Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Donald_Cannith 08-08-07, 09:35 PM	Alright tell me what you think Gnome Str :6 dex:14 con:14 int:16 wis:10 Cha:14 1Beguiler 1: Spell focus illusion 2Beguiler 2: 3Beguiler 3: Heighten spell(learn tashas hideous laughter or that spell that boosts face skills) 4Beguiler 4: 5Beguiler 5: Silent Spell 6Mindbender 1: metamagic school focus(illusion) 7Beguiler 6: 8Beguiler 7: 9Shadowcraft mage 1: Rapid Metamagic 10Shadowcraftmage 2: 11Shadowcraft mage 3: 12Shadowcraft mage 4:Arcane Mastery 13Shadowcraft mage 5: 14 Beguiler 8: 15: Beguiler 9: The idea is to try to make myself good at face skills( in this case, diplomacy, bluff, also some sense motive. knowledge local core, and of course the arcane skills , knowledge arcana, spellcraft, and concentration. This is going to be a LG ruins character and with it I am bumping my appraise for the Merchants guild, which is why i dont have Gather information also. I am also going to be a good arcane caster and feel that my build allows for some powerful usage of shadow magic. I know I am missing out on earth spell cheesyness but i dont have the stat points. Finally, I am unsure what is more valuable: free Still spell or Telepathy(from a one level dip in Mindbender, which would be bad in skill department but id deal with it becus it fits. Any help here would be appreciated. I decided not to go fatespinner because of skills and against unseen seer also because of skills( I dont have the skills to do all of what I do AND have 8 ranks in spot and search.) Also, I decided to take search to not let trapfinding go to waste I am debating how important this is and whether or not to drop it for Gather Information.
jstorrie 08-08-07, 10:05 PM	Arcane Thesis is not Open, is it? Do you the right spells to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage?
DuctShuiTengu 08-08-07, 10:39 PM	Arcane Thesis is not open. And at 8th level with the current build, you wouldn't qualify for Shadowcraft mage (unless I've missed something). Beguiler doesn't give you the necessary 4th level shadow spell. You could wait to pick the needed spell up, but the more common solution for this problem is to dip into a different spellcasting PrC so that you can cast 4th level spells when you take Beguiler 7, you can grab a fourth level spell (I.E. something that fills the Shadowcraft Mage prerequisite) with your Advanced Learning.
jstorrie 08-08-07, 11:08 PM	This solves your 'should I bother taking a Mindbender dip' question.
Donald_Cannith 08-08-07, 11:15 PM	Ah, I had not bothered to check if arcane thesis was open or closed. I figured itseemd so positively useless except in a few cases. I thought with advanced learning you could learn a spell that was one level higher thanyou could actually cast. Well either way mindbender isnt bad. What do I take instead? Spell penetration? anyhow build edited
JamesMaissen 08-09-07, 12:59 AM	Alright tell me what you think Gnome Str :6 dex:14 con:14 int:16 wis:10 Cha:14 Imho lower the WIS to 8 and raise the CON to 16. -James
Zanzibax 08-09-07, 08:43 AM	Arcane Thesis is not Open, is it? Do you the right spells to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage? Requirements To qualify to become a shadowcraft mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Gnome. Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Hide 4 ranks. Feats: Spell Focus (illusion). Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher. ((No shadow spells are on the Beguiler class list.))
Rayous 08-09-07, 08:55 AM	Beguiler level 11 can use advanced learning class feature to get the shadow spell. If you take a prestige class that advances spellcasting and take beguiler level 7 at level 8, you can get the shadow spell then.
Archwolf 08-09-07, 10:49 AM	There was a lot of discussion of Beguiler/Shadowcraft builds when the LGCS opened up Beguiler. If you search you can find it, but the one thing I recall is that since mindbender requires access, unseen seer is the easy way to solve the advanced learning problem: Beguiler 6/US 1/ Beg 1/SM 5/ ??? 2.
bitznarf 08-09-07, 11:00 AM	My suggestion for freats for a Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage is SF(illusion) Heighten Spell, MMSF(illusion), Earth Sense, Earth Spell.
Genghis Cohen 08-10-07, 08:23 PM	Imho lower the WIS to 8 and raise the CON to 16. -JamesI second that. Requirements To qualify to become a shadowcraft mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Gnome. Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Hide 4 ranks. Feats: Spell Focus (illusion). Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher. ((No shadow spells are on the Beguiler class list.))That's why you delay Beguiler progression with one level of a prestige class that offers spell casting progression. A PC can then use the Beguiler's Advanced Learning at 8th level to learn a shadow spell and qualify for Shadowcraft Mage.
cetiken 08-14-07, 12:02 PM	My personal opinion is that most prestige classess don't give nearly enough skill points and class skills to satisfy my beguiler's hunger. Therefore I'm a proponent of maxing out all those awsome roguish skills with a straight Beguiler 15 build. Then again I am a simple guy and YMMV.
TygerTyger 08-15-07, 01:32 PM	Actually, Legion of Sentinels is a level three Beguiler spell that has the Shadow component. With the Heighten Spell feat, you can, at level 8, Heighten it to fourth level, thus meeting the requirements for Shadowcraft Mage at level 8, without the one level dip into Mindbender. Granted, you will be stuck with a level 1-3 spell for your 8th level Beguiler Advanced Learning, but that's a call that you can make. In this instance, Mindbender dip may well be a good thing, as the telepathy might be a big bonus to you "face" suggestion. This is pretty much the build I am working on as we speak, and it looks nice. You get into Shadowcraft Mage fast, and then you can be modifying your Figment Illussions with shadow by level 11, which means you can cast any Conjuration Summoning / Creation or Evocation spells under level 4, with just a level one Heightened Silent Image. Beauty.
magebeast 08-15-07, 01:55 PM	Actually, Legion of Sentinels is a level three Beguiler spell that has the Shadow component. With the Heighten Spell feat, you can, at level 8, Heighten it to fourth level, thus meeting the requirements for Shadowcraft Mage at level 8, without the one level dip into Mindbender. Granted, you will be stuck with a level 1-3 spell for your 8th level Beguiler Advanced Learning, but that's a call that you can make. In this instance, Mindbender dip may well be a good thing, as the telepathy might be a big bonus to you "face" suggestion. This is pretty much the build I am working on as we speak, and it looks nice. You get into Shadowcraft Mage fast, and then you can be modifying your Figment Illussions with shadow by level 11, which means you can cast any Conjuration Summoning / Creation or Evocation spells under level 4, with just a level one Heightened Silent Image. Beauty. It's not universally accepted that a heightened spell qualifies you. As a player, I wouldn't create a character that iffy. As a DM, I think it's unlikely that was the way it was intended, but I wouldn't necessarily disallow it at my table.