Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TetsujinOni 01-11-08, 05:02 PM	So, I decided that with the upcoming end of the campaign, a tank cohort for my Imperial Military Academy wizard was going to be a good thing. Since I've been faithfully served by my hawk, Frightful, having an enhanced leadership score would also be useful. Thus, Sasselek took up the path shown by the Cudgel, following Daffyd into the world. The question is, **now what**, as his principle just hit wiz5/moa2/rua1 (+1 cha, -2 familiar, +2 favor, +1 favor, leadership score 10) Sasselek, male lizardfolk M humanoid(reptilian) Str 17 Dex 13 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 8 1/ Lizardfolk Power Attack 2/ Lizardfolk 3/ Fighter 1 Exotic Armor Proficiency (Battle Plate) Weapon Focus (Greatsword) 4/ Fighter 2 Quickdraw Gear is tied up as a few alchemicals, masterwork battle plate, and a decent golfbag (longspear, mwk cold iron heavy flail, mwk greatsword, silver heavy pick, strength longbow) Thoughts on where to go next, since Fighter 3 seems uninspired? He already takes half/half for being a cohort, so there's no loss to multiclass penalties, right? For a tanky cohort for a wizard, where should he go next? If he isn't going to suffer for it, Bbn 1-2 and Rage seem natural mechanically(Daffyd and Sasselek are both NG followers of St. Cuthbert). Druid seems like a potential considered choice, but self-buffing doesn't seem great on Druid. Ranger for Track and skills to supplement his principle is also obvious, but doesn't seem to go much of anywhere...
JamesMaissen 01-12-08, 12:59 AM	So, I decided that with the upcoming end of the campaign, a tank cohort for my Imperial Military Academy wizard was going to be a good thing. Sasselek, male lizardfolk M humanoid(reptilian) Str 17 Dex 13 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 8 1/ Lizardfolk Power Attack 2/ Lizardfolk 3/ Fighter 1 Exotic Armor Proficiency (Battle Plate) Weapon Focus (Greatsword) 4/ Fighter 2 Quickdraw Well first of all Lizardfolk have a +1 Level Adjustment so the above is a 5th level character requiring (at least) a 7th level leader. So assuming that you're 6th (as the title suggests) he would only have 3 levels. That said.. why take Battle Plate? Likewise figure out what role is missing with the normal tables that you tend to have. I would suggest that you consider more of a tank role than damage dealer. Something like Lizardfolk2/Fighter1 STR 14 INT 13 WIS 10 DEX 13 CON 16 CHA 8 (or swap STR and CON) with feats: Combat Expertiese, Shield Expert and Shield Ward. -James
copperwyrmling 01-12-08, 03:45 PM	as his principle just hit wiz5/moa2/rua1 (+1 cha, -2 familiar, +2 favor, +1 favor, leadership score 10) Well first of all Lizardfolk have a +1 Level Adjustment so the above is a 5th level character requiring (at least) a 7th level leader. So assuming that you're 6th (as the title suggests) he would only have 3 levels. It looks like the main PC just hit L8, so he can have a L6 cohort. I think he's done it correctly.
Jay_Ibero_911 01-12-08, 05:09 PM	Well first of all Lizardfolk have a +1 Level Adjustment so the above is a 5th level character requiring (at least) a 7th level leader. So assuming that you're 6th (as the title suggests) he would only have 3 levels. That said.. why take Battle Plate? Likewise figure out what role is missing with the normal tables that you tend to have. I would suggest that you consider more of a tank role than damage dealer. Something like Lizardfolk2/Fighter1 STR 14 INT 13 WIS 10 DEX 13 CON 16 CHA 8 (or swap STR and CON) with feats: Combat Expertiese, Shield Expert and Shield Ward. -James That's an interesting twist on him indeed. Though according to the TC, his character is 8th (wiz5/moa2/rua1), so he gets an ecl 6 lizardfolk cohort, so 2hd and 3 class levels... Race:Lizardfolk Alignment: STR-12 +2 DEX-10 CON-14 +2 INT-15 -2 WIS-13 CHA-8 Lv1(Lizardfolk)Combat Awareness Lv2(Lizardfolk) Lv3(Fighter)Shield Specialization, Shield Ward Lv4(Fighter)Combat Stability, +1 Stat Lv5(Fighter) Lv6(Fighter)Improved Natural Armor, Combat Expertise* Lv7(Fighter) Lv8(Fighter)Heavy Armor Optimization*, +1 Stat Lv9(Fighter)Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, retrain to Improved Natural Armor at 12th Lv10(Fighter)Combat Vigor* Lv11(Fighter) Lv12(Fighter)Improved Natural Armor, Greater Heavy Armor Optimization*, +1 Stat Lv13() Use heavy shield and heavy plate as his armor (heaviest non-exotic armor, races of stone), shield ward and combat stability make him as difficult to move as he is to hit, combat vigor gives him a little self recovery...the only real issue he has is his crap will/reflex saves, crap touch ac (improved somewhat with combat expertise and shield ward), and inability to do anything significant in combat other than stand in the way...
UMiskatonic 01-13-08, 11:02 AM	He's a cohort, he's SUPPOSED to stand in the way. The thing that he does in combat is protect the wizard. It's the wizard's job, therefore, to do something great. And yes, maybe this guy has weak saves, but I'll guess his wizard buddy is willing to help out with a magic circle or a greater magic weapon or something to make his life a bit easier. And finally, I agree with James. wasting a feat on armor is a terrible move. This lizardman will have far fewer feats than a straight fighter of your APL, you have to make them count. Try to use other resources first, like spells or gold, to make him a better defender.
bitznarf 01-13-08, 12:41 PM	But in order to make 'standing in the way' effective, he has to have some way of drawing attacks too.
Jay_Ibero_911 01-13-08, 01:29 PM	But in order to make 'standing in the way' effective, he has to have some way of drawing attacks too. Exactly...if he can't do any significant damage or or some other tactically hindering thing, then the bad guys are just gonna ignore him. Though if you want to make it harder for the bad guys to get by him, you could give him 3 levels of knight and a reach weapon...he conveniently always threatens adjacent squares with his bite, so no need for spiked chain. With Bulwark of Defense the baddies will have a much harder time getting away from him once he gets in their face. So perhaps something along these lines... Race:Lizardfolk Alignment: STR-14 +2 DEX-12 CON-13 +2 INT-15 -2 WIS-10 CHA-8 Lv1(Lizardfolk)Combat Expertise Lv2(Lizardfolk) Lv3(Knight)Improved Disarm Lv4(Knight)Mounted Combat, +1 CON Lv5(Knight) Lv6(Fighter)Power Attack, Improved Buckler Defense Lv7(Fighter)Weapon Focus (Ranseur) Lv8(Fighter)+1 STR Lv9(Fighter)Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery Lv10(Fighter) Lv11(Fighter)Shield Specialization* Lv12(Fighter)Shield Ward, +1 STR Lv13(Fighter)Feat* He's still got good AC as long as you slap full plate on him, and improved buckler defense lets him use the knight's shield block ability while wielding a two handed weapon. Bulwark of Defense makes it significantly harder for baddies to move away from him, and against weapon using enemies he can reliably disarm them. His damage, while not amazing, should be OK between power attack and the weapon feats at least. His will save will be a little better from the knight levels as well. Just another possibility, assuming a lawful cohort doesn't mess things up for you...
RtrnofdMax 01-14-08, 02:43 PM	He's still got good AC as long as you slap full plate on him, and improved buckler defense lets him use the knight's shield block ability while wielding a two handed weapon. Only if it's been solved once and for all that you can maintain your buckler AC while using a two-handed weapons through that feat. CustServ told me no. Only while dual-wielding with a weapon in your off-hand.
Jay_Ibero_911 01-14-08, 03:30 PM	Only if it's been solved once and for all that you can maintain your buckler AC while using a two-handed weapons through that feat. CustServ told me no. Only while dual-wielding with a weapon in your off-hand. The wording is pretty explicit to the point where either the feat works with 2 handed weapons or is not needed to begin with. Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round. You can’t bash someone with a buckler. Improved Buckler Defense [General] Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency. Benefit: When you attack with a weapon in your off hand, you may still apply your buckler's shield bonus to your armor class. Normal: Without this feat, a character wielding a buckler who attacks with an off-hand weapon loses the buckler's shield bonus to AC until his or her next turn. Special: A fighter may select improved buckler defense as one of his fighter bonus feats. So using a two handed weapon either counts as making an attack with a weapon in your off hand and thus works with Improved Buckler Defense or it doesn't in which case improved Improved Buckler Defense is not even required to keep your shield bonus. I thought this had been hashed out long ago.....Of course you could just as easily take improved natural armor multiple times and forget about using a shield too....
NotLestat 01-19-08, 05:09 PM	Call me crazy, I was under the impression that a cohort from Leadership was supposed to be a identical to a legal character, so doesn't that mean no access to Lizardmen? If I'm wrong, it's time to seriously reconsider taking Leadership. LGCS 7.5: Cohorts are designed and restricted exactly like LG PCs, with the following exceptions: Ability Scores: Unless specified otherwise, cohorts use the elite array for ability scores. Level: Your cohort starts at the maximum level allowable based on the rules in the DMG 106. He begins play with the minimum XP possible for his level. Gold: Use Table 4-23: NPC Gear Value in the DMG 127 to determine your cohort’s starting GP. Feats: Cohorts may not take or use Leadership or magic item creation feats. Equipment: Your cohort shares your item access. Cohorts cannot have more than 10% of their total wealth in consumable items. Region: Your cohort must have the same home region as your PC at all times.
JamesMaissen 01-19-08, 05:16 PM	Call me crazy, I was under the impression that a cohort from Leadership was supposed to be a identical to a legal character, so doesn't that mean no access to Lizardmen? You're crazy! (sorry couldn't resist). Actually I would assume that the original poster received special access to be able to take a lizardman as a cohort. -James
NotLestat 01-20-08, 03:17 AM	You're crazy! (sorry couldn't resist). Actually I would assume that the original poster received special access to be able to take a lizardman as a cohort. -James Can I get some confirmation of that? I am otherwise right then?
magebeast 01-20-08, 03:32 AM	Can I get some confirmation of that? I am otherwise right then? Barring specific access, you are correct. For instance, in a year 4 mod, Red Tide, it was possible to get access to a Dakon cohort.
TetsujinOni 01-20-08, 10:23 AM	You're crazy! (sorry couldn't resist). Actually I would assume that the original poster received special access to be able to take a lizardman as a cohort. -James Quite so. The lizardfolk cohort was taken because the favor which granted it also granted a +2 leadership score, which handily offsets the leadership score penalty for not giving up my hawk familiar. I've since gotten another +1 leadership from a battle interactive... So at 6 when I took the cohort (need tanks badly, too many bad bard builds around me in the near-baby-level game, having a steadily usable target for enlarge person is a good thing)... All that said, despite the newfound goodwill of the people of the Empire of Keoland, Sasselek does take a lot of getting used to for the common folk of the Flanaess... What are there rules for changing out a cohort?