Dwarf Tankish build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dwarf Tankish build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alpha_Nerd
01-16-07, 10:37 AM I was thinking about making a dwarf frontliner because well, I like frontliners, and here was the basic plan

str 16
dex 10
con 17
int 8
wis 14
cha 6

1 Rng 1 Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
2 Ftr 1 Power Attack
3 Rng 2 Close-Quarters Combat
4 Ftr 2 Heavy Armor Optimization
5 Rng 3 Endurance
6 Deepwarden 1 True believer
7 Deepwarden 2
8 Battlesmith 1
9 Battlesmith 2 Improved Heavy Armor Optimization
10 Pious Templar 1
11 Pious Templar 2
12 Pious Templar 3 Something
13 Battlesmith 3
14 Pious Templar 4 Something
15 Battlesmith 4 Something

This is a pretty rough sketch, and any input would be appreciated, I figure with Mithril Full-plate and a Tower Shield I'll be pretty good for my AC. I was thinking titan fighting, but the 13 dex for dodge wasn't appetizing.
LachlarlanIII
01-16-07, 10:53 AM This is a pretty rough sketch, and any input would be appreciated, I figure with Mithril Full-plate and a Tower Shield I'll be pretty good for my AC. I was thinking titan fighting, but the 13 dex for dodge wasn't appetizing.

Heavy Armor Optimization doesn't work with Mithral Full-Plate.

Plus, Mithral Full-Plate isn't worth buying unless you have a good Dex bonus to AC, which your stats clearly don't.

If you're in the BDK region, I'd suggest looking at the Dwarf meta-org for Heavy Plate armor.
Alpha_Nerd
01-16-07, 11:24 AM hmm, I didn't think about mithril full-plate becoming medium armor. However, with deepwarden's con to AC I'll be able to max it out easily.
LachlarlanIII
01-16-07, 12:03 PM As the build is now, you're either looking at losing the HAO feats and using Mithral/Dragoncraft Full-Plate, or keeping the HAO feats and using non Mithral/Dragoncraft Full-Plate.

If you can find access to Mountain Plate, your feat selections would be great. Mithral Mountain Plate is still considered heavy armor.

If you drop the HAO feats, I would take Improved Toughness at 3rd, Close Quarters Fighting at 4th, and Improved Crit at 9th.

You should look at Armor Specialization from PHB2 in case it becomes Core.

Also, keep in mind, as a Tank if the enemy can't hit you, they'll move onto something squishier. A Tank's role is to absorb damage. If they aren't attacking you because they aren't hitting you, you're not doing the job you set for yourself.
Japangirl
01-16-07, 01:20 PM ]Also, keep in mind, as a Tank if the enemy can't hit you, they'll move onto something squishier. A Tank's role is to absorb damage. If they aren't attacking you because they aren't hitting you, you're not doing the job you set for yourself.

*Nodnodnod*. My rogue figured this out the hard way. The bear was unhittable so the monsters with +35 to hit smacked at me instead, and of course my AC is only 28 so they weren't missing me.

Full attacks from Huge dragons hurt. So do full attacks from Ice Devils.
CrystalBlue
01-16-07, 01:55 PM You know what would be a good feat for that? Goad. It's just too bad you need a 13+ Cha for it and most fighters dump-stat Cha. But that would be a great way for you to 'hold agro'. Goad every round on the BBEG and keep him hitting you. Wish there was an area of effect Goad.
LGMoses
01-16-07, 02:20 PM dwarf tank"ish"? dwarfs should always be able to tank even if they're bards or friggin wizards!!!
Alpha_Nerd
01-16-07, 02:45 PM What if I did something like Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Deepwarden 2/Bear warrior 4/Warshaper 4? With Con to AC and an 18-20 con base + bear stats + reckless rage (I think it stacks with bear warrior?) It would be a pretty comedy tank build don't you think? The only problem is no melded armor for me :(
LachlarlanIII
01-16-07, 02:55 PM You know what would be a good feat for that? Goad. It's just too bad you need a 13+ Cha for it and most fighters dump-stat Cha. But that would be a great way for you to 'hold agro'. Goad every round on the BBEG and keep him hitting you. Wish there was an area of effect Goad.

I think Knights have that ability.
CrystalBlue
01-16-07, 03:53 PM And it's too bad Knights haven't been listed as Core. Damn you PHBII! You taunt me like a skantily clad gender of my choice! Damn yous! *shakes paw*

When I think of tanks, I don't usually think of AC. I'd go more on the HP side. Sure, you can have a sick AC with feats and all, but what you really want is standing power. You need to take a 150 point disitegrate to the face, shrug it off, then cleave the wizard in two. Toughness and Improved Toughness FTW! :D
Japangirl
01-16-07, 04:45 PM You need both AC and HP. HP do you little good (but certainly still help) when four things with four attacks a round at +30 that each have improved grab and do about 25-30 damage per hit are all full round attacking you. Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank will take (15*25) 375 damage assuming that there are no crits and only one 1 on the d20s, a reasonable assumption. I don't know very many barbarians, even in rage, who can take that much punishment.

Yes, I did see this situation. Each thingy-that-cannot-be-named also had slightly over 300 hitpoints.
LachlarlanIII
01-16-07, 04:59 PM Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank

Anyone I know? ;)

AC is important, but not as much as HP. You're AC should be low enough to let the BBEG hit with his primary attack, and high enough that he misses with the rest.
GorTeX
01-18-07, 12:47 PM Heavy Armor Optimization doesn't work with Mithral Full-Plate.

That is not what the DMG says...it says to treat it as one category lighter for the purposes of Movement and Other Limitations.

Heavy Armor Optimization is NOT a limitation..there is no reason to prevent someone from using HAO with Mithral Full-Plate. Not even the FAQ answer, which admits that the interpetation it offers is not what the DMG says and that the FAQ Interpetation is a simple solution.

Even if you allow Barbarians to wear it with no penalty (armor proficiency could be seen as a limitation), HAO (and GHAO) should be allowed to work with Mithral Full Plate
GorTeX
01-18-07, 12:50 PM You need both AC and HP. HP do you little good (but certainly still help) when four things with four attacks a round at +30 that each have improved grab and do about 25-30 damage per hit are all full round attacking you. Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank will take (15*25) 375 damage assuming that there are no crits and only one 1 on the d20s, a reasonable assumption. I don't know very many barbarians, even in rage, who can take that much punishment.

Yes, I did see this situation. Each thingy-that-cannot-be-named also had slightly over 300 hitpoints.

AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50%
cetiken
01-18-07, 02:16 PM AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack.. even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50%

Exactly. And anyone who wants to tank should keep that in mind - especially when they want to start playing apl 14 or so. The trick of it is that you can't predict what access you'll get.

He'res an example I've been thinking about:

Dwf Ftr 7/ Battlesmith 5
15/13/16/13/8/6
+1 str +2 con stat bumbs
Feets: Combat Expertise, WF: Warhammer, Dodge, Titanfighting, WS: Warhammer, Exotic Armor Proficiency, Endurance, Heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy Armor Optimization
AC Gear: +2 Ring of Protection, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +4 Battle Plate, +4 Tower Shield, Dusty Rose Ioun Stone
Skills: 5 ranks in tumble

This character has 39 AC (+17 armor, + 7 shield, +2 deflection, +2 natural, + 1 insight) while standing around. vs his dodge buddy its 40 or 43 if large. If he's dodging a large guy and uses combat expertise while fighting defensively his AC is 51.

Mr. +34 to hit goon now needs a 17 or better to hit him. Mr. Goon's friends only need a 14, but that’s still pretty decent. With some lucky access it can get even better.

The only problem witht this build is that if the rogue decided to tumble around to the flank, the monsters will probably get bored of wailing on him and eat her.
Alpha_Nerd
01-18-07, 02:39 PM What if you picked up toughness (i know it's bad) in there somewhere and put 1 level into dwarven defender. I know the whole having to stand still thing is a big drawback, but when the situation fits it's a huge buff.
cetiken
01-18-07, 04:43 PM The toughness feet is lame.

The only reason that I'm willing to consider endurance (and using a poopy weapon like the warhammer) is that the Battlesmith lets the fighter actually enchant armor which is kinda spiffy.

Also being immoble is annoying as a good tank needs to keep adjusting his position so as to be between the mosnters and the squishies.
Japangirl
01-18-07, 06:20 PM AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50%

Our tanky type had a 49 AC, but was large so squeezed in a 5-foot hallway so a 45, but was hasted so a 46. They missed a lot, which was good.

And yes, the biggest problem I have with him as our tank is when I tumble into the flank I get eaten a lot. Small size rogues with 28 AC are much much squishier than bears with 49 AC.
clannagh
01-18-07, 06:43 PM Our tanky type had a 49 AC, but was large so squeezed in a 5-foot hallway so a 45, but was hasted so a 46. They missed a lot, which was good.

And yes, the biggest problem I have with him as our tank is when I tumble into the flank I get eaten a lot. Small size rogues with 28 AC are much much squishier than bears with 49 AC.

yah .. massive AC tanks are only good if they stay on the ground to keep the critters busy while teh rest of the party climb trees or fly and do ranged attacks

otherwise the baddies soon give up on teh ludicrous AC tank and go munch something else
Japangirl
01-18-07, 06:46 PM Ah well. The bear with AC also is a grapple monster. So at least then I can go have fun!

(Pinned planetar + wounding weapon = fun for the rogue!)
_m_
01-18-07, 07:17 PM idealy, you want your main tank's ac to be high enough that the primary attack hits her, and all the rest miss. that way she should take a survivable amount of damage, without getting wailed on, but the baddy shouldnt get bored enough to go eat somethign else.
GorTeX
01-18-07, 08:04 PM Dwf Ftr 7/ Battlesmith 5
15/13/16/13/8/6
+1 str +2 con stat bumbs

Why go battlesmith if your wisdom mod is -1 (missing out on the +wisdom to damge ability)
cetiken
01-19-07, 12:53 AM Why go battlesmith if your wisdom mod is -1 (missing out on the +wisdom to damge ability)

True but you're getting +2 sacred bonus to armor and the ability to craft arms and armor makes your gp/xp ratio much, much better. It'd be a viable (and probably more interesting) build to go straight fighter. Armor enchants would cost a lot but you wouldn't have to take endurance and could get a few more combat options with those fighter levels like improved unarmed strike + improved grapple and find room for improved trip too. All of which would be good things.
Some_call_me_Tim
01-19-07, 03:50 PM The toughness feet is lame.Especially, thanks to WotC making Improved Toughness that doesn't require toughness. :confused:

Also being immoble is annoying as a good tank needs to keep adjusting his position so as to be between the mosnters and the squishies.It takes a while to develop good tactics with Defensive Stance. Use it when you have the enemy cornered or you are in position to block them not matter how they maneuver. Even if you have to come out of defensive stance it isn't a deal breaker because you can exit it when you want and only suffer a -2 Strength penalty.

As for having too high of AC, I have a dwarven defender with this problem. It is only a real problem if the judge meta-games too much. If he does as most of the judges here do, spending two or three rounds before giving up on trying to hit you, you still have the enemy tied up for a couple of rounds. I have no problem with the enemy looking for squishy targets but they have no way to tell if my AC is 20 (full plate and shield) or AC 40 (armor plus a cart load of bonuses) by just looking at me.
Iswald
01-20-07, 09:49 AM That is not what the DMG says...it says to treat it as one category lighter for the purposes of Movement and Other Limitations.

The FAQ basicly says to treat mithral full plate as medium armor. Except for the cost, it ends up being treated as medium armor for everything else.
GorTeX
01-21-07, 02:16 AM The FAQ basicly says to treat mithral full plate as medium armor. Except for the cost, it ends up being treated as medium armor for everything else.

yes, but even the FAQ admits that its interepetation is NOT what the DMG says--it's just a suggested way of ruling it (and a simple way at that)
Mommy was an Orc
01-21-07, 04:14 PM AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50%

AC of 32 most certainly does have an effect on a +30 attack - most things with that level of attack also have Power Attack. Assuming the comparison is the Barbarian with the 18 AC and the thing with the +30 attack swings 5 times, has multiattack, and puts 14 points on Power Attack.

That's an extra 70 hp of damage onto the Barbarian, that the AC 32 guy isn't taking. Same to-hit chance...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 01-16-07, 10:37 AM	I was thinking about making a dwarf frontliner because well, I like frontliners, and here was the basic plan str 16 dex 10 con 17 int 8 wis 14 cha 6 1 Rng 1 Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe 2 Ftr 1 Power Attack 3 Rng 2 Close-Quarters Combat 4 Ftr 2 Heavy Armor Optimization 5 Rng 3 Endurance 6 Deepwarden 1 True believer 7 Deepwarden 2 8 Battlesmith 1 9 Battlesmith 2 Improved Heavy Armor Optimization 10 Pious Templar 1 11 Pious Templar 2 12 Pious Templar 3 Something 13 Battlesmith 3 14 Pious Templar 4 Something 15 Battlesmith 4 Something This is a pretty rough sketch, and any input would be appreciated, I figure with Mithril Full-plate and a Tower Shield I'll be pretty good for my AC. I was thinking titan fighting, but the 13 dex for dodge wasn't appetizing.
LachlarlanIII 01-16-07, 10:53 AM	This is a pretty rough sketch, and any input would be appreciated, I figure with Mithril Full-plate and a Tower Shield I'll be pretty good for my AC. I was thinking titan fighting, but the 13 dex for dodge wasn't appetizing. Heavy Armor Optimization doesn't work with Mithral Full-Plate. Plus, Mithral Full-Plate isn't worth buying unless you have a good Dex bonus to AC, which your stats clearly don't. If you're in the BDK region, I'd suggest looking at the Dwarf meta-org for Heavy Plate armor.
Alpha_Nerd 01-16-07, 11:24 AM	hmm, I didn't think about mithril full-plate becoming medium armor. However, with deepwarden's con to AC I'll be able to max it out easily.
LachlarlanIII 01-16-07, 12:03 PM	As the build is now, you're either looking at losing the HAO feats and using Mithral/Dragoncraft Full-Plate, or keeping the HAO feats and using non Mithral/Dragoncraft Full-Plate. If you can find access to Mountain Plate, your feat selections would be great. Mithral Mountain Plate is still considered heavy armor. If you drop the HAO feats, I would take Improved Toughness at 3rd, Close Quarters Fighting at 4th, and Improved Crit at 9th. You should look at Armor Specialization from PHB2 in case it becomes Core. Also, keep in mind, as a Tank if the enemy can't hit you, they'll move onto something squishier. A Tank's role is to absorb damage. If they aren't attacking you because they aren't hitting you, you're not doing the job you set for yourself.
Japangirl 01-16-07, 01:20 PM	]Also, keep in mind, as a Tank if the enemy can't hit you, they'll move onto something squishier. A Tank's role is to absorb damage. If they aren't attacking you because they aren't hitting you, you're not doing the job you set for yourself. Nodnodnod. My rogue figured this out the hard way. The bear was unhittable so the monsters with +35 to hit smacked at me instead, and of course my AC is only 28 so they weren't missing me. Full attacks from Huge dragons hurt. So do full attacks from Ice Devils.
CrystalBlue 01-16-07, 01:55 PM	You know what would be a good feat for that? Goad. It's just too bad you need a 13+ Cha for it and most fighters dump-stat Cha. But that would be a great way for you to 'hold agro'. Goad every round on the BBEG and keep him hitting you. Wish there was an area of effect Goad.
LGMoses 01-16-07, 02:20 PM	dwarf tank"ish"? dwarfs should always be able to tank even if they're bards or friggin wizards!!!
Alpha_Nerd 01-16-07, 02:45 PM	What if I did something like Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Deepwarden 2/Bear warrior 4/Warshaper 4? With Con to AC and an 18-20 con base + bear stats + reckless rage (I think it stacks with bear warrior?) It would be a pretty comedy tank build don't you think? The only problem is no melded armor for me :(
LachlarlanIII 01-16-07, 02:55 PM	You know what would be a good feat for that? Goad. It's just too bad you need a 13+ Cha for it and most fighters dump-stat Cha. But that would be a great way for you to 'hold agro'. Goad every round on the BBEG and keep him hitting you. Wish there was an area of effect Goad. I think Knights have that ability.
CrystalBlue 01-16-07, 03:53 PM	And it's too bad Knights haven't been listed as Core. Damn you PHBII! You taunt me like a skantily clad gender of my choice! Damn yous! shakes paw When I think of tanks, I don't usually think of AC. I'd go more on the HP side. Sure, you can have a sick AC with feats and all, but what you really want is standing power. You need to take a 150 point disitegrate to the face, shrug it off, then cleave the wizard in two. Toughness and Improved Toughness FTW! :D
Japangirl 01-16-07, 04:45 PM	You need both AC and HP. HP do you little good (but certainly still help) when four things with four attacks a round at +30 that each have improved grab and do about 25-30 damage per hit are all full round attacking you. Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank will take (15*25) 375 damage assuming that there are no crits and only one 1 on the d20s, a reasonable assumption. I don't know very many barbarians, even in rage, who can take that much punishment. Yes, I did see this situation. Each thingy-that-cannot-be-named also had slightly over 300 hitpoints.
LachlarlanIII 01-16-07, 04:59 PM	Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank Anyone I know? ;) AC is important, but not as much as HP. You're AC should be low enough to let the BBEG hit with his primary attack, and high enough that he misses with the rest.
GorTeX 01-18-07, 12:47 PM	Heavy Armor Optimization doesn't work with Mithral Full-Plate. That is not what the DMG says...it says to treat it as one category lighter for the purposes of Movement and Other Limitations. Heavy Armor Optimization is NOT a limitation..there is no reason to prevent someone from using HAO with Mithral Full-Plate. Not even the FAQ answer, which admits that the interpetation it offers is not what the DMG says and that the FAQ Interpetation is a simple solution. Even if you allow Barbarians to wear it with no penalty (armor proficiency could be seen as a limitation), HAO (and GHAO) should be allowed to work with Mithral Full Plate
GorTeX 01-18-07, 12:50 PM	You need both AC and HP. HP do you little good (but certainly still help) when four things with four attacks a round at +30 that each have improved grab and do about 25-30 damage per hit are all full round attacking you. Let's see, your average I am a barbarian I have lots of hitpoint but I have 18 AC tank will take (15*25) 375 damage assuming that there are no crits and only one 1 on the d20s, a reasonable assumption. I don't know very many barbarians, even in rage, who can take that much punishment. Yes, I did see this situation. Each thingy-that-cannot-be-named also had slightly over 300 hitpoints. AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50%
cetiken 01-18-07, 02:16 PM	AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack.. even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50% Exactly. And anyone who wants to tank should keep that in mind - especially when they want to start playing apl 14 or so. The trick of it is that you can't predict what access you'll get. He'res an example I've been thinking about: Dwf Ftr 7/ Battlesmith 5 15/13/16/13/8/6 +1 str +2 con stat bumbs Feets: Combat Expertise, WF: Warhammer, Dodge, Titanfighting, WS: Warhammer, Exotic Armor Proficiency, Endurance, Heavy Armor Optimization, Improved Heavy Armor Optimization AC Gear: +2 Ring of Protection, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +4 Battle Plate, +4 Tower Shield, Dusty Rose Ioun Stone Skills: 5 ranks in tumble This character has 39 AC (+17 armor, + 7 shield, +2 deflection, +2 natural, + 1 insight) while standing around. vs his dodge buddy its 40 or 43 if large. If he's dodging a large guy and uses combat expertise while fighting defensively his AC is 51. Mr. +34 to hit goon now needs a 17 or better to hit him. Mr. Goon's friends only need a 14, but that’s still pretty decent. With some lucky access it can get even better. The only problem witht this build is that if the rogue decided to tumble around to the flank, the monsters will probably get bored of wailing on him and eat her.
Alpha_Nerd 01-18-07, 02:39 PM	What if you picked up toughness (i know it's bad) in there somewhere and put 1 level into dwarven defender. I know the whole having to stand still thing is a big drawback, but when the situation fits it's a huge buff.
cetiken 01-18-07, 04:43 PM	The toughness feet is lame. The only reason that I'm willing to consider endurance (and using a poopy weapon like the warhammer) is that the Battlesmith lets the fighter actually enchant armor which is kinda spiffy. Also being immoble is annoying as a good tank needs to keep adjusting his position so as to be between the mosnters and the squishies.
Japangirl 01-18-07, 06:20 PM	AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50% Our tanky type had a 49 AC, but was large so squeezed in a 5-foot hallway so a 45, but was hasted so a 46. They missed a lot, which was good. And yes, the biggest problem I have with him as our tank is when I tumble into the flank I get eaten a lot. Small size rogues with 28 AC are much much squishier than bears with 49 AC.
clannagh 01-18-07, 06:43 PM	Our tanky type had a 49 AC, but was large so squeezed in a 5-foot hallway so a 45, but was hasted so a 46. They missed a lot, which was good. And yes, the biggest problem I have with him as our tank is when I tumble into the flank I get eaten a lot. Small size rogues with 28 AC are much much squishier than bears with 49 AC. yah .. massive AC tanks are only good if they stay on the ground to keep the critters busy while teh rest of the party climb trees or fly and do ranged attacks otherwise the baddies soon give up on teh ludicrous AC tank and go munch something else
Japangirl 01-18-07, 06:46 PM	Ah well. The bear with AC also is a grapple monster. So at least then I can go have fun! (Pinned planetar + wounding weapon = fun for the rogue!)
_m_ 01-18-07, 07:17 PM	idealy, you want your main tank's ac to be high enough that the primary attack hits her, and all the rest miss. that way she should take a survivable amount of damage, without getting wailed on, but the baddy shouldnt get bored enough to go eat somethign else.
GorTeX 01-18-07, 08:04 PM	Dwf Ftr 7/ Battlesmith 5 15/13/16/13/8/6 +1 str +2 con stat bumbs Why go battlesmith if your wisdom mod is -1 (missing out on the +wisdom to damge ability)
cetiken 01-19-07, 12:53 AM	Why go battlesmith if your wisdom mod is -1 (missing out on the +wisdom to damge ability) True but you're getting +2 sacred bonus to armor and the ability to craft arms and armor makes your gp/xp ratio much, much better. It'd be a viable (and probably more interesting) build to go straight fighter. Armor enchants would cost a lot but you wouldn't have to take endurance and could get a few more combat options with those fighter levels like improved unarmed strike + improved grapple and find room for improved trip too. All of which would be good things.
Some_call_me_Tim 01-19-07, 03:50 PM	The toughness feet is lame.Especially, thanks to WotC making Improved Toughness that doesn't require toughness. :confused: Also being immoble is annoying as a good tank needs to keep adjusting his position so as to be between the mosnters and the squishies.It takes a while to develop good tactics with Defensive Stance. Use it when you have the enemy cornered or you are in position to block them not matter how they maneuver. Even if you have to come out of defensive stance it isn't a deal breaker because you can exit it when you want and only suffer a -2 Strength penalty. As for having too high of AC, I have a dwarven defender with this problem. It is only a real problem if the judge meta-games too much. If he does as most of the judges here do, spending two or three rounds before giving up on trying to hit you, you still have the enemy tied up for a couple of rounds. I have no problem with the enemy looking for squishy targets but they have no way to tell if my AC is 20 (full plate and shield) or AC 40 (armor plus a cart load of bonuses) by just looking at me.
Iswald 01-20-07, 09:49 AM	That is not what the DMG says...it says to treat it as one category lighter for the purposes of Movement and Other Limitations. The FAQ basicly says to treat mithral full plate as medium armor. Except for the cost, it ends up being treated as medium armor for everything else.
GorTeX 01-21-07, 02:16 AM	The FAQ basicly says to treat mithral full plate as medium armor. Except for the cost, it ends up being treated as medium armor for everything else. yes, but even the FAQ admits that its interepetation is NOT what the DMG says--it's just a suggested way of ruling it (and a simple way at that)
Mommy was an Orc 01-21-07, 04:14 PM	AC has little effect against something with a +30 Attack..even on a 2 they hit a 32..so you'd need a 40+ AC (doable, yes, but not that common) to get it below 50% AC of 32 most certainly does have an effect on a +30 attack - most things with that level of attack also have Power Attack. Assuming the comparison is the Barbarian with the 18 AC and the thing with the +30 attack swings 5 times, has multiattack, and puts 14 points on Power Attack. That's an extra 70 hp of damage onto the Barbarian, that the AC 32 guy isn't taking. Same to-hit chance...