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Eaglerider [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kjenks
06-17-07, 12:17 PM Female halfling druid. Minimum weight: 27 lbs.

Eagle animal companion: MM rules say an eagle is a quadraped, and with Str 10, its light load is 33 lbs.

There's not much wiggle room for extra gear.

A sling, some bullets, a spell component pouch, peasant's clothing, a few scrolls -- what more does a halfling need?

Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14. She can have a +6 attack bonus with her sling, +7 if she selects Point Blank Shot.

There's not enough payload capacity for a saddle so she'll get a -5 on Ride checks for riding bareback. Strangely, saddles don't have a footnote saying that they weigh less for smaller characters.

Per DMG, page 204, a suitable mount must be "At least one size category larger than the rider." Eagles and halflings are both Small, so she'll take another -5 on Ride checks for having an ill-suited mount.

That -10 on Ride checks will be hard to deal with. If the rider takes damage, she must make a DC 5 Ride check to avoid falling off. This is normally not a big deal -- any skilled rider can make that check without rolling. But with a -10 penalty and some altitude, that gets to be an issue.

But she's flying at level 1!
jstorrie
06-17-07, 12:48 PM Something about creating an anorexic toddler halfling just so you can ride a small bird rubs me the wrong way.
kjenks
06-17-07, 01:16 PM Oh, I don't plan to actually play this character. I have enough LG druids. I'm just intrigued that it's barely possible.

The character wouldn't be extremely effective. Her sling could only inflict 1d3+Str damage, and halflings are not known for their big Str bonuses. But she would be relatively safe, flying a bit out of melee range. With a bit of luck, she could survive for a while and contribute a little damage most of the time. And what more can you expect out of a level 1 character?

A flying mount is great for a summoner. If she lives long enough, she could do pretty well in that role.
UMiskatonic
06-17-07, 03:47 PM You're better off dropping the sling, and casting produce flame.
Wraith235
06-17-07, 03:53 PM as sad as this is ..... I can see a couple players in the group I'm in doing this (I dont generally play divine casters)
kjenks
06-17-07, 04:20 PM Produce Flame is good for this gal at higher levels, but at level 1, she'd only get two level 1 spells per day and there are probably better choices.

The Traveler’s Mount spell would be good here for +20 ft. movement.

The eagle's normal movement...
10 ft. (2 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
...becomes...
20 ft. (4 squares), fly 100 ft. (average)

And she could share Lesser Vigor with her mount, too, if needed.
haferka
06-17-07, 06:56 PM A masterwork tool might help with that ride check..

" Masterwork reins/harness".. they wouldnt weigh much...
kjenks
06-17-07, 08:47 PM The Player's Handbook masterwork tool for Ride weighs only 1 lb. so it would work here, giving a +2 circumstance bonus. I picture this "tool" as boots, breeches, a crop, a martingale, spurs, gloves and chaps.

Riding straps (Races of Stone) weigh nothing but they cost too much for a starting character.

This build would have a Ride total of +10 at level 1 (4 ranks, +4 dex, +2 for that PH masterwork tool), and +13 at level 2 (1 more rank and Handle Animal synergy).

By level 3, this druid's eagle would advance, gaining +1 Str. This pushes the eagle's carrying capacity up from 33 lb. to 38 lb. so our 27-lb. druid would have a few more pounds to play around with.

Even so, saddles still weigh too much. The PH saddles don't have the footnote indicating that smaller saddles weigh less, and you'd need campaign documentation for any other kind of saddle. The Races of Stone Flyer's Saddle does have such a footnote, but it doesn't mention saddles for size-Small mounts.
Gargoyle117
06-17-07, 09:16 PM I don't have the MM handy, but is the Eagle a Medium sized creature? I believe to use a creature as a mount, it has to be at least one size category larger than the rider.
kjenks
06-17-07, 10:15 PM No, eagles are small. A "suitable" mount must be one size category larger (per the DMG rules). You can still ride an ill-suited mount, but you take a -5 penalty on Ride checks (per the PH rules).

That's half of the -10 penalty I mentioned.
haferka
06-17-07, 10:33 PM I dont have a PH in front of me.. and I can't find it in the SRD.. but I could have sworn there was a blanket weight/cost modifier for equipment... but allas.. I guess it was just refering to armor...

Another flaw with the 3.5 rules.. (why make exceptions for something this simple.. All they needed was a simple weight/gp modier for ALL equipment... (like they did for armor)..)
kjenks
06-17-07, 10:51 PM I can picture a character with the jockey mentality, that obsession with controlling weight by diet and exercise while maintaining strength and endurance. It would be fun to play this as a low-Charisma character who gets in the face of everybody who eats or offers food in a module. A diet Nazi who scolds people who don't "eat right."

By level 4, this druid would be riding her dire bat animal companion and the weight issues wouldn't matter any more. The cool thing is to be on a flying mount at level 1.

But when weight doesn't matter that much any more, it would be loads of fun to have her "let herself go" and gain weight like crazy, becoming a round little halfling.

As usual, deep halflings are better than surface-dwellers for most adventuring situations. Darkvision and stonecunning.
Dr.Cornelius
06-18-07, 02:58 AM Here's hoping that mod writers take notice of all the Dire Bat / Spirited Charge / Dual Lance cheese and decide to punish these high variance builds.

By high variance I mean - tactics that are overwhelmingly strong in one set of circumstances and extremely weak in others.

For example, the flying spirited charge delivers a ridiculous amount of damage in an open field fight, but change the conditions a bit and you end up with a Halfling struggling to put in 1d6. To be fair, these builds should also be hit with encounters that feature limited visibility and confined spaces to limit the charge opportunities and also area effects to knock out the mount.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for optimization, but some of these go too far.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if we could just do something about the flying enlarged invisible pouncing dire tigers...
kjenks
06-18-07, 07:33 AM That already happens, all the time. Most dungeon delves are really bad for mounted characters. Many indoor encounters have ceilings too low for flying over friends.

The way it works out: druids own the outdoors. And that ain't all bad.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 06-17-07, 12:17 PM	Female halfling druid. Minimum weight: 27 lbs. Eagle animal companion: MM rules say an eagle is a quadraped, and with Str 10, its light load is 33 lbs. There's not much wiggle room for extra gear. A sling, some bullets, a spell component pouch, peasant's clothing, a few scrolls -- what more does a halfling need? Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14. She can have a +6 attack bonus with her sling, +7 if she selects Point Blank Shot. There's not enough payload capacity for a saddle so she'll get a -5 on Ride checks for riding bareback. Strangely, saddles don't have a footnote saying that they weigh less for smaller characters. Per DMG, page 204, a suitable mount must be "At least one size category larger than the rider." Eagles and halflings are both Small, so she'll take another -5 on Ride checks for having an ill-suited mount. That -10 on Ride checks will be hard to deal with. If the rider takes damage, she must make a DC 5 Ride check to avoid falling off. This is normally not a big deal -- any skilled rider can make that check without rolling. But with a -10 penalty and some altitude, that gets to be an issue. But she's flying at level 1!
jstorrie 06-17-07, 12:48 PM	Something about creating an anorexic toddler halfling just so you can ride a small bird rubs me the wrong way.
kjenks 06-17-07, 01:16 PM	Oh, I don't plan to actually play this character. I have enough LG druids. I'm just intrigued that it's barely possible. The character wouldn't be extremely effective. Her sling could only inflict 1d3+Str damage, and halflings are not known for their big Str bonuses. But she would be relatively safe, flying a bit out of melee range. With a bit of luck, she could survive for a while and contribute a little damage most of the time. And what more can you expect out of a level 1 character? A flying mount is great for a summoner. If she lives long enough, she could do pretty well in that role.
UMiskatonic 06-17-07, 03:47 PM	You're better off dropping the sling, and casting produce flame.
Wraith235 06-17-07, 03:53 PM	as sad as this is ..... I can see a couple players in the group I'm in doing this (I dont generally play divine casters)
kjenks 06-17-07, 04:20 PM	Produce Flame is good for this gal at higher levels, but at level 1, she'd only get two level 1 spells per day and there are probably better choices. The Traveler’s Mount spell would be good here for +20 ft. movement. The eagle's normal movement... 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 80 ft. (average) ...becomes... 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 100 ft. (average) And she could share Lesser Vigor with her mount, too, if needed.
haferka 06-17-07, 06:56 PM	A masterwork tool might help with that ride check.. " Masterwork reins/harness".. they wouldnt weigh much...
kjenks 06-17-07, 08:47 PM	The Player's Handbook masterwork tool for Ride weighs only 1 lb. so it would work here, giving a +2 circumstance bonus. I picture this "tool" as boots, breeches, a crop, a martingale, spurs, gloves and chaps. Riding straps (Races of Stone) weigh nothing but they cost too much for a starting character. This build would have a Ride total of +10 at level 1 (4 ranks, +4 dex, +2 for that PH masterwork tool), and +13 at level 2 (1 more rank and Handle Animal synergy). By level 3, this druid's eagle would advance, gaining +1 Str. This pushes the eagle's carrying capacity up from 33 lb. to 38 lb. so our 27-lb. druid would have a few more pounds to play around with. Even so, saddles still weigh too much. The PH saddles don't have the footnote indicating that smaller saddles weigh less, and you'd need campaign documentation for any other kind of saddle. The Races of Stone Flyer's Saddle does have such a footnote, but it doesn't mention saddles for size-Small mounts.
Gargoyle117 06-17-07, 09:16 PM	I don't have the MM handy, but is the Eagle a Medium sized creature? I believe to use a creature as a mount, it has to be at least one size category larger than the rider.
kjenks 06-17-07, 10:15 PM	No, eagles are small. A "suitable" mount must be one size category larger (per the DMG rules). You can still ride an ill-suited mount, but you take a -5 penalty on Ride checks (per the PH rules). That's half of the -10 penalty I mentioned.
haferka 06-17-07, 10:33 PM	I dont have a PH in front of me.. and I can't find it in the SRD.. but I could have sworn there was a blanket weight/cost modifier for equipment... but allas.. I guess it was just refering to armor... Another flaw with the 3.5 rules.. (why make exceptions for something this simple.. All they needed was a simple weight/gp modier for ALL equipment... (like they did for armor)..)
kjenks 06-17-07, 10:51 PM	I can picture a character with the jockey mentality, that obsession with controlling weight by diet and exercise while maintaining strength and endurance. It would be fun to play this as a low-Charisma character who gets in the face of everybody who eats or offers food in a module. A diet Nazi who scolds people who don't "eat right." By level 4, this druid would be riding her dire bat animal companion and the weight issues wouldn't matter any more. The cool thing is to be on a flying mount at level 1. But when weight doesn't matter that much any more, it would be loads of fun to have her "let herself go" and gain weight like crazy, becoming a round little halfling. As usual, deep halflings are better than surface-dwellers for most adventuring situations. Darkvision and stonecunning.
Dr.Cornelius 06-18-07, 02:58 AM	Here's hoping that mod writers take notice of all the Dire Bat / Spirited Charge / Dual Lance cheese and decide to punish these high variance builds. By high variance I mean - tactics that are overwhelmingly strong in one set of circumstances and extremely weak in others. For example, the flying spirited charge delivers a ridiculous amount of damage in an open field fight, but change the conditions a bit and you end up with a Halfling struggling to put in 1d6. To be fair, these builds should also be hit with encounters that feature limited visibility and confined spaces to limit the charge opportunities and also area effects to knock out the mount. Don't get me wrong - I am all for optimization, but some of these go too far. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now if we could just do something about the flying enlarged invisible pouncing dire tigers...
kjenks 06-18-07, 07:33 AM	That already happens, all the time. Most dungeon delves are really bad for mounted characters. Many indoor encounters have ceilings too low for flying over friends. The way it works out: druids own the outdoors. And that ain't all bad.