Abjurant Broken Champion makes it into the campaign...
Haro
01-13-07, 03:36 AM Especially, if the Abjurant Broken Champion makes it into the campaign...

I believe this misconception is making me go grey, reminding people that Mage Armor is not an Abjuration spell. It is a Conjuration spell and therefore does not qualify for the Abjurant Champion's ability.

I hope this post will spread the word like wildfire to the people, so that one day, the time will come when all gamers can share the bounty this knowledge will bring. Of course, that will be the day 4th edition will be released. :D

Joe
Lomiat
01-13-07, 09:12 AM I didn't state (in this thread) that the Abjurant Champion would enhance anyone's Mage Armor. I made that mistake once and was corrected.

Rather, the Abjurant Champion would be good for the build because it has a ridiculously low entry requirement and gets full BAB, a d10 hit die, full spellcasting progression, some good special abilities, and an enhancement to Shield.

The Duelist, meanwhile, gains its INT bonus to AC while not wearing armor or using a shield (bonus equal to Duelist class level or INT, whichever is lower). As neither Mage Armor (or Greater Mage Armor) or Shield are the actual items, the Duelist gains its INT bonus to AC even while using the spells.

A grey elf Duelist could post a significant AC without wearing any armor or shield.
Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 8
bumps to DEX
gloves of DEX +4
headband of INT +4
Str 12 Dex 23 Con 12 Int 20 Wis 8 Cha 8

Swashbuckler4/Wiz2/Abjurant Champion5/Duelist5
AC with Greater Mage Armor, Shield, Alter Self (troglodyte), Ring of Protection +2 = 44

This isn't above what other classes can do, but this type of AC requires dedication from any build. Toss in Combat Expertise, and think about your Dodge buddy, Haste, etc., and it's certainly pretty good. The Abjurant Champion also lets you ditch a spell to add its bonus to your AC for a round, potentially (with the options just mentioned) getting you this Duelist up to 55 AC for a round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LachlarlanIII 01-09-07, 12:17 PM	Grey Elf Swashbuckler 4/Fighter 2/Champion of Corellon 2/Duelist 7 Str 6, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise 2: Swashbuckler 2: 3: Swashbuckler 3: EWP (Elven Courtblade) 4: Swashbuckler 4: Dex 18 5: Fighter 1: Dodge 6: Fighter 2: Mobility, Mounted Combat 7: Duelist 1: 8: Champion of Corellon 1: Dex 19 9: Champion of Corellon 2: Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade), Spring Attack 10: Duelist 2: 11: Duelist 3: 12: Duelist 4: Improved Initiative, Dex 20 13: Duelist 5: 14: Duelist 6: 15: Duelist 7: Improved Toughness Before you ask, yes, that is a 6 Str. In the early levels he will mostly be useful as an assistant. He will become much more beneficial as a damage dealer when he picks up Insightful Strike from Swashbuckler and later Elegant Strike from Champion of Corellon. And much later still his Str can be raised via items. some pretty interesting extras going on: Decent, if not spectacular Tripper/Disarmer. He'll eventually effectively have a 36 Strength for purposes of doing Trips or Disarms. His main asset is his AC, most of which comes from Dex, Int and Dodge bonuses. His biggest drawbacks are his fairly low saves even counting a +5 Cloak or Vest, and his hit points aren't stellar as well. Enemies to Avoid: Anything immune to critical hits. Not a very effective character, but the best Duelist build I could come up with.
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 12:20 PM	Needs more Elusive Target less Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade). Unless it's required for Duelist. Also I'm pretty sure you're doing duelist for the flavor, but dervish could be a viable substitute if Duelist doesn't make the cut.
LachlarlanIII 01-09-07, 12:31 PM	Needs more Elusive Target less Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade). Unless it's required for Duelist. Also I'm pretty sure you're doing duelist for the flavor, but dervish could be a viable substitute if Duelist doesn't make the cut. No, WF(Courtblade) it isnt required, I'll take that suggestion into consideration. Yes and no to the second part. Yes, I've always liked the Duelist as a class. Unfortunately, there's no real way (as I see it) to make one truly effective.
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 01:09 PM	If you're fine with being a gnome Blade Bravo has a lot of the same flavor as a duelist and I've seen builds that go nuts stacking up all the fighting-people-bigger-than-you bonuses then somehow getting reduce person cast on you. You should check it out, it involves a couple levels of gnome giant-slayer and blade bravo iirc.
CrystalBlue 01-09-07, 01:09 PM	I would also suggest you to take Improved Weapon Familiarity instead of EWP. This way, you'll have access to three different kinds of weapons, rather then relying on just a courtblade. Could be useful if that thing ever gets disarmed, sundered, or something. And you won't have to reach into a haversack to pull another out, cause the thin and light blades can be sheathed at your hip. ^.^
LachlarlanIII 01-09-07, 03:14 PM	Champion of Corellon specifically requires either Weapon Focus (Longsword) or EWP (Courtblade or Thinblade).
Nutation 01-09-07, 07:39 PM	Before you ask, yes, that is a 6 Str. In the early levels he will mostly be useful as an assistant. More Str/less Int would give you better damage throughout your career. Plus, you could wear real armor and you wouldn't be shadow-bait. How greatly does Str 10 Int 16 damage the concept?
_m_ 01-09-07, 07:41 PM	More Str/less Int would give you better damage throughout your career. Plus, you could wear real armor and you wouldn't be shadow-bait. How greatly does Str 10 Int 16 damage the concept? well from the swashbuckler lvls int directly goes to damage... depends where it wants to go, but i would recomend more str as well. and theres nothing wrong wish shadowbaits... they're called wizards :D
LachlarlanIII 01-09-07, 10:23 PM	10 Str, 16 Int is actually a net +1 damage gain.
Lomiat 01-10-07, 12:50 AM	Champion of Corellon specifically requires either Weapon Focus (Longsword) or EWP (Courtblade or Thinblade). Weapon Focus (longsword) applies to the Thinblade (per the Thinblade's description). Therefore, Improved Weapon Familiarity beats EWP (thinblade). Three 14s and a 16 are a better buy, typically, than the odds, especially when you get the DEX and INT damage stacking. At any rate... It's interesting to think of using a Champion of Corellon/Duelist build. But I think I'd look to take some Arcane levels for a Duelist--enough at any rate to pick up Mage Armor and Shield. True, you could expect others to cast them for you all the time, but when you can just cast them yourself, that's good, too. Especially, if the Abjurant Broken Champion makes it into the campaign...
Haro 01-13-07, 03:36 AM	Especially, if the Abjurant Broken Champion makes it into the campaign... I believe this misconception is making me go grey, reminding people that Mage Armor is not an Abjuration spell. It is a Conjuration spell and therefore does not qualify for the Abjurant Champion's ability. I hope this post will spread the word like wildfire to the people, so that one day, the time will come when all gamers can share the bounty this knowledge will bring. Of course, that will be the day 4th edition will be released. :D Joe
Lomiat 01-13-07, 09:12 AM	I didn't state (in this thread) that the Abjurant Champion would enhance anyone's Mage Armor. I made that mistake once and was corrected. Rather, the Abjurant Champion would be good for the build because it has a ridiculously low entry requirement and gets full BAB, a d10 hit die, full spellcasting progression, some good special abilities, and an enhancement to Shield. The Duelist, meanwhile, gains its INT bonus to AC while not wearing armor or using a shield (bonus equal to Duelist class level or INT, whichever is lower). As neither Mage Armor (or Greater Mage Armor) or Shield are the actual items, the Duelist gains its INT bonus to AC even while using the spells. A grey elf Duelist could post a significant AC without wearing any armor or shield. Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 8 bumps to DEX gloves of DEX +4 headband of INT +4 Str 12 Dex 23 Con 12 Int 20 Wis 8 Cha 8 Swashbuckler4/Wiz2/Abjurant Champion5/Duelist5 AC with Greater Mage Armor, Shield, Alter Self (troglodyte), Ring of Protection +2 = 44 This isn't above what other classes can do, but this type of AC requires dedication from any build. Toss in Combat Expertise, and think about your Dodge buddy, Haste, etc., and it's certainly pretty good. The Abjurant Champion also lets you ditch a spell to add its bonus to your AC for a round, potentially (with the options just mentioned) getting you this Duelist up to 55 AC for a round.