Dungeon Crasher build... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dungeon Crasher build... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jay_Ibero_911
08-03-07, 07:20 PM Race:Human
Alignment:

STR-17 (13)
DEX-14 (6)
CON-14 (6)
INT-8 (0)
WIS-11 (3)
CHA-8 (0)

Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush
Lv3(Fighter)Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dire Pick) , Dungeon Crasher
Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR
Lv5(Fighter)Weapon Focus(Piercing)
Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper
Lv7(Fighter)Dungeon Crasher 2
Lv8(Exotic Weapon Master)Uncanny Blow, +1 STR
Lv9(Fighter)Weapon Specialization
Lv10(Fighter)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv11(Fighter)
Lv12(Fighter)Reckless Rage, Improved Sunder, +1 STR
Lv13(Fighter)
Lv14(Fighter)Driving Attack
Lv15(Barbarian)Combat Brute

The ultimate goal of this build is to combine the dungeon crasher bull rush ability with the driving attack feat allowing you to make a single attack as a full round action that grants a free bull rush with your full damage bonus added on, then ideally slamming them into a wall for more damage and if you beat their check by enough, knock them prone too. Really cool combo, if very situational. Heedless Charge into the bad guy first round, then use driving attack next. It should hurt.

[edit] Changed the build because with dragon disciple I wouldn't qualify for Driving Attack until 15th level.
ShinAkuma2
08-03-07, 09:44 PM ...That's ridiculous.

I am playing a Dungeon Crasher fighter for Greyhawk, too, but Dungeon Crasher was added as an afterthought, rather than built around. For the first 7 levels, the build is practically identical (different stat spread, though). Mine's a Divine Crusader after that...I figured all those buffs + Righteous Might's size bonus would work pretty well with smushing people into walls.
RedKnightofKet
08-03-07, 10:53 PM I have a similar build, except mine will go Pious Templar of Hurakon. He's taking on the concept of the Robot Chicken sketch of Ted Turner acting as "Captain Planet" - should be good times. :D
ShinAkuma2
08-04-07, 04:45 AM "You got glass in my eye!!"

"And my foot in your :censored: !" (no need to get myself modded)

Classic.
Orc_Courtesy
08-05-07, 01:46 AM Following RedKnightofKet's suggestion, I've been trying to work out a Pious Templar version of Jay_Ibero_911's build, but the problem I'm finding is that with the barbarian level in the mix the Driving Attack doesn't show up until the character is stepping offstage at level 15.

Race:Human
Alignment:Neutral Good

STR-17 (13)
DEX-12 (4)
CON-14 (6)
INT-8 (0)
WIS-13 (5)
CHA-8 (0)

Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter 1)*Improved Bull Rush
Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, *Dungeon Crasher
Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR
Lv5(Fighter 4)*Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper
Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2)
Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,*Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick)
Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv10(Fighter 6)*Dungeon Crasher II
Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)*Improved Critical (Heavy Pick)
Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR
Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6)
Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut 7)
Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), *Driving Attack

Feats with * are bonus feats from fighter or pious templar, or alternative class features that replace bonus feats.
Things work out more elegantly with a straight progression from fighter to pious templar:

Lv1(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter)*Dungeon Crasher
Lv3(Fighter)True Believer
Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR, *Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Lv5(Fighter)
Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper, *Dungeon Crasher II
Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut)+1 WIS
Lv9(Pious Templar of Bahamut),*Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick), Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv10(Pious Templar of Bahamut)*Improved Critical (Heavy Pick)
Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), +1 STR
Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut)*Driving Attack
Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Feat, *Feat

I'd appreciate suggestions for other bull rush-related feats to replace the critical ones I have in the build now, and would be delighted if anyone finds a way to get barbarian back into the mix (and less delighted, but still grateful, if you find ways either build is broken).
ShinAkuma2
08-05-07, 07:00 AM I don't think you have room for it, but if you can fit it (or even save it for post-retirement :P ), Combat Brute has a good tactic for bull-rushing, which could give all your attacks in the next round a hefty boost to damage.

edit: O hey, you do have room for it if you replace Power Critical with Improved Sunder. I'm not sure if you want to do that, though.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-05-07, 10:25 AM Following RedKnightofKet's suggestion, I've been trying to work out a Pious Templar version of Jay_Ibero_911's build, but the problem I'm finding is that with the barbarian level in the mix the Driving Attack doesn't show up until the character is stepping offstage at level 15.

Race:Human
Alignment:Neutral Good

STR-17 (13)
DEX-12 (4)
CON-14 (6)
INT-8 (0)
WIS-13 (5)
CHA-8 (0)

Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter 1)*Improved Bull Rush
Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, *Dungeon Crasher
Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR
Lv5(Fighter 4)*Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper
Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2)
Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,*Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick)
Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv10(Fighter 6)*Dungeon Crasher II
Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)*Improved Critical (Heavy Pick)
Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR
Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6)
Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut 7)
Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), *Driving Attack

Feats with * are bonus feats from fighter or pious templar, or alternative class features that replace bonus feats.
Things work out more elegantly with a straight progression from fighter to pious templar:

Lv1(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter)*Dungeon Crasher
Lv3(Fighter)True Believer
Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR, *Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Lv5(Fighter)
Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper, *Dungeon Crasher II
Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut)+1 WIS
Lv9(Pious Templar of Bahamut),*Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick), Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv10(Pious Templar of Bahamut)*Improved Critical (Heavy Pick)
Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), +1 STR
Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut)
Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut)*Driving Attack
Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Feat, *Feat

I'd appreciate suggestions for other bull rush-related feats to replace the critical ones I have in the build now, and would be delighted if anyone finds a way to get barbarian back into the mix (and less delighted, but still grateful, if you find ways either build is broken).

Race:Human
Alignment:Neutral Good

STR-17 (13)
DEX-12 (4)
CON-14 (6)
INT-8 (0)
WIS-13 (5)
CHA-8 (0)

Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack
Lv2(Fighter 1)*Improved Bull Rush
Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, *Dungeon Crasher
Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR
Lv5(Fighter 4)*Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper
Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2)
Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,*Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick)
Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv10(Fighter 6)*Dungeon Crasher II
Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)Improved Sunder
Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR
Lv13(Fighter 7)
Lv14(Fighter 8)Driving Attack
Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6)Combat Brute

Gets you Driving Attack at level 14 so you have more time to have fun with it. Also gets you Combat Brute in the end too so you can follow up your driving attack with advancing blows.
Tanath
08-06-07, 04:12 PM Here is my build:

"Chunky Salsa"
1/2 Orc
Str 20
Con 14
Dex 8
Int 6
Wis 14
Chr 6

Barbarian 1 "Power Attack"
Fighter 1 "Imp. Bullrush"
Ftr 2 "Dungeon Crasher" "Weapon Focus: Lucerne Hammer"
Ftr 3
Ftr 4 "Weapon Spec: Lucerne Hammer"
Ftr 5 "Shock Trooper"
Ftr 6 "Dungeon Crasher 2"
Bear Warrior 1
Bear 2 "Weapon Mastery: Piercing"
Bear 3
Bear 4
Bear 5 "Knockback"
Ftr 7
Ftr 8 Driving Attack

A. The piercing mastery applies to both the Lucerne Hammer AND the claws and bite of the bear forms, as they do piercing damage as well.

B. Knockback and Driving Attack are overlapping, but "Salsa" only gets to use knockback while in brown bear form. Driving attack can be used in both forms.

C. At 13th, his bullrush on a charge is an impressive +24 to his strength check. (38 Strength = +14, +4 for large, +4 for the feat, +2 for charging)

Double check my math here, since I'm tired today

Also, my DnD partner in crime is playing a kobold trapsmith, so I will be bullrushing the monster through a line of traps when possible.
Tanath
08-06-07, 04:59 PM Ok, here is the cheese.

Lets say I'm a raging brown bear, with my opponent against the wall.

I hit with a claw, 1d8+18. With Knockback, I Free-action bullrush, knock him agains the wall, bullrush at +24. and do 8d6+42 from Dungeon crasher II. Then again for the second claw. Then again with the bite for 2d6+11. Then a haste claw.

So, grand total of damage in one round, assuming all attacks (at +28 to hit, they'd better) hit:

3d8+34d6+233= an average of 366 damage in one round.

If I power attack for full, then it becomes an average of 410, and a maximum of 505.

Thats not figuring in any spells or items, except haste.

I think I just broke DnD.

And yes, Ceet(My trapsmithing partner) will be able to cast wall of stone.

Charlie
Will be playing this character in Ruins of Greyhawk, where there will be lots of walls.
Vanadium
08-06-07, 06:04 PM Ok, here is the cheese.

Lets say I'm a raging brown bear, with my opponent against the wall.

I hit with a claw, 1d8+18. With Knockback, I Free-action bullrush, knock him agains the wall, bullrush at +24. and do 8d6+42 from Dungeon crasher II. Then again for the second claw. Then again with the bite for 2d6+11. Then a haste claw.

So, grand total of damage in one round, assuming all attacks (at +28 to hit, they'd better) hit:

3d8+34d6+233= an average of 366 damage in one round.

If I power attack for full, then it becomes an average of 410, and a maximum of 505.

Thats not figuring in any spells or items, except haste.

I think I just broke DnD.

And yes, Ceet(My trapsmithing partner) will be able to cast wall of stone.

Charlie
Will be playing this character in Ruins of Greyhawk, where there will be lots of walls.

The only unfortunate thing is that you will run into substantial table variation as to whether or not you qualify for Knockback, as you are not large all the time. That, and Knockback is critical for the build.

Also, you don't want to Power Attack for full unless you are fighting something like a 2 AC ooze, because of the massive damage from Dungeon Crasher. It would really stink to foil about 60 damage because you wanted about 5 points extra.
Tanath
08-06-07, 06:08 PM Agreed on both. I included Driving attack for those reasons especially.

Also, my buddy pointed out that I can only range once per day until 14th level, which does totally suck....I wouldn't play this build in a home game.

However, Salsa is still pretty damn vicious un-beared.
Vanadium
08-06-07, 07:01 PM Agreed on both. I included Driving attack for those reasons especially.

Also, my buddy pointed out that I can only range once per day until 14th level, which does totally suck....I wouldn't play this build in a home game.

However, Salsa is still pretty damn vicious un-beared.

You could always go Human and settle for slightly lower strength. The Extra Rage you'd pick up from the human bonus feat would make up for it.
Tanath
08-06-07, 07:05 PM Good point there.....I could drop con down to 14, make is int a 12, and actually not be skill retarded either...

Something to think about.
jstorrie
08-06-07, 07:49 PM If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level.

Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it?
Jay_Ibero_911
08-06-07, 08:46 PM If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level.

Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it?

It's open, it's just that asside from centaurs there are no naturally large PC races that can legally take Knockback.
Tanath
08-06-07, 10:57 PM If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level.

Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it?

I'm pretty sure reckless rage doesnt stack with the bear buffs, but if it did, I'd take darkvision over a skill point.

I do qualify for knockback, just not all the time. It is "inactive" when I am not in bear form. Just like buying a headband of intellect for combat expertise, and CE being "inactive" when you remove the headband.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-06-07, 11:53 PM I do qualify for knockback, just not all the time. It is "inactive" when I am not in bear form. Just like buying a headband of intellect for combat expertise, and CE being "inactive" when you remove the headband.

The point is, you have to normally be large all the time to legally take knockback. Only be large while raging isn't enough time to actually learn the feat to begin with. Unlike qualifying for Combat Expertise using a headband of intellect which is constantly active unless removed. You would need to be permanently enlarged or otherwise capable of being large size all the time (such as an 8th level druid who can wild shape into a large animal for 24 hours a day) to be able to take the feat to begin with. I'm fairly sure none of this is explicitly written out, but with only being able to be large for a few minutes a day at best, there's no way you could reasonably learn the feat in that time.
Tanath
08-07-07, 12:27 AM While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation"
Jay_Ibero_911
08-07-07, 12:37 AM While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation"

Exactly. No where in the rules does it say that you can take a feat if you only temporarily or conditionally qualify. It'd be like a 10 STR 3rd level cleric arguing he can take power attack because he can cast bull's strength a few times a day. Or a 10 STR commoner trying to take it because he is physically capable of recieving a bull's strength spell if a random cleric decided to stop by and cast it on him.

Now I wish I had a 1st level centaur to take into the ruins though. Centaur 6/Fighter 6/Barbarian/whatever...Wonder if anyone has a centuar left that they only played once or twice...
Banor
08-07-07, 10:06 AM The Centaur would not qualify to be a GHR character thus while he will be able to play the mods he wont be able to get the GHR Sourcebook goodies.
Mommy was an Orc
08-07-07, 10:08 AM While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation"

It doesn't say anywhere that Barbarian 1s aren't capable of casting spells as 20th level Wizards.

In order to take Knockback, you need to be a large creature. You're someone who can briefly change into a large creature - should a Cleric 12 who can cast Divine Power qualify for a +11 BAB feat?

There are different reasons why people say 'Expect Table Variation' - in this case, it means, "I don't know why you'd think this would work outside of your home game, but hey, find out the hard way."
Jay_Ibero_911
08-07-07, 10:22 AM The Centaur would not qualify to be a GHR character thus while he will be able to play the mods he wont be able to get the GHR Sourcebook goodies.

Why not? If he was still 1st level he could change his region to greyhawk and reap the benefits.
Tanath
08-07-07, 11:45 AM In order to take Knockback, you need to be a large creature. You're someone who can briefly change into a large creature - should a Cleric 12 who can cast Divine Power qualify for a +11 BAB feat?

Yes, and it (and any feats that list it as a prereq) are only "active" when it is cast. Otherwise, it is as if he did not have the feat
Jay_Ibero_911
08-07-07, 11:58 AM Yes, and it (and any feats that list it as a prereq) are only "active" when it is cast. Otherwise, it is as if he did not have the feat

But don't qualify to take the feat to begin with. Now if you somehow got the feat without having to qualify for it normally, that's different (like a 10 dex ranger doing TWF). Being large and having the ability to become large are two different things. Knockback requires that you either be large or be considered large through powerful build. You are not large, therefore you do not qualify to take the feat, even though you possess a limited ability to become large.
bitznarf
08-07-07, 06:40 PM Why not? If he was still 1st level he could change his region to greyhawk and reap the benefits.
There is currently no way that I know of to change your home region to 'the Domain of Greyhawk'. As I understand it you have to start with that or you are SoL.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-07-07, 07:34 PM There is currently no way that I know of to change your home region to 'the Domain of Greyhawk'. As I understand it you have to start with that or you are SoL.

What do you mean there's no way to change it? As I understand it, you just write "Greyhawk" under home region...
jstorrie
08-07-07, 07:48 PM Uh. No. There are specific restrictions about when and how you can change your home region. Check the LGCS. Further, the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook specifically states that you can't change your home region to Domain of Greyhawk, ever; your character has to start there. Since you'd need your starting home region to be Bright Lands to play a Centaur, I don't see how you can ever get the Greyhawk Ruins accesses, unless there's some AR reward that lets you move...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 08-03-07, 07:20 PM	Race:Human Alignment: STR-17 (13) DEX-14 (6) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-11 (3) CHA-8 (0) Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush Lv3(Fighter)Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dire Pick) , Dungeon Crasher Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter)Weapon Focus(Piercing) Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper Lv7(Fighter)Dungeon Crasher 2 Lv8(Exotic Weapon Master)Uncanny Blow, +1 STR Lv9(Fighter)Weapon Specialization Lv10(Fighter)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv11(Fighter) Lv12(Fighter)Reckless Rage, Improved Sunder, +1 STR Lv13(Fighter) Lv14(Fighter)Driving Attack Lv15(Barbarian)Combat Brute The ultimate goal of this build is to combine the dungeon crasher bull rush ability with the driving attack feat allowing you to make a single attack as a full round action that grants a free bull rush with your full damage bonus added on, then ideally slamming them into a wall for more damage and if you beat their check by enough, knock them prone too. Really cool combo, if very situational. Heedless Charge into the bad guy first round, then use driving attack next. It should hurt. [edit] Changed the build because with dragon disciple I wouldn't qualify for Driving Attack until 15th level.
ShinAkuma2 08-03-07, 09:44 PM	...That's ridiculous. I am playing a Dungeon Crasher fighter for Greyhawk, too, but Dungeon Crasher was added as an afterthought, rather than built around. For the first 7 levels, the build is practically identical (different stat spread, though). Mine's a Divine Crusader after that...I figured all those buffs + Righteous Might's size bonus would work pretty well with smushing people into walls.
RedKnightofKet 08-03-07, 10:53 PM	I have a similar build, except mine will go Pious Templar of Hurakon. He's taking on the concept of the Robot Chicken sketch of Ted Turner acting as "Captain Planet" - should be good times. :D
ShinAkuma2 08-04-07, 04:45 AM	"You got glass in my eye!!" "And my foot in your :censored: !" (no need to get myself modded) Classic.
Orc_Courtesy 08-05-07, 01:46 AM	Following RedKnightofKet's suggestion, I've been trying to work out a Pious Templar version of Jay_Ibero_911's build, but the problem I'm finding is that with the barbarian level in the mix the Driving Attack doesn't show up until the character is stepping offstage at level 15. Race:Human Alignment:Neutral Good STR-17 (13) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-13 (5) CHA-8 (0) Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter 1)Improved Bull Rush Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, Dungeon Crasher Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter 4)Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick) Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2) Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick) Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv10(Fighter 6)Dungeon Crasher II Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)Improved Critical (Heavy Pick) Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6) Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut 7) Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), Driving Attack Feats with are bonus feats from fighter or pious templar, or alternative class features that replace bonus feats. Things work out more elegantly with a straight progression from fighter to pious templar: Lv1(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter)Dungeon Crasher Lv3(Fighter)True Believer Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR, Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick) Lv5(Fighter) Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper, Dungeon Crasher II Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut)+1 WIS Lv9(Pious Templar of Bahamut),Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick), Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv10(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Improved Critical (Heavy Pick) Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), +1 STR Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Driving Attack Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Feat, *Feat I'd appreciate suggestions for other bull rush-related feats to replace the critical ones I have in the build now, and would be delighted if anyone finds a way to get barbarian back into the mix (and less delighted, but still grateful, if you find ways either build is broken).
ShinAkuma2 08-05-07, 07:00 AM	I don't think you have room for it, but if you can fit it (or even save it for post-retirement :P ), Combat Brute has a good tactic for bull-rushing, which could give all your attacks in the next round a hefty boost to damage. edit: O hey, you do have room for it if you replace Power Critical with Improved Sunder. I'm not sure if you want to do that, though.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-05-07, 10:25 AM	Following RedKnightofKet's suggestion, I've been trying to work out a Pious Templar version of Jay_Ibero_911's build, but the problem I'm finding is that with the barbarian level in the mix the Driving Attack doesn't show up until the character is stepping offstage at level 15. Race:Human Alignment:Neutral Good STR-17 (13) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-13 (5) CHA-8 (0) Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter 1)Improved Bull Rush Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, Dungeon Crasher Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter 4)Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick) Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2) Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick) Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv10(Fighter 6)Dungeon Crasher II Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)Improved Critical (Heavy Pick) Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6) Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut 7) Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), Driving Attack Feats with are bonus feats from fighter or pious templar, or alternative class features that replace bonus feats. Things work out more elegantly with a straight progression from fighter to pious templar: Lv1(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter)Dungeon Crasher Lv3(Fighter)True Believer Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR, Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick) Lv5(Fighter) Lv6(Fighter)Shock Trooper, Dungeon Crasher II Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut)+1 WIS Lv9(Pious Templar of Bahamut),Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick), Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv10(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Improved Critical (Heavy Pick) Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Power Critical (Heavy Pick), +1 STR Lv13(Pious Templar of Bahamut) Lv14(Pious Templar of Bahamut)Driving Attack Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 8)Feat, Feat I'd appreciate suggestions for other bull rush-related feats to replace the critical ones I have in the build now, and would be delighted if anyone finds a way to get barbarian back into the mix (and less delighted, but still grateful, if you find ways either build is broken). Race:Human Alignment:Neutral Good STR-17 (13) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-13 (5) CHA-8 (0) Lv1(Barbarian)Extra Rage, Power Attack Lv2(Fighter 1)Improved Bull Rush Lv3(Fighter 2)True Believer, Dungeon Crasher Lv4(Fighter 3)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter 4)Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick) Lv6(Pious Templar of Bahamut 1)Shock Trooper Lv7(Pious Templar of Bahamut 2) Lv8(Pious Templar of Bahamut 3)+1 WIS,Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick) Lv9(Fighter 5)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv10(Fighter 6)Dungeon Crasher II Lv11(Pious Templar of Bahamut 4)Improved Sunder Lv12(Pious Templar of Bahamut 5)Reckless Rage, +1 STR Lv13(Fighter 7) Lv14(Fighter 8)Driving Attack Lv15(Pious Templar of Bahamut 6)Combat Brute Gets you Driving Attack at level 14 so you have more time to have fun with it. Also gets you Combat Brute in the end too so you can follow up your driving attack with advancing blows.
Tanath 08-06-07, 04:12 PM	Here is my build: "Chunky Salsa" 1/2 Orc Str 20 Con 14 Dex 8 Int 6 Wis 14 Chr 6 Barbarian 1 "Power Attack" Fighter 1 "Imp. Bullrush" Ftr 2 "Dungeon Crasher" "Weapon Focus: Lucerne Hammer" Ftr 3 Ftr 4 "Weapon Spec: Lucerne Hammer" Ftr 5 "Shock Trooper" Ftr 6 "Dungeon Crasher 2" Bear Warrior 1 Bear 2 "Weapon Mastery: Piercing" Bear 3 Bear 4 Bear 5 "Knockback" Ftr 7 Ftr 8 Driving Attack A. The piercing mastery applies to both the Lucerne Hammer AND the claws and bite of the bear forms, as they do piercing damage as well. B. Knockback and Driving Attack are overlapping, but "Salsa" only gets to use knockback while in brown bear form. Driving attack can be used in both forms. C. At 13th, his bullrush on a charge is an impressive +24 to his strength check. (38 Strength = +14, +4 for large, +4 for the feat, +2 for charging) Double check my math here, since I'm tired today Also, my DnD partner in crime is playing a kobold trapsmith, so I will be bullrushing the monster through a line of traps when possible.
Tanath 08-06-07, 04:59 PM	Ok, here is the cheese. Lets say I'm a raging brown bear, with my opponent against the wall. I hit with a claw, 1d8+18. With Knockback, I Free-action bullrush, knock him agains the wall, bullrush at +24. and do 8d6+42 from Dungeon crasher II. Then again for the second claw. Then again with the bite for 2d6+11. Then a haste claw. So, grand total of damage in one round, assuming all attacks (at +28 to hit, they'd better) hit: 3d8+34d6+233= an average of 366 damage in one round. If I power attack for full, then it becomes an average of 410, and a maximum of 505. Thats not figuring in any spells or items, except haste. I think I just broke DnD. And yes, Ceet(My trapsmithing partner) will be able to cast wall of stone. Charlie Will be playing this character in Ruins of Greyhawk, where there will be lots of walls.
Vanadium 08-06-07, 06:04 PM	Ok, here is the cheese. Lets say I'm a raging brown bear, with my opponent against the wall. I hit with a claw, 1d8+18. With Knockback, I Free-action bullrush, knock him agains the wall, bullrush at +24. and do 8d6+42 from Dungeon crasher II. Then again for the second claw. Then again with the bite for 2d6+11. Then a haste claw. So, grand total of damage in one round, assuming all attacks (at +28 to hit, they'd better) hit: 3d8+34d6+233= an average of 366 damage in one round. If I power attack for full, then it becomes an average of 410, and a maximum of 505. Thats not figuring in any spells or items, except haste. I think I just broke DnD. And yes, Ceet(My trapsmithing partner) will be able to cast wall of stone. Charlie Will be playing this character in Ruins of Greyhawk, where there will be lots of walls. The only unfortunate thing is that you will run into substantial table variation as to whether or not you qualify for Knockback, as you are not large all the time. That, and Knockback is critical for the build. Also, you don't want to Power Attack for full unless you are fighting something like a 2 AC ooze, because of the massive damage from Dungeon Crasher. It would really stink to foil about 60 damage because you wanted about 5 points extra.
Tanath 08-06-07, 06:08 PM	Agreed on both. I included Driving attack for those reasons especially. Also, my buddy pointed out that I can only range once per day until 14th level, which does totally suck....I wouldn't play this build in a home game. However, Salsa is still pretty damn vicious un-beared.
Vanadium 08-06-07, 07:01 PM	Agreed on both. I included Driving attack for those reasons especially. Also, my buddy pointed out that I can only range once per day until 14th level, which does totally suck....I wouldn't play this build in a home game. However, Salsa is still pretty damn vicious un-beared. You could always go Human and settle for slightly lower strength. The Extra Rage you'd pick up from the human bonus feat would make up for it.
Tanath 08-06-07, 07:05 PM	Good point there.....I could drop con down to 14, make is int a 12, and actually not be skill retarded either... Something to think about.
jstorrie 08-06-07, 07:49 PM	If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level. Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it?
Jay_Ibero_911 08-06-07, 08:46 PM	If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level. Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it? It's open, it's just that asside from centaurs there are no naturally large PC races that can legally take Knockback.
Tanath 08-06-07, 10:57 PM	If you don't have room in your build for Reckless Rage, taking Human over Half-orc so that you can get Reckless Rage at 1st level overcomes the lower Strength; then you're basically just trading darkvision for a skill point per level. Knockback isn't Open in LG, is it? I'm pretty sure reckless rage doesnt stack with the bear buffs, but if it did, I'd take darkvision over a skill point. I do qualify for knockback, just not all the time. It is "inactive" when I am not in bear form. Just like buying a headband of intellect for combat expertise, and CE being "inactive" when you remove the headband.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-06-07, 11:53 PM	I do qualify for knockback, just not all the time. It is "inactive" when I am not in bear form. Just like buying a headband of intellect for combat expertise, and CE being "inactive" when you remove the headband. The point is, you have to normally be large all the time to legally take knockback. Only be large while raging isn't enough time to actually learn the feat to begin with. Unlike qualifying for Combat Expertise using a headband of intellect which is constantly active unless removed. You would need to be permanently enlarged or otherwise capable of being large size all the time (such as an 8th level druid who can wild shape into a large animal for 24 hours a day) to be able to take the feat to begin with. I'm fairly sure none of this is explicitly written out, but with only being able to be large for a few minutes a day at best, there's no way you could reasonably learn the feat in that time.
Tanath 08-07-07, 12:27 AM	While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation"
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 12:37 AM	While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation" Exactly. No where in the rules does it say that you can take a feat if you only temporarily or conditionally qualify. It'd be like a 10 STR 3rd level cleric arguing he can take power attack because he can cast bull's strength a few times a day. Or a 10 STR commoner trying to take it because he is physically capable of recieving a bull's strength spell if a random cleric decided to stop by and cast it on him. Now I wish I had a 1st level centaur to take into the ruins though. Centaur 6/Fighter 6/Barbarian/whatever...Wonder if anyone has a centuar left that they only played once or twice...
Banor 08-07-07, 10:06 AM	The Centaur would not qualify to be a GHR character thus while he will be able to play the mods he wont be able to get the GHR Sourcebook goodies.
Mommy was an Orc 08-07-07, 10:08 AM	While logic does support that, the RaW does not. Its being debated on the Living Greyhawk list, and its been regulated to a "Table Variation" It doesn't say anywhere that Barbarian 1s aren't capable of casting spells as 20th level Wizards. In order to take Knockback, you need to be a large creature. You're someone who can briefly change into a large creature - should a Cleric 12 who can cast Divine Power qualify for a +11 BAB feat? There are different reasons why people say 'Expect Table Variation' - in this case, it means, "I don't know why you'd think this would work outside of your home game, but hey, find out the hard way."
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 10:22 AM	The Centaur would not qualify to be a GHR character thus while he will be able to play the mods he wont be able to get the GHR Sourcebook goodies. Why not? If he was still 1st level he could change his region to greyhawk and reap the benefits.
Tanath 08-07-07, 11:45 AM	In order to take Knockback, you need to be a large creature. You're someone who can briefly change into a large creature - should a Cleric 12 who can cast Divine Power qualify for a +11 BAB feat? Yes, and it (and any feats that list it as a prereq) are only "active" when it is cast. Otherwise, it is as if he did not have the feat
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 11:58 AM	Yes, and it (and any feats that list it as a prereq) are only "active" when it is cast. Otherwise, it is as if he did not have the feat But don't qualify to take the feat to begin with. Now if you somehow got the feat without having to qualify for it normally, that's different (like a 10 dex ranger doing TWF). Being large and having the ability to become large are two different things. Knockback requires that you either be large or be considered large through powerful build. You are not large, therefore you do not qualify to take the feat, even though you possess a limited ability to become large.
bitznarf 08-07-07, 06:40 PM	Why not? If he was still 1st level he could change his region to greyhawk and reap the benefits. There is currently no way that I know of to change your home region to 'the Domain of Greyhawk'. As I understand it you have to start with that or you are SoL.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 07:34 PM	There is currently no way that I know of to change your home region to 'the Domain of Greyhawk'. As I understand it you have to start with that or you are SoL. What do you mean there's no way to change it? As I understand it, you just write "Greyhawk" under home region...
jstorrie 08-07-07, 07:48 PM	Uh. No. There are specific restrictions about when and how you can change your home region. Check the LGCS. Further, the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook specifically states that you can't change your home region to Domain of Greyhawk, ever; your character has to start there. Since you'd need your starting home region to be Bright Lands to play a Centaur, I don't see how you can ever get the Greyhawk Ruins accesses, unless there's some AR reward that lets you move...