Enquiry about racial sub levels/alternative class features [Archive] - Wizards Community

Enquiry about racial sub levels/alternative class features [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andyr
08-01-07, 11:51 AM Apologies if this info is somewhere obvious, but I've looked in the campaign setting document and Onnawal Gazeteer (the local booklet) and can't see an answer. I'm hoping to shortly start playing LG where I live in the UK, and am thinking about character options. I have seen lists of open/closed character classes: I was wondering, though, whether racial substitution levels (from e.g. Races of Destiny) and alternative class features (from e.g. the PHII) can be used?
Ira_Dei
08-01-07, 11:58 AM If a character choice (feat/ spell/ class) is not to be found on the open or closed lists, and is not in the phb, then you need access through campaign documentation - either AR's or meta-org. So you can't take racial substitutions at creation, but I think you can retrain into them later. That last might not be right, but someone here will point that out if so.
bitznarf
08-01-07, 12:01 PM Pg 26 of the LGCS V7.5, second sentance
If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC.
So basically if the LGCS doesn't say you can use a rules option, and you don't have something else saying you can use a rules options, you can't use the rules option.
Andyr
08-01-07, 12:06 PM Thanks for the advice--what other documentation is there, though? I have both the LGCS, Onnawal Gazeteer and Onnawal Metaorg book and can't see anything about alternative class features/racial sub levels in them. Does this mean that none are available options, or is there another book somewhere I'll need to get?
bitznarf
08-01-07, 12:08 PM There are some things in the Greyhawk Ruins sourebook if you are designing a PC for the Greyhawk Ruins. Some other regions have made alternative class features/racial sub levels available. And as your PC goes adventuring you will find yet other things open up through an Adventure Record or 'AR'.
TWG_Prometheus
08-01-07, 12:11 PM It means that, in general, you'll only find access to substitution levels on your actual Adventure Records - the documentation you get for playing a Living Greyhawk module. They'll generally come as favors from your patrons and such. Don't expect access to alternate class features or substitution levels to be frequent or generous. Don't plan your whole character concept around something you don't start with access to.

The primary exception to the above is the Greyhawk Ruins story arc, which is opening up for new characters made specifically for the CGR adventure storyline. That arc is offering a lot of alternate class features from DMGII and Dungeonscape. You can find the documentation for that at the main Living Greyhawk website at wizards.com. Unless I've misunderstood something, that access will be available for at most one of your characters, however.
control freak
08-01-07, 12:15 PM however they worded it to be abused
Andyr
08-01-07, 12:16 PM I think I understand; thanks, guys!
bitznarf
08-01-07, 12:22 PM What was phrased in such a way that it would be abused? If you are talking about the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook, I would expect the next Dispel Confusion to clear that up.
however they worded it to be abused
control freak
08-01-07, 12:29 PM technecaly you can chose greyhawk as any characters home region and take the alternate class feature then it defaults back to yours if you dont play ruins with it but you still have the class feature

i agree that the next DC is going to stop this or bad things will happen
ShinAkuma2
08-01-07, 01:53 PM technecaly you can chose greyhawk as any characters home region and take the alternate class feature then it defaults back to yours if you dont play ruins with it but you still have the class feature

Not all the alternate class features are available at first level. Anyway, I would hardly call this abuse. None of the 1st level ACFs are all-mighty game breakers.
Lupo
08-01-07, 02:23 PM Thanks for the advice--what other documentation is there, though? I have both the LGCS, Onnawal Gazeteer and Onnawal Metaorg book and can't see anything about alternative class features/racial sub levels in them. Does this mean that none are available options, or is there another book somewhere I'll need to get?

if you are planning on playing a character with ANY divine class - cleric, favored soul, contemplative, divine crusader, divine oracle, paladin, pious templar etc and even for some druids and rangers - you should download the LG Deities document as well, but don't print it, it has just to many pages. just print the relevant pages ;)

ciao

martin m.
Grantor
08-01-07, 07:43 PM Keep an eye out for an update of the Onnwal Meta-org book. Earlier this year the Circle allowed the regional Triads to add racial and class subs/alts and many regions either recently added these or plan to add some before year's end.

As stated, you cannot take anything at the start that is not already in the LGCS, but retraining once you hit level two is simple and easy.
retro
08-01-07, 09:07 PM Don't plan your whole character concept around something you don't start with access to.That being said, though, if you really want a particular alternate class feature or substitution level (or PrC or feat), you can always bug your regional triad for a Special Mission.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andyr 08-01-07, 11:51 AM	Apologies if this info is somewhere obvious, but I've looked in the campaign setting document and Onnawal Gazeteer (the local booklet) and can't see an answer. I'm hoping to shortly start playing LG where I live in the UK, and am thinking about character options. I have seen lists of open/closed character classes: I was wondering, though, whether racial substitution levels (from e.g. Races of Destiny) and alternative class features (from e.g. the PHII) can be used?
Ira_Dei 08-01-07, 11:58 AM	If a character choice (feat/ spell/ class) is not to be found on the open or closed lists, and is not in the phb, then you need access through campaign documentation - either AR's or meta-org. So you can't take racial substitutions at creation, but I think you can retrain into them later. That last might not be right, but someone here will point that out if so.
bitznarf 08-01-07, 12:01 PM	Pg 26 of the LGCS V7.5, second sentance If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC. So basically if the LGCS doesn't say you can use a rules option, and you don't have something else saying you can use a rules options, you can't use the rules option.
Andyr 08-01-07, 12:06 PM	Thanks for the advice--what other documentation is there, though? I have both the LGCS, Onnawal Gazeteer and Onnawal Metaorg book and can't see anything about alternative class features/racial sub levels in them. Does this mean that none are available options, or is there another book somewhere I'll need to get?
bitznarf 08-01-07, 12:08 PM	There are some things in the Greyhawk Ruins sourebook if you are designing a PC for the Greyhawk Ruins. Some other regions have made alternative class features/racial sub levels available. And as your PC goes adventuring you will find yet other things open up through an Adventure Record or 'AR'.
TWG_Prometheus 08-01-07, 12:11 PM	It means that, in general, you'll only find access to substitution levels on your actual Adventure Records - the documentation you get for playing a Living Greyhawk module. They'll generally come as favors from your patrons and such. Don't expect access to alternate class features or substitution levels to be frequent or generous. Don't plan your whole character concept around something you don't start with access to. The primary exception to the above is the Greyhawk Ruins story arc, which is opening up for new characters made specifically for the CGR adventure storyline. That arc is offering a lot of alternate class features from DMGII and Dungeonscape. You can find the documentation for that at the main Living Greyhawk website at wizards.com. Unless I've misunderstood something, that access will be available for at most one of your characters, however.
control freak 08-01-07, 12:15 PM	however they worded it to be abused
Andyr 08-01-07, 12:16 PM	I think I understand; thanks, guys!
bitznarf 08-01-07, 12:22 PM	What was phrased in such a way that it would be abused? If you are talking about the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook, I would expect the next Dispel Confusion to clear that up. however they worded it to be abused
control freak 08-01-07, 12:29 PM	technecaly you can chose greyhawk as any characters home region and take the alternate class feature then it defaults back to yours if you dont play ruins with it but you still have the class feature i agree that the next DC is going to stop this or bad things will happen
ShinAkuma2 08-01-07, 01:53 PM	technecaly you can chose greyhawk as any characters home region and take the alternate class feature then it defaults back to yours if you dont play ruins with it but you still have the class feature Not all the alternate class features are available at first level. Anyway, I would hardly call this abuse. None of the 1st level ACFs are all-mighty game breakers.
Lupo 08-01-07, 02:23 PM	Thanks for the advice--what other documentation is there, though? I have both the LGCS, Onnawal Gazeteer and Onnawal Metaorg book and can't see anything about alternative class features/racial sub levels in them. Does this mean that none are available options, or is there another book somewhere I'll need to get? if you are planning on playing a character with ANY divine class - cleric, favored soul, contemplative, divine crusader, divine oracle, paladin, pious templar etc and even for some druids and rangers - you should download the LG Deities document as well, but don't print it, it has just to many pages. just print the relevant pages ;) ciao martin m.
Grantor 08-01-07, 07:43 PM	Keep an eye out for an update of the Onnwal Meta-org book. Earlier this year the Circle allowed the regional Triads to add racial and class subs/alts and many regions either recently added these or plan to add some before year's end. As stated, you cannot take anything at the start that is not already in the LGCS, but retraining once you hit level two is simple and easy.
retro 08-01-07, 09:07 PM	Don't plan your whole character concept around something you don't start with access to.That being said, though, if you really want a particular alternate class feature or substitution level (or PrC or feat), you can always bug your regional triad for a Special Mission.