Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lightblade 07-17-07, 05:22 PM	I've got a wood elf archer, and now that i'm past level 6 I'm done picking the essential feats and am trying to figure out how to fill the rest of my slots. Right now i'm 7th level, with stats: 16/17/12/10/12/10 1-7) 4 Ranger / 3 Scout, with PBS, Precise, and Swift Hunter 8) Ranger 9) Ranger, Manyshot Virtual Feat, Feat Slot 1 10) Scout: Bonus Feat is Improved Skirmish 11)Ranger 12)Ranger, Feat Slot 2 13)Ranger 14)Ranger 15)Ranger, Virtual Feat 2, Feat Slot 3 Here are the feats I'm thinking about: Improved Critical (maybe not as great for a skirmisher) Leadership (for a marshal cohort with Grant Move Action) Improved precise (To take at 12th level, and retrain at 15th when I get it as a bonus, maybe?) Tactile Trapsmith, since my dex bonus is 4+ better than my int. Any suggestions? Also, in case a metaorg in Keoland will offer it at some point, what do people think of the Complete Champion option to dump spellcasting for three bonus archery feats? Or, for that matter, the other ranger alternate options in Complete Champion?
ShinAkuma2 07-17-07, 07:15 PM	Improved Precise Shot as soon as possible. It can be a lifesaver. I'd suggest Woodland Archer, but if you're not making full attacks, it not quite as useful.
clannagh 07-17-07, 08:51 PM	It will take 3 feats but a traditional choice is always: WF bow, Weapon Specialisation bow and then weapon mastery for a total of +3 to hit and +4 damage per shot. Alternatively if you are taking a ranger animal companion you could take Natural Bond to bump your companion a bit.
jstorrie 07-17-07, 10:00 PM	Take the same feats you would as a full-attacking-archer, as your full attacks will still outdamage skirmish; it's just a nice bonus to have for when you need to move-attack.
DuctShuiTengu 07-18-07, 12:55 PM	Improved Precise Shot as soon as possible. It can be a lifesaver. Agreed. I'd snag this one in Feat Slot 2, then retrain it to something else at 15. (when you pick it up as a bonus feat from your Ranger levels) WF bow, Weapon Specialisation bow and then weapon mastery for a total of +3 to hit and +4 damage per shot. As nice as I'll agree that this combination is, with just Ranger and Scout levels, you don't meet the prerequisites. Alternatively if you are taking a ranger animal companion you could take Natural Bond to bump your companion a bit. I like Natural bond, but with a build like this, I don't think it's going to be enough to make your animal companion relevant as anything besides an aerial scout or an assistant for tracking. Take the same feats you would as a full-attacking-archer, as your full attacks will still outdamage skirmish; it's just a nice bonus to have for when you need to move-attack. And this one I'll agree with. The main thing archery has going for it is that you get a full attack every round. An extra die of damage on one attack isn't enough to make up for losing the extra attacks you get from using rapid shot. As such, I'll second Woodland Archer as a suggestion, as well as Improved Rapid Shot. Personally, I'm also fond of Ranged Disarm as a way to use iterative attacks to force enemy spellcasters to pick up their holy symbol/spell component pouch (though this is more useful when you either have something there to catch it, or allies in place to use AoOs to pound on them while they're retrieving it).
LachlarlanIII 07-18-07, 05:51 PM	Take the same feats you would as a full-attacking-archer, as your full attacks will still outdamage skirmish; it's just a nice bonus to have for when you need to move-attack. Why not Manyshot and get the skirmish damage and multiple arrow damage? Skirmish requires one to be withing 30 ft. Manyshot does as well. IMO, a skirmish archer should rapid shot if he's outside skirmish range and can't make it into skirmish range as a single move.
Jay_Ibero_911 07-18-07, 06:16 PM	Why not Manyshot and get the skirmish damage and multiple arrow damage? Skirmish requires one to be withing 30 ft. Manyshot does as well. IMO, a skirmish archer should rapid shot if he's outside skirmish range and can't make it into skirmish range as a single move. Greater Manyshot from XPH would be great....regular manyshot only so-so...
jstorrie 07-18-07, 07:41 PM	Manyshot doesn't let you apply precision-based damage (like Skirmish) to multiple targets, does it? The Ranger spell Arrow Storm might, though. The trick is getting that high-level of Ranger spells in a Swift Hunter build.
clannagh 07-18-07, 08:07 PM	Manyshot doesn't let you apply precision-based damage (like Skirmish) to multiple targets, does it? All arrows to the same target with the one attack roll. Precision damage only applies to the first arrow. Interesting Question: Does a many shot attack count as a single attack for massive damage ?
Lightblade 07-18-07, 08:32 PM	Manyshot doesn't let you apply precision-based damage (like Skirmish) to multiple targets, does it? The Ranger spell Arrow Storm might, though. The trick is getting that high-level of Ranger spells in a Swift Hunter build. Arrow Storm's problem is that it's a swift action spell that requires a full round action attack, which pretty much eliminates any way of moving the 10/20 feet for skirmish.
control freak 07-18-07, 08:39 PM	thats why dervish is great :D it simply breaks the rules and tells the party "ok im going to come up wack the guy 2-4 times and then run behind the 100+ hp fighter and get skirmish 2+ times"
JamesMaissen 07-18-07, 09:03 PM	Interesting Question: Does a many shot attack count as a single attack for massive damage ? No, no more than asking if DR only applies once. -James
Hariman 07-19-07, 11:20 AM	Arrow Storm's problem is that it's a swift action spell that requires a full round action attack, which pretty much eliminates any way of moving the 10/20 feet for skirmish. But still, if you can attack 8 enemies VS only 2 or 3... Also, a marshal cohort using a readied grant move action would work, but only sometimes.
Lightblade 07-19-07, 11:38 AM	Yeah, i've thought about that, and may go down the route of the marshal cohort. I've also got an Anklet of Translocation for another 2x/day with table variation, and will most likely end up with the chronocharm that lets me move half speed as a swift action once a day. What I really would like is the Travel Devotion feat from Complete Champion, but personally i think the Circle should blanket disallow ALL of the devotion feats. As an aside, is there a feat that gives Gather Information as a class skill?
LachlarlanIII 07-19-07, 11:58 AM	Also, a marshal cohort using a readied grant move action would work, but only sometimes. I'm not so sure this works. The skirmish ability states you gain it on your turn after moving a certain distance. The marshal's Grant Move Action ability happens on his turn.
Lightblade 07-19-07, 12:12 PM	The idea is that the marshal readies a Grant Move Action on something i do at the start of my turn (say, knocking an arrow).
LachlarlanIII 07-19-07, 12:31 PM	Even so, when a ready goes off it becomes that person's initiative again and interrupts the turn of the character that triggered his action. Don't get me wrong, I would like for it to work the way you describe, but per RAW, I don't think it works.
Al 07-19-07, 02:34 PM	...The main thing archery has going for it is that you get a full attack every round. An extra die of damage on one attack isn't enough to make up for losing the extra attacks you get from using rapid shot... Actually, the build as specified would be getting +2d6, +1 AC with a 10' move and +4d6, +3 AC with a 20' move, granted that you would still need to be within 30'. If you could fit it in, shot on the run would work well.
Lightblade 07-19-07, 02:53 PM	Unfortunately, Shot on the Run does not work with Manyshot. And for the next two levels I will indeed be doing better with a rapidshot full attack. But at 9th level I would think that Manyshot + 3d6 skirmish would beat out the full attack (and by 10th level when Improved Skirmish kicks in it's all but certain).