Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UMiskatonic 01-03-07, 04:27 PM	Hey all, My Bright Sands sorceror is going to become an elemental savant (fire). I was hoping for some input on spell selection at the higher levels; list is from memory so please forgive mistakes. 3rd level spells: Fireball, fly, haste, dispel magic, (empowered magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, lesser fire orb too) Fireball first because, well, it's fireball. Also, it's concievable that I'll need it 4 rounds in a row. I think I can get by with a few scrolls of fly until I hit 7th level. I'm attached to haste, and 'speed of flame' is a decent RP reason to take it. Dispel magic isn't terribly flamey, and by the time I get it, it's about to be surpassed by greater dispel magic. 4th level spells: Wall of ice (ash), dimension door, parboil, enervation (emp. scorching ray, emp. false life) I need a battlefield control spell at some point. Wall of Ice got the nod for the variety of shapes, and because it's solid. Orb of fire is ok, but Empowered scorching ray is almost the same exact spell, and I've got the empowered lesser fire orb already. Can't beat dim. door, should it be first? Parboil is my anti-wizard spell, and should be great vs. stupid critters too. It's also my fort save spell. 5th level spells: Arc of Lightning, Imp. Blink, (empowered fireball), ???? Arc of Lightning is a handier shape than cone of cold, my cones always seem to catch a party member unless I'm way in front of the group, which isn't all that safe. Also, it's SR = no. Imp. Blink is such a great defense. But what else? Is true seeing worthwhile? Teleport? 6th level: No real order here. (emp. parboil) Contenders include acid fog, disintegrate, and possibly contingency. Advice is welcome.
Japangirl 01-03-07, 06:55 PM	Get teleport. If for no other reason than to save your party from a TPK by going . . . not here.
copper_wyrmling 01-03-07, 07:05 PM	5th level spells: Arc of Lightning, Imp. Blink, (empowered fireball), ???? Arc of Lightning is a handier shape than cone of cold, my cones always seem to catch a party member unless I'm way in front of the group, which isn't all that safe. Also, it's SR = no. Imp. Blink is such a great defense. But what else? Is true seeing worthwhile? Teleport? I've found teleport very worthwhile on my sorc; I wouldn't take both teleport and d-door though. Wall of Force and Mass Fly are popular at L5, and Telekinesis can be very cool (it would give you some direct damage that's not energy typed and thus doesn't get converted to fire - not sure how important that is to you).
UMiskatonic 01-03-07, 08:04 PM	Non-fire damage is important. That's why I'll have magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, enervation, and searing spell. As far as the transportation spells, I don't feel like I really need fly and dim door and teleport. There's also mass fly and overland flight, which could be useful. But how do I narrow it down?
CrystalBlue 01-04-07, 08:48 AM	I've found with sorcerers and other finger wigglers, the first job is protecting yourself. Esspecially if you're going to be the mobile artilary of the group. I'd go with Fly and Dim Door more then the group stuff. If a party needs that, that's what a wizard is there for. Sorcerers are nice and handy to have, but they are going to be specilized. And if they are mostly direct damage, such as elemental savants, they should focus on optimizing themselves rather then getting spells to help the party. It's handy when it happens, but you'll get more use out of Dim Door and Fly, IMO.
UMiskatonic 01-04-07, 10:27 AM	Good, I'm glad to hear you say that, it confirms the feeling that I had in my gut. Fly-In Dimension Door-In Teleport-out Of course, that leaves me with a bit more space among the 5th level spells, and only a year to figure out what to choose ;)
_m_ 01-08-07, 12:06 AM	Get teleport. If for no other reason than to save your party from a TPK by going . . . not here. thats 1 of the best lines i've seen in... a while :D not here *grin* does any1 have a copy of that flamethrower quote? i can't remember the exact wording, but it seems appropriate for a fire savant thread. oh, and get ottos resiliant sphere 4 sure.
copper_wyrmling 01-08-07, 12:29 AM	does any1 have a copy of that flamethrower quote? i can't remember the exact wording, but it seems appropriate for a fire savant thread. oh, and get ottos resiliant sphere 4 sure. Do you mean, "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness"? (Carpe Jugulum, by Terry Pratchett) That's the phrase I use to describe my sacred exorcist of Joramy ;)
_m_ 01-08-07, 12:37 AM	Do you mean, "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness"? (Carpe Jugulum, by Terry Pratchett) That's the phrase I use to describe my sacred exorcist of Joramy ;) nar, it was something along the lines of: the existence of flamethrowers holds that, at some stage, someone thought: I want to set that thing alight, but that thing is too far away.
copper_wyrmling 01-08-07, 12:38 AM	nar, it was something along the lines of: the existence of flamethrowers holds that, at some stage, someone thought: I want to set that thing alight, but that thing is too far away. That's also a good one :)
_m_ 01-08-07, 12:41 AM	That's also a good one :) i thought so.
Jay_Ibero_911 01-10-07, 10:51 AM	I believe you are thinking of a quote from the "Some Like it Hot" segment from George Carlin's "Napalm and Silly Putty": Think for a moment about flamethrowers. The fact that we have them at all...My point is that there are even such things as flamethrowers in the first place. What it indicates to me is that at some point, some person, Phil perhaps, said to himself, "Look at all those people accross the road. What I wouldn't give to set them on fire. But I'm much to far away. If only I had some device that would shoot flames on them."
_m_ 01-10-07, 06:59 PM	I believe you are thinking of a quote from the "Some Like it Hot" segment from George Carlin's "Napalm and Silly Putty": Think for a moment about flamethrowers. The fact that we have them at all...My point is that there are even such things as flamethrowers in the first place. What it indicates to me is that at some point, some person, Phil perhaps, said to himself, "Look at all those people accross the road. What I wouldn't give to set them on fire. But I'm much to far away. If only I had some device that would shoot flames on them." rofl. pure and simple.
jhorred 01-11-07, 12:41 AM	I have a similiar character, Brightsands Evoker, with energy sbu fire and searing spell. Parboil rocks... 5th level..(only one more level :dancin:) My first spell will be Greater Fire Burst (d10 per caster level :devil:). But my wizard's crazy enough to get close enough to use it. Arc of Lightning is cool. I probably won't take Cone of Cold either since I already have 2 other cone spells (Blast of Fire and Blast of Sand)
UMiskatonic 01-11-07, 10:56 AM	I already have 2 other cone spells (Blast of Fire and Blast of Sand) How do you keep your allies out of the cone? Or do you not worry about that?
_m_ 01-11-07, 05:03 PM	How do you keep your allies out of the cone? Or do you not worry about that? easy. you stand at the front ac ftw
clannagh 01-11-07, 06:04 PM	easy. you stand at the front ac ftw easy for the old alvin :) what about the new one that got all its buff stats sucked up by shadows though ? I suppose yo could just take the minus 20 and still hide for +stupid providing you had a rock to stand behind
_m_ 01-11-07, 09:07 PM	easy for the old alvin :) what about the new one that got all its buff stats sucked up by shadows though ? I suppose yo could just take the minus 20 and still hide for +stupid providing you had a rock to stand behind hide in plane sight... i need no rock. besides, my pet monkey can tank for me.
cycloptic_squirrel 01-11-07, 09:43 PM	i need no rock. I do not follow. Everybody needs rock. Good old rock. Nothing beats rock.
_m_ 01-11-07, 09:49 PM	I do not follow. Everybody needs rock. Good old rock. Nothing beats rock. wow. that fully freaked my out. i use that line ALL the time. interestingly, and on a completely unrelated note... i walwasy loose at scisors paper rock. wierd...
jhorred 01-11-07, 11:24 PM	How do you keep your allies out of the cone? Or do you not worry about that? I stand near the front. I don't always get them off, but if you move to one side of the melee guys usually I can get most if not all the bad guys. My wizard complains that he can't see if he's not in the front half of the party. (He's a dwarf.) I played down at the special last year at Gencon with him and I ended tanking because I had the most HP in the party....
_m_ 01-14-07, 05:35 PM	I stand near the front. I don't always get them off, but if you move to one side of the melee guys usually I can get most if not all the bad guys. My wizard complains that he can't see if he's not in the front half of the party. (He's a dwarf.) I played down at the special last year at Gencon with him and I ended tanking because I had the most HP in the party.... that happens surprisingly often. our area dosent have a tank (they all died) so a wizard tanks for us fairly often.
Lomiat 01-15-07, 08:18 PM	Good, I'm glad to hear you say that, it confirms the feeling that I had in my gut. Fly-In Dimension Door-In Teleport-out Of course, that leaves me with a bit more space among the 5th level spells, and only a year to figure out what to choose ;) I recommend you hold off of Fly until you get Overland Flight. Or take Fly, but swap it when you can take the 5th-level version. Dim Door will beat Teleport for a sorceror, simply because you can use it more often, and it doesn't compete with Empowered Fireball. For a boom sorceror I'm building (but headed toward Born of the Three Thunders), I planned to let Fireball (or the electric variant) do the brunt of his damage until he could get Cone of Cold. You don't miss out on the extra d6s until 10th level, which is conveniently when you can get the Cone of Cold. If you plan that way, then you can consider that all your other spells can do that utility stuff: Dim Door, Glitterdust, See Invis, etc.
Lomiat 01-15-07, 08:20 PM	that happens surprisingly often. our area dosent have a tank (they all died) so a wizard tanks for us fairly often. Silly dead fighters. They probably all saw some big monsters and charged. Really, that's quite funny when you think about it... The most insidious thing an LG author could do is leave a big, BIG, FAT, OPEN charge lane, right up to the Combat Expertise, Improved Grab, Rake for 300 hps of damage power-attacking behemoth of 40 AC (so forget your Close Quarters Combat). Now, I just have to come up with the story...
clannagh 01-15-07, 10:39 PM	Silly dead fighters. They probably all saw some big monsters and charged. Really, that's quite funny when you think about it... The most insidious thing an LG author could do is leave a big, BIG, FAT, OPEN charge lane, right up to the Combat Expertise, Improved Grab, Rake for 300 hps of damage power-attacking behemoth of 40 AC (so forget your Close Quarters Combat). Now, I just have to come up with the story... add combat reflexes and I have played that mod :)
Lomiat 01-15-07, 10:41 PM	add combat reflexes and I have played that mod :) Yeah, I was tired. I meant Combat Reflexes, not Combat Expertise. Who cares if the thing tearing you into 1000 little shreds of adventurer jerky is doing so with any particular expertise? The fact that it's happening is generally bad enough...
Lomiat 01-15-07, 10:48 PM	...and for what it's worth, I think I've played that mod, too. Though I played it with my wizard AFTER he'd gained access to Ray of Stupidity and BEFORE it was banned... The combat in a nutshell: 1) We spot a big, big, scary creature. 2) My wizard tells everyone else to hang back; he's got this one. 3) Most characters scoff, but fall back, waiting (and probably hoping) to see the gray elf torn into many itsy bits. 4) The wildrunner rolls initiative and charges. 5) Mayhem and death as the wildrunner's charge is interrupted well before he gets close enough to swing his sword. He is lifted 30 feet off the ground. He is grappled, raked, shredded, the monster adds seasoning, resumes munching. 6) Cleric gets a Delay Death in there somewhere. 7) Now that the wildrunner's no longer in a grapple since he's unconscious and only magically alive, my wizard drops the beast with one little ray. 8) Epilogue: The wildrunner gets the "Coke can" rule. Never charge anything larger than a Coke can (which, I believe, was really more of an equal to or greater than "larger")(see: Coke cans--placed on a battlemat--occupy roughly 9 squares = Huge). So.... Um... staying on topic. Fireball, haste, heroism, dim door, benign transposition (if you can get it), and uh.... Here's a toast to Ray of Stupidity! It was broken while it lasted!
UMiskatonic 01-16-07, 12:42 PM	Ok then, I'm taking fly, and then I'll drop it for overland flight later. I'll also take dimension door, and not worry about teleportation magic. Between fireball, arc of lightning, and parboil, I should be okay on damage dealing.
jhorred 01-17-07, 12:01 AM	Silly dead fighters. They probably all saw some big monsters and charged. Really, that's quite funny when you think about it... The most insidious thing an LG author could do is leave a big, BIG, FAT, OPEN charge lane, right up to the Combat Expertise, Improved Grab, Rake for 300 hps of damage power-attacking behemoth of 40 AC (so forget your Close Quarters Combat). Now, I just have to come up with the story... yeah.... That's when my fighter lobs javelins at it until it charges me, then it gets bad for him .....
copper_wyrmling 01-18-07, 02:08 AM	I recommend you hold off of Fly until you get Overland Flight. Or take Fly, but swap it when you can take the 5th-level version. Dim Door will beat Teleport for a sorceror, simply because you can use it more often, and it doesn't compete with Empowered Fireball. Just remember that Fly can be cast on other people, while Overland Flight can only be cast on yourself. Since you will tend to have far better ranged attacks than most people in the party, if you're fighting flying bad guys you would probably prefer to make the melee specialist fly. For this reason, if I was taking a L5 flight spell I'd take Mass Fly rather than Overland Flight. And I like Teleport better than D-Door, because Teleport doesn't have the annoying feature that you can't act after using it (so you can teleport and cast a swift-action spell), and because it also lets you beat module deadlines, go back to town to pick up useful items / information, get the party out of a TPK-in-progress, etc. Teleport competes with empowered fireball, but D-Door competes with empowered scorching ray, and I actually use the latter more often ('cause 18d6 to one target with no save is usually better than 15d6 to an area with saves for half, unless you have lots of weak enemies - focusing fire is a good idea). I think you'll be fine taking D-Door rather than Teleport though, it's not a critical decision so long as you have one of them, I just thought I'd present some arguments for the other side ;)
_m_ 01-18-07, 06:57 PM	Just remember that Fly can be cast on other people, while Overland Flight can only be cast on yourself. Since you will tend to have far better ranged attacks than most people in the party, if you're fighting flying bad guys you would probably prefer to make the melee specialist fly. For this reason, if I was taking a L5 flight spell I'd take Mass Fly rather than Overland Flight. And I like Teleport better than D-Door, because Teleport doesn't have the annoying feature that you can't act after using it (so you can teleport and cast a swift-action spell), and because it also lets you beat module deadlines, go back to town to pick up useful items / information, get the party out of a TPK-in-progress, etc. Teleport competes with empowered fireball, but D-Door competes with empowered scorching ray, and I actually use the latter more often ('cause 18d6 to one target with no save is usually better than 15d6 to an area with saves for half, unless you have lots of weak enemies - focusing fire is a good idea). I think you'll be fine taking D-Door rather than Teleport though, it's not a critical decision so long as you have one of them, I just thought I'd present some arguments for the other side ;) just for a reference point, no spell have saved my life more than d-door. however, the 1 time i DID need teleport, it would have been a permadeath if i didnt have it...
UMiskatonic 01-18-07, 09:44 PM	You know, I think it will be fireball at 6th level, followed quickly by fly at 7th. It looks like Dim. Door will be the 8th level spell, and I'll have a level or two to play through before I make the rest of my decisions. I suspect I'll swap fly for mass fly when I can, and grab a new 3rd level spell. There's a lot of those that useful. Thanks for all the help.
viceregal 01-18-07, 11:28 PM	How do the non-bright sands (ie no searing spell metamagic) or whatever the feat is that does the same for cold spells (which I am not sure if anyone has access to anyway) deal with the limitation to their element vs critters immune/resistant to said element - do they just have enough options to cover damaging with out it or .....? Warren
UMiskatonic 01-19-07, 11:20 AM	You know, I think the answer is: they deal very poorly. I feel that searing spell (or eq.) is the key to the build. Without it, elemental savant has a HUGE weak spot that a regular sorceror would not have. I'm not sure why you would make yourself weaker....
trollbill 01-19-07, 12:39 PM	I've noticed one thing with my LG Sorcerer. The moment I kick off a spell, I become public enemy number one. Every monster on the table is drawn to me like I just activated a monster magnet...even if the spell failed to do anything. Thank Bahamut I have False Life. My first 3rd level spell was Haste as it is a universally useful spell. But Fly was absolutely my second. At least the none flying tanks can't converge on me now. I will probably go with Dispel Magic for my third. I don't really need Fireball since I have a 30' cone breath weapon.
Japangirl 01-19-07, 12:44 PM	I've noticed one thing with my LG Sorcerer. The moment I kick off a spell, I become public enemy number one. Every monster on the table is drawn to me like I just activated a monster magnet...even if the spell failed to do anything. Thank Bahamut I have False Life. My first 3rd level spell was Haste as it is a universally useful spell. But Fly was absolutely my second. At least the none flying tanks can't converge on me now. I will probably go with Dispel Magic for my third. I don't really need Fireball since I have a 30' cone breath weapon. Really? My wizard doesn't tend to attract a lot of attention, and her spells are successful more often than not . . . On the other hand, the rogue gets all sorts of negative attention the first time she smacks someone in the kidneys for 1d3 + 6d6 + 1 + 1 Con damage. Stupid monsters hit too hard at APL 14.
trollbill 01-19-07, 12:55 PM	Really? My wizard doesn't tend to attract a lot of attention, and her spells are successful more often than not . . . Well, my spells don't fail very often either, but I do recall using my Draconic Breath on 6 monks when I was 6th level. 6d6 cold damage, reflex save DC 16. I didn't hurt a one of them, but all but 1 jumped me on their inititiative. And again, thank Bahamut for False Life...and Not This Time. Actually, I think part of the problem is that everyone recognizes I am a pretty compatent player, so whenever the DMs want to pick on someone, they usually choose me because they know I can handle it. I suppose in a way you could say they are complementing me. I'll still whine about it, though. :D On the other hand, the rogue gets all sorts of negative attention the first time she smacks someone in the kidneys for 1d3 + 6d6 + 1 + 1 Con damage. Stupid monsters hit too hard at APL 14. Con damage gets everyone's attention.
UMiskatonic 01-19-07, 01:35 PM	Well, as a player, I go after the guy who can kill me in two rounds, not the guy who will eventually shoot me apart in ten. The archer is second on the list. Smart opponents will do the same. If you want to be overlooked, work in support staff. Lightning bolt draws attention to the caster. Stoneskin, on the other hand, draws attention to the fighter you cast it on. Or just be less effective. I bet a flaming sphere won't attract the same kind of attention.
awroe 01-19-07, 05:28 PM	Or just be less effective. I bet a flaming sphere won't attract the same kind of attention. :) Now if only the whole party would follow that advice, no one would bother you at all...
awroe 01-19-07, 05:32 PM	How do the non-bright sands (ie no searing spell metamagic) or whatever the feat is that does the same for cold spells (which I am not sure if anyone has access to anyway) deal with the limitation to their element vs critters immune/resistant to said element - do they just have enough options to cover damaging with out it or .....? Warren By making sure to pick enough non-elemental effects (force or crowd control)? It would work with a wizard - don't know if a sorcerer gets enough spell picks.
UMiskatonic 01-20-07, 11:51 AM	I think that will fail with a sorceror. You thin out your already thin spell selection, and you'll be left with only a handful of elemental spells. If that's the case, elemental savant doesn't really help you
Lupo 01-20-07, 12:52 PM	I think that will fail with a sorceror. You thin out your already thin spell selection, and you'll be left with only a handful of elemental spells. If that's the case, elemental savant doesn't really help you elemental savants have a serious problem, and being a sorcerer as a start does aggravate the problem further. to me the prestige class is a booby-trap, giving up three out of four elemental types is a severe hindrance, at least they should have given the class "energy substitution" as a bonus feat, instead of making it a prerequisite . . . . and a sorcerer has to few spells known to make up the lacking elements with sonic and force effect unless he gives up a lot of his "utility spells". compare it to the "argent savant", ok, higher level prerequisite but no feat prerequisites, and less hindrance. and the force spells are much more useful, having "shield", "mage armor", "magic missile" and "tenser's floating disk" for first level, "orb of force" or "blast of force" at second level, "leomund's tiny hut" at third and the fifth level is either "bigby's interposing hand" or "wall of force" ciao martin m.
Zanzibax 02-26-07, 05:20 PM	Non-fire damage is important. That's why I'll have magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, enervation, and searing spell. As far as the transportation spells, I don't feel like I really need fly and dim door and teleport. There's also mass fly and overland flight, which could be useful. But how do I narrow it down? Could you do non-fire damage by taking an additional Energy Substitution feat?
Lupo 02-26-07, 05:33 PM	Could you do non-fire damage by taking an additional Energy Substitution feat? nope, "elemental savant" explicitly switches all your damage dealing energy (acid, cold, electricity and fire) spells to the chosen energy form. so even with another energy substitution, it would switch back to your energy type. ciao martin m. i think "argent savant" is the better choice of the two, but you loose a caster level right with your first level into the prestige class, instead of loosing it at level 5 as "elemental savant" does.
trollbill 02-27-07, 10:16 AM	There are, however, two feats that can greatly help out an Elemental Savant; Piercing Cold for Cold Elemental Savants and Searing Spell for Fire Elemental Savants. They are both NONC, but I have seen access to both of them.
Zanzibax 02-27-07, 03:32 PM	nope, "elemental savant" explicitly switches all your damage dealing energy (acid, cold, electricity and fire) spells to the chosen energy form. so even with another energy substitution, it would switch back to your energy type. ciao martin m. i think "argent savant" is the better choice of the two, but you loose a caster level right with your first level into the prestige class, instead of loosing it at level 5 as "elemental savant" does. Are you sure? I found this with a little effort: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20020609 Energy Substitution and Energy Admixture feats are chosen for the boss fighter...indicating that you can cast spells with different energy types. Otherwise, WotC wasted a feat in creating this monster.
copper_wyrmling 02-27-07, 03:53 PM	Are you sure? I found this with a little effort: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20020609 Energy Substitution and Energy Admixture feats are chosen for the boss fighter...indicating that you can cast spells with different energy types. Otherwise, WotC wasted a feat in creating this monster. Yes, but you need energy substitution to qualify for elemental savant (if I remember correctly), and energy admixture can be applied to add the same energy type as the base spell - it just doubles the damage in that case.
Zanzibax 02-27-07, 03:56 PM	Yes, but you need energy substitution to qualify for elemental savant (if I remember correctly), and energy admixture can be applied to add the same energy type as the base spell - it just doubles the damage in that case. Holy crap! But then Energy Admixture would do that for any other class. :rolleyes:
UMiskatonic 02-27-07, 04:54 PM	Yeah, that's how energy admixture works. Part of being a savant is that ALL energy type spells get converted to your specialty element.
Zanzibax 02-27-07, 05:18 PM	Yeah, that's how energy admixture works. Part of being a savant is that ALL energy type spells get converted to your specialty element. That sucks a lot of it's punch out.
Lupo 02-27-07, 05:56 PM	That sucks a lot of it's punch out. yea, i think so too, the "elemental savant" is a shiny booby trap, even with a bright desert arcanist with "searing spell" i doubt it is worth the fuzz. ciao martin m.
jhorred 02-27-07, 08:04 PM	I have a bright desert evoker that does the fire bit. I took searing spell, as well as energy substitution, because it fit his schtick, but I don't often use it. I considered going Elemental Savant but I didn't because I'd prefer to keep some flexibility with my damage types.
Lupo 02-28-07, 01:20 AM	I have a bright desert evoker that does the fire bit. I took searing spell, as well as energy substitution, because it fit his schtick, but I don't often use it. I considered going Elemental Savant but I didn't because I'd prefer to keep some flexibility with my damage types. i have a bright desert dwarven wizard, complete with "searing spell" and "energy substitution fire", with the new metamagic school focus feat i am considering retraining as an specialist, but most probably will skip it. the character is going "mage of the arcane order" soon. ciao martin m.
jhorred 02-28-07, 03:37 PM	i have a bright desert dwarven wizard, complete with "searing spell" and "energy substitution fire", with the new metamagic school focus feat i am considering retraining as an specialist, but most probably will skip it. the character is going "mage of the arcane order" soon. ciao martin m. I've looked for PrCs for mine, but decided that the only PrC I'd take would be MAster SPecialist but that idea won't work. I'm going to take the Fiery Burst reserve feat because it fits along with his other fire feats
MeepoTheMighty 03-04-07, 12:43 PM	Are you sure? I found this with a little effort: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20020609 Energy Substitution and Energy Admixture feats are chosen for the boss fighter...indicating that you can cast spells with different energy types. Otherwise, WotC wasted a feat in creating this monster. That monster is using the 3.0 version of elemental savant, which didn't automatically convert everything to your chosen element.
Rerednaw 03-05-07, 03:33 PM	Yeah, that's how energy admixture works. Part of being a savant is that ALL energy type spells get converted to your specialty element. Hmmm, I've never really looked into this class. Are they workable in LG or does this restrict them too much? Of course as a sorceror you're being pigeonholed already...
UMiskatonic 03-05-07, 05:03 PM	Well, -I- think that it's workable. You have to be REAL careful planning spells, or you'll get crushed by the first creature that's immune to your specialty element. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the best class ever. That's actually one of the reasons that I took it. I know that I can make a perfectly good wizard/loremaster/fatespinner/archmage, but I'm just not interested in that guy. Taking something less obviously powerful and squeezing all the juice from it; that's my kind of fun.
Lupo 03-05-07, 05:12 PM	[/SIZE] Hmmm, I've never really looked into this class. Are they workable in LG or does this restrict them too much? Of course as a sorceror you're being pigeonholed already... the energy restriction is really tough, a wizard can get around some of its limitation with enough force spells, but as a sorcerer one has to devote three of the already limited spells know to energy spells AND have in addition enough spellpower with non [acid, cold, fire, lightning] spells AND spend a feat for energy substitution . . . maybe a human sorcerer with infernal heritage and infernal howl can manage it. 1: sorcerer 1; infernal heritage, infernal howl; spells: acid splash (preferred) or ray of frost, magic missile, 2: sorcerer 2; 3: sorcerer 3: energy substitution [acid would be primary choice, not many things are resistant or immune to acid, another choice would be fire in combination with the NONC searing spell feat] 4: sorcerer 4: spells: orb of [acid, cold, fire, lightning] 5: sorcerer 5: 6: sorcerer 6: maybe sculpt spell; spells: fireball or lightning bolt 7: elemental savant 1: 8: elemental savant 2: 9: elemental savant 3: 10: elemental savant 4: maybe 11: fatespinner 1 etc. elemental savant 5 is definitely a no-no, as it would be another dent in caster progression, something a sorcerer can hardly bear :rolleyes: n.b. all the spells with any of [acid, cold, fire, lightning] energy count when they are used with energy substitution to qualify for elemental savant :). might be manageable, i am not sure, definitely not my cup of tea ;) ciao martin m.
Munkwunk 03-05-07, 06:06 PM	You can certainly make this work, you just need to pick spells which will work in a variety of situations. You already have some good damage-dealing spells (Scorching Ray, Fireball, Arc of Lightning) which cover a variety of situations: single-target / no save, multiple target / save for half, multiple target / save for half no SR. You don't need to worry about picking a variety of spells which can handle a variety of energy types, you just need to make the most of your limitations. One feat which I think would be absolutely perfect for this build is Nonlethal Substiution (Fire). Suddenly, you can overcome energy resistances when necessary, assuming it's compatible with the elemental savant restriction. With your three key damage spells, you can focus on a few other areas of combat. Decide whether you want to debuff the enemy (Ray of Enfeeblement, Enervation) or buff the party (Mass Fly) but I wouldn't recommend trying to do both. You're not a wizard, after all. Personally, I recommend being a debuffer/battlefield control specialist, especially since you already have Ray of Enfeeblement and such. I would definitely recommend picking up Wall of Force, since that spell can be used in just about every combat to to good effect (believe me, I've seen it done). Wall of Ice was another good choice, but once you have Wall of Force you can replace it with something else. You might consider picking up Evard's Black Tentacles for a bit of extra damage + Battlefield Control. Also, I wonder how Freezing Fog (NONC?) would play with being a fire elemental savant. Solif Fog is a good choice if you can't get Freezing Fog though. Also, try not to worry too much about packing in defensive spells. False Life works wonders and lasts for hours/level, and Improved Blink is better than just about anything you can get to add to your AC. I've seen a critical disintegrate wiff off a blink spell; never underestimate the power of a miss chance. Restrict yourself to just using False Life and Imp. Blink and see where it gets you; it beats wasting resources and precious spell slots trying to beef up your AC. Combining these two spells with battlefield control tactics (if the enemy can't reach you because of that pesky Wall of Force, he can't hit you) and you will not only manage to survive but will also be a much bigger asset to your party.
UMiskatonic 03-05-07, 06:06 PM	So far, it's working pretty well. I built him before the current LGCS, so I've got spell focus evocation, and jinnbond (fire). DCs aren't so bad, and at 6th level, my DC 21 fireball will be hard to beat. That said, there have been fights when all I've got is enlarge person, (it turns out that demons are fireproof.) I think you can do it if you get a spell that targets each saving throw, as well as a ranged touch attack and a spell that bypasses SR. Take a spell or two that helps the party as well, like resist energy or dispel magic. The secret with a sorceror is meta-magic feats. With Empower Spell, I will have the following 3rd level spells at 7th level: (from memory) Fireball, Fly, Empowered Magic Missile, Empowered lesser Fire Orb, Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-05-07, 06:26 PM	Reserve feats are awesome for getting around the energy type restriction, because the spells don't change to your favored energy type until you cast them, so while a spell is just prepped or known, it retains it's original energy type. So a Fire Savant who knows/preps lightning bolt can use it to power Storm Bolt. The same goes for all the other reserve feats.