Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 03-13-07, 12:20 AM	Hey guys, Has anyone come up with any neat way to give a Favoured Soul some ability to turn undead? It doesn't matter how useless that ability actually IS, since I'd only be using it to power divine feats, but has anyone struck any particularly good way to gain turning? The only way I can think of is to take Sacred Exorcist at 9th.
Alpha_Nerd 03-13-07, 12:22 AM	Favored Soul 8/Sacred Exorcist 1? Allows a Divine Feat at 9th.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-13-07, 12:32 AM	Sacred Exorcist seems to be the only PrC that actually grants turning if you don't already have it....several others stack with turning, but don't actually grant it themselves...
Puggle Halfwine 03-13-07, 12:40 AM	Hmm... interesting. Other options include taking a one level dip into Cleric, but that's... bleh. On the table, but still... bleh.
Alpha_Nerd 03-13-07, 02:11 AM	What Region are you in Puggle?
Puggle Halfwine 03-13-07, 06:25 PM	I'm in Ratik. Perrenland's a hop, skip and jump away tho'.
Maesto 03-15-07, 12:05 AM	Paladin will also give turning ;-) I don't know of any PrCs other than Sacred Exorcist that give turning though. Funny that, you can get a wizard with turn attempts...
copper_wyrmling 03-15-07, 12:18 AM	Paladin will also give turning ;-) I don't know of any PrCs other than Sacred Exorcist that give turning though. Funny that, you can get a wizard with turn attempts... Or a sorcerer (although the skill/spell requirements are tough for them), and high Charisma actually makes some of the divine feats really nice ;)
Maesto 03-15-07, 01:30 AM	But it's funnier on a wizard with charisma 8 ;-) Yes, sorceror does go nicer for the turning abilities. However, can a straight sorceror even qualify for sacred exorcist? From memory, they need 10 ranks in knowledge the planes, and some ranks in knowledge religion, neither of which are class skills.
copper_wyrmling 03-15-07, 01:41 AM	But it's funnier on a wizard with charisma 8 ;-) Yes, sorceror does go nicer for the turning abilities. However, can a straight sorceror even qualify for sacred exorcist? From memory, they need 10 ranks in knowledge the planes, and some ranks in knowledge religion, neither of which are class skills. If you want to do it with a single-class sorcerer, you need the Well Read feat or some equivalent. The sorc / sacred exorcist I know is something like a sorcerer / elemental savant / fatespinner / sacred exorcist. I built a sorcerer / ruathar / fatespinner / sacred exorcist for a non-LG game at L12: it worked out rather well, although getting all the skills to work was tricky (since I wanted the Sacred Healing feat at L12 and that required 8 ranks in Heal, in addition to all the cross-class Knowledge skills). It would be much easier with retraining. To Puggle: Death Delver from Heroes of Horror grants the ability to rebuke undead, but it doesn't advance spellcasting (it has its own spell list). Sacred Exorcist is the only class I know of that grants turning and would advance favored soul spellcasting.
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 09:40 AM	Sacred Exorcist for undead turning. Divine Champion for elemental or plant turning.
Japangirl 03-15-07, 05:06 PM	Very offtopic, but the ultimate turning cleric is a cleric of Obad'hai with Fire/Water and Earth/Air domains. Take Contemplative for Plant domain, then Sacred Exorcist for demon turning. You can turn or rebuke fire, water, earth, air elementals and outsiders, evil outsiders, and undead all! /endhijack
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 05:54 PM	Does Extra Turning affect the number of times one can turn creatures other than Undead?
Jay_Ibero_911 03-15-07, 06:00 PM	Does Extra Turning affect the number of times one can turn creatures other than Undead? EXTRA TURNING [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures. Benefit: Each time you take this feat, you can use your ability to turn or rebuke creatures four more times per day than normal. If you have the ability to turn or rebuke more than one kind of creature each of your turning or rebuking abilities gains four additional uses per day. Normal: Without this feat, a character can typically turn or rebuke undead (or other creatures) a number of times per day equal to 3 + his or her Charisma modifier. Special: You can gain Extra Turning multiple times. Its effects stack. Each time you take the feat, you can use each of your turning or rebuking abilities four additional times per day. There you go.
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 06:13 PM	There you go. So, in Japangirl's example she would gain 4 extra turns in each one... Wow... :eek: Problem is though, you can't worship Obad-Hai and be a Sacred Exorcist at the same time. Obad-Hai is a TN deity. As such the cleric must be TN. Sacred Exorcist requires any Good alignment.
copper_wyrmling 03-15-07, 06:20 PM	So, in Japangirl's example she would gain 4 extra turns in each one... Wow... :eek: Problem is though, you can't worship Obad-Hai and be a Sacred Exorcist at the same time. Obad-Hai is a TN deity. As such the cleric must be TN. Sacred Exorcist requires any Good alignment. Not true. A Neutral Good cleric may worship a Neutral deity - you can't be a Neutral cleric of a non-Neutral deity. Unfortunately, Sacred Exorcists don't get to turn outsiders, the PrC just grants and progresses undead turning (and debatably, it also progresses elemental turning).
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 06:23 PM	Knight of the Silver Chalice gets Censure Demons. Censure Demons isn't Turn Outsiders though.
Japangirl 03-15-07, 07:35 PM	Hmm good point. Oh well, all elements + undead is still nice.
Puggle Halfwine 03-15-07, 08:03 PM	S'ok, I've come up with another idea- but oh well. I guess Sacred Exorcist is on the cards still, if the character gets some kind of massive skill points infusion...
Lupo 03-15-07, 09:07 PM	Very offtopic, but the ultimate turning cleric is a cleric of Obad'hai with Fire/Water and Earth/Air domains. Take Contemplative for Plant domain, then Sacred Exorcist for demon turning. You can turn or rebuke fire, water, earth, air elementals and outsiders, evil outsiders, and undead all! /endhijack the problem is that the elemental turnings are only of very limited use :( i have such a cleric and till now (one AR short of level 5) had no chance of turning anything - ok, at level 11 another cleric turned some air elementals but shortly afterwards the elementals hit dice prevent any further attempt. and the elemental turning feats are very few, only in races of stone is ONE that doesn't need either another feat, dwarven race or is totally useless like "healing elementals" . . and my cleric has the wrong element, but i consider retraining. and there are no feats to boost elemental turnings . . . .:rolleyes: so overall not a really good choice nice for flavor and rp, but a more solid choice for LG is a radiant servant of mighty cheese . . . sorry :weep: (i am a little disappointed that there were no other elemental feats - for elements apart from earth, but as usual one can place a sure bet that WotC R&D is sure to exploit every silly feat tree and variation of "standards" before they do something useful ;)) ciao martin m.
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 09:40 PM	Note: The elemental domains (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) don't actually state Elementals. Ex: Air Domain Granted Power: Turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. I would take that to mean any creatures with the specified element anywhere in their type, including subtype. So one could turn or destroy an Outsider if it had Earth in it's subtype.
copper_wyrmling 03-15-07, 11:14 PM	Note: The elemental domains (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) don't actually state Elementals. Ex: Air Domain Granted Power: Turn or destroy earth creatures as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster air creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. I would take that to mean any creatures with the specified element anywhere in their type, including subtype. So one could turn or destroy an Outsider if it had Earth in it's subtype. That's true. It still doesn't come up very often. My L15 fire-cleric has never, in nearly 100 ARs, encountered a hostile [Water] creature, as far as I can remember. Odd, I know. My L12 sorc has met one elder water elemental in her career. My low-level sorc may have met some [Water] creatures when playing Ratik sea-based adventures: they were definitely aquatic, not sure if they were [Water] type. [Fire] creatures are more common, but still quite rare. My cleric has fought five encounters with [Fire] creatures where rebuking them seemed like a plausible option (Huge or larger fire elementals are generally bad targets): 1. Some magmins at APL 6 (which she commanded and used as scouts for the rest of the scenario), 2. A couple of salamander guards at APL 6 (she rebuked one), 3. Some advanced hellhounds at APL 10 (failed to rebuke them), 4. Some noble salamanders at APL 12 (failed to rebuke them), 5. Two advanced efreet at APL 14 (I didn't even try: that PC now has better options against evil outsiders than trying to rebuke them) She's been hoping for a long time to run into a pyrohydra in an interactive (one with a number of heads equal to half her level or less). A pet pyrohydra would be a lot of fun, especially now she can cast Energy Immunity on it :D I personally think, based on my own experience, that the elemental domain powers are among the weakest domain powers. The spells are great, but the granted powers just never see significant use.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-15-07, 11:31 PM	I personally think, based on my own experience, that the elemental domain powers are among the weakest domain powers. The spells are great, but the granted powers just never see significant use. Agreed. For some reason I've always thought it'd be neat if the power was the ability to summon elementals of the specified type at the same level druids do. i.e. A cleric with the water domain could use Summon Monster V to summon a large water elemental or a medium elemental of any other vareity. Don't forget the plant domain! Us slightly more refined treehuggers feel domain pain too. Although I did actually get to rebuke an advanced assasin vine. Probably was my last chance to do so too, since radiant cheezeweasel doesn't advance that type of turning.
LachlarlanIII 03-15-07, 11:38 PM	That's true. It still doesn't come up very often. My L15 fire-cleric has never, in nearly 100 ARs, encountered a hostile [Water] creature, as far as I can remember. Odd, I know. My L12 sorc has met one elder water elemental in her career. My low-level sorc may have met some [Water] creatures when playing Ratik sea-based adventures: they were definitely aquatic, not sure if they were [Water] type. [Fire] creatures are more common, but still quite rare. My cleric has fought five encounters with [Fire] creatures where rebuking them seemed like a plausible option (Huge or larger fire elementals are generally bad targets): 1. Some magmins at APL 6 (which she commanded and used as scouts for the rest of the scenario), 2. A couple of salamander guards at APL 6 (she rebuked one), 3. Some advanced hellhounds at APL 10 (failed to rebuke them), 4. Some noble salamanders at APL 12 (failed to rebuke them), 5. Two advanced efreet at APL 14 (I didn't even try: that PC now has better options against evil outsiders than trying to rebuke them) She's been hoping for a long time to run into a pyrohydra in an interactive (one with a number of heads equal to half her level or less). A pet pyrohydra would be a lot of fun, especially now she can cast Energy Immunity on it :D I personally think, based on my own experience, that the elemental domain powers are among the weakest domain powers. The spells are great, but the granted powers just never see significant use. You could always try summoning some water subtype creature then bolster it.
LachlarlanIII 03-19-07, 04:31 PM	Hmm good point. Oh well, all elements + undead is still nice. You forgot to add Plants.
Morgen 03-21-07, 02:29 PM	Jeez, come to the Shield Lands, we've got rogue elementals wondering all over the damn place it seems. :(