Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Demoyn 07-19-07, 09:40 AM	So my fiance is a 6th level human healer. She wants to be a healer for the unicorn, so prestige classes are out. She does, however, still enjoy being powerful (even though she crippled herself for a unicorn), and would like some help with her character. Right now she's: Str 8 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 16 (cloak of charisma +2) Scribe scroll Improved Toughness Skill Focus (Heal) - free Augment Healing She's also saving her last 2 TUs for an interactive this year, so while suggesting a retrain of improved toughness to something else won't take place until level 7 (we intended to retrain this feat if neccessary from the beginning, but it's worked well thus far). What feat would you take at level 6? I'd prefer to take a feat or two that would help her have more options than delay and heal (maybe point blank and precise shot). She doesn't want to take away from her strengths though, so right now we're looking at feats such as craft wand and mobile spellcasting. What do you think?
Cainin 07-19-07, 09:51 AM	I think it was called Spontaneous Healing. The feat was in Complete Divine and would let her convert 1 spell/day (per pt of WS modifier) in a Cure spell (like a cleric). Taht way you could load up on utility spells if you wanted to, but still be able to cure as neccessary.
Demoyn 07-19-07, 10:13 AM	I thought about that for a brief second, but she already has scribe scroll, so her utility is covered since she uses scrolls for the utility spells and memorizes mostly heal spells (plus she can use more than 3 scrolls per day, where she'd only be able to convert 3 otherwise).
delewobmesid 07-19-07, 10:27 AM	Leadership and pickup a melee damage dealer? I don't know the healer spell list so I don't know if CWI would be a waste or not.
Cainin 07-19-07, 10:40 AM	The other feat I had on my old Healer was Divine Vigor. (If I got the name right.) It was the one from Complete Divine that let you spend turning attempts to grants all living creatures Fast Healing. (Duration and effect all based on your CH modifier.) I had to dip 1 lvl into Cleric for that, then continued on as a pure Healer for the rest of the career. If you get access to the Sudden metamagic series through a module or meta-org, I would diffinitely suggest those as well. Particularly the Empower and Maximize for mid combat healing.
Demoyn 07-19-07, 11:31 AM	Yeah, dipping into cleric would be good for multiple reasons. It'd give her the ability to take divine ward (great for a healer), and it would also allow her to use wands of offensive spells like entangle (she's a healer of Ehlonna). Unfortunately, that would slow the progression of her unicorn, and she's in love with "Sprinkles."
Arcane Guyver 07-19-07, 11:38 AM	Might want to check Complete Mage for some feats. Magic Disruption, Magic Sensitive, and Sickening Grasp are a few Reserve feats that could give her more options. Otherwise...Leadership does look like a good option.
Demoyn 07-19-07, 02:38 PM	I hadn't even thought about leadership, but that would do everything she wanted and more (provided we don't have 6 people at the table). We'll definitely look into taking that. Are there any other good feats out there that someone would suggest? Leadership, while a great idea, is limited. As such, we'll still compare it to other feats before deciding.
CdrcJsn 07-19-07, 04:46 PM	Since she's so keen on the unicorn, you might try the Fey Heritage feat line if it fits her character. The first one is a bit of a throw-away (+3 will save vs enchantment spells). But after that you can get Fey Presence (gives charm monster, deep slumber and disguise self as spell like abilities once per day). It's not much, but the spell-like abilities give her more options during combat. Of course, Craft Wondrous Item is still nice even if you only use it for just Pearls of Power and Ioun Stones (at 12th level). If you have cross class skill ranks in UMD, you might be able to craft other things using purchased scrolls (a cloak of resistance for example uses resistance, a 0 level spell which can be purchased for 12.5 gold). A failure to activate just means you cannot use a particular scroll that day. Not a big concern if you buy a few extras. Chain Spell is also good to take around level 9 or 12. A Chained Close Wounds is nice. At 13th level, a Chained Delay Death is even better. Personally, I'm using the Calm Emotions to split up the bad guys tactic on my healer, so I've been trying to find ways to increase her DCs (spell focus, heighten spell, etc).
Sieylianna 07-19-07, 05:12 PM	I looked at Track for my healer. Survival is a class skill and you have a good Wisdom, so you're likely to outpace the ranger. That broadens the character, but whether it is worth if depends on how often you need tracking in a module and how many rangers are in your area. Ed
boogahwoof 07-19-07, 05:57 PM	Maybe reach spell on those rare occasions she isnt close to someone to heal them?
CdrcJsn 07-19-07, 07:46 PM	Maybe reach spell on those rare occasions she isnt close to someone to heal them? Not as much of a concern with the expanded spell lists we have for LG. Mass Lesser Vigor as a 2nd level spell has almost the same reach as a Reach Cure X. With Augment Healing and her healing hands ability, it will heal 7 points the first round in addition to granting fast healing 1. And that's assuming she doesn't have access to Close Wounds. At 7th level, she gets access to Mass Cure Light which has a longer range than the Reach Spell feat can give her.
boogahwoof 07-19-07, 11:00 PM	Well i have a 10th level cleric that I took leadership at 9th, and I took a healer as a co hort. So that was really all i could think of, I like the class but they just are to 1 dimentional for me, although i think its cool I now have a healer with a unicorn, its like playing 3 folks at once.
boogahwoof 07-19-07, 11:00 PM	sorry accidently posted 2 times lol
Ralis 07-19-07, 11:38 PM	I don't understand why people automatically go "take spontanous healer" whenever someone starts a healer thread. To be honest, if you look at they're spell list they don't have much else to cast besides healing spells. Combat casting is never a bad feat to take with a spell casting character. Especailly one that needs to be towards the front of the group (like your healer) Another idea, is to simply get her a reach weapon, like a spear, so she can do an Aid action in combat. (make an AC 10 attack roll, to give another party member a +2 on they're next attack)
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 12:06 AM	I don't understand why people automatically go "take spontanous healer" whenever someone starts a healer thread. To be honest, if you look at they're spell list they don't have much else to cast besides healing spells. Unless you're willing to spend a lot more on consumables, most of the spells the healer should memorize aren't just regular cure spells. Taking Spontaneous Healer just gives you more flexibility in differrent situations without hampering your ability to toss out heals by allowing you to memorize those spells. The OP apparently is fine with using scribe scrolls to provide utility, so it's not an issue for him.
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 12:07 AM	Combat casting is never a bad feat to take with a spell casting character. Especailly one that needs to be towards the front of the group (like your healer) Combat Casting helps in the early levels, but at 7th level healers can cast their spells without needing to cast defensively thanks to Effortless Healing.
Demoyn 07-20-07, 01:48 AM	Not as much of a concern with the expanded spell lists we have for LG. Mass Lesser Vigor as a 2nd level spell has almost the same reach as a Reach Cure X. With Augment Healing and her healing hands ability, it will heal 7 points the first round in addition to granting fast healing 1. That's not quite accurate. First of all, vigor (or any vigor varient) has no dice to roll, so augment healing doesn't affect it. Second, healing hands is only used on a spell that "cures" damage, not heals it or provides a fast healing ability. Vigor is actually the bane of healers everywhere! I did think of the track feat. It would be a very good feat for her and help the party quite a bit in some areas. Unfortunately track isn't something that would help her stay awake in combat, which was the main goal. She already has a longspear and aids another action. Again, though, it doesn't keep her awake in combat. :) I'm at the point where I'm seriously thinking of suggesting that she take leadership and buy a fighter, and also take her new level as cleric with the magic domain and hand her a magic missile wand. Tons of options that way!
clannagh 07-20-07, 02:21 AM	The downside of a healer in combat is the refusal to wear metal armors and use shields. One way around this is to take advantage of the unicorn that turns up at level 8, retraining improved toughness into mounted combat at 7 and taking ride-by-attack at 9. This will also allow her to do "ride-by-heals" on damaged party members.
Gwumph 07-20-07, 04:01 AM	Demonyn.....I disargee with how you read the above feats and abilities. First off Augmented healing says it works for any Conjuration healing spell, which lesser vigor is. Secondly if you look at page 33 of the latest FAQ, it specifically says augemented healing feat works with vigor spells. Also for healing hands ability, if you read further down it says it applies to spells from the healing sub-school of which vigor is. cheers Gwumph
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 06:08 AM	That's not quite accurate. First of all, vigor (or any vigor varient) has no dice to roll, so augment healing doesn't affect it. Second, healing hands is only used on a spell that "cures" damage, not heals it or provides a fast healing ability. Vigor is actually the bane of healers everywhere! Not quite. Augment Healing does help the vigor spell line. It helps all conjuration(healing) spells by adding 2hps of healing per spell level. It doesn't specify that you have to roll dice for it to be effective. This even applies to spells like Neutralize Poison. How to apply it to the vigor spell line of spells was addressed in LG (either in the LGCS, Dispel Confusion or a cirlce post on the main LG yahoogroup). You can apply the extra healing at any point of the spell. And thanks to the Augment Healing feat, the spell now cures hit point damage, so your Healing Hands ability now works.
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 06:10 AM	Also for healing hands ability, if you read further down it says it applies to spells from the healing sub-school of which vigor is. Unfortunately, Healing Hands specifies that the spell must cure hit point damage (first line of the ability description). However, with the Augment Healing feat, that means any Conjuration(healing) spell now cures hit point damage.
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 06:14 AM	The downside of a healer in combat is the refusal to wear metal armors and use shields. One way around this is to take advantage of the unicorn that turns up at level 8, retraining improved toughness into mounted combat at 7 and taking ride-by-attack at 9. This will also allow her to do "ride-by-heals" on damaged party members. Actually, this doesn't work. Ride by Attack specifies that it only prevents AoO from the opponent that you charge. As long as you don't get in the way of any threatened squares, you can do the "ride in, heal, ride out" tactic using a regular mount. Just ready an action. You'll need suitable ranks in concentration to be able to cast while riding though (10+level).
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 06:21 AM	Unfortunately track isn't something that would help her stay awake in combat, which was the main goal. At low APLs, I highly suggest that Healers get a trained riding dog. Handle Animal is a class skill, and a Riding Dog with barding can be useful even at APL6 due to its trip ability. At the very least, you can cast Speak with Animals and get it to track or use it's scent ability to pinpoint invisible foes. In any case, it's worth a move action and few hundred golds to get a riding dog and have something to do during combats.
JamesMaissen 07-20-07, 01:09 PM	As long as you don't get in the way of any threatened squares, you can do the "ride in, heal, ride out" tactic using a regular mount. Just ready an action. You'll need suitable ranks in concentration to be able to cast while riding though (10+level). You don't even need that much. In fact you don't even need a mount (other than for much more movement). 1. Cast healing spell (std action). 2. Start moving (either riding or walking with move action) 3. Touch recipient during the same round that you cast the spell. 4. Continue moving (either riding or walking with same move action) Now there is a concentration check if you wish to cast *during* the mount's move and that's where the DC 10+spell level comes into play. -James
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 04:24 PM	You don't even need that much. In fact you don't even need a mount (other than for much more movement). 1. Cast healing spell (std action). 2. Start moving (either riding or walking with move action) 3. Touch recipient during the same round that you cast the spell. 4. Continue moving (either riding or walking with same move action) Now there is a concentration check if you wish to cast *during* the mount's move and that's where the DC 10+spell level comes into play. -James ?!?! I'm sorry, but you do need a mount to pull this tactic off. Otherwise, you cast, you move in and touch...and that's it. You end up next to the person you touched since you're out of move actions, and within a 5' step of any bad guys attacking your friend. You can't split up your move action like that. Casting out of any threatened area and moving in wasn't the tactic being discussed. Being able to cast a spell on someone and end up away from any threatening critters is. Unless you're talking about spending two rounds to do this maneuver...
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 04:31 PM	The relevant text for touch spells is on page 141 "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."
solbergb 07-20-07, 04:33 PM	I gotta concur with the majority. You need spont healer so you can take the excellent Healer "remove nastiness" spells and their handful of other spells such as calm emotions. You need augment healing because it just is that good on a healbot. After that - the spell list is extremely limited. Which means you may wish to look at reserve feats, or actual physical combat or even UMD cross-class to give yourself more to do when nobody needs healing. In the low levels, doing handle animal with the nastiest animal you can buy is a good option. It won't quite tide you over till you get the unicorn, but it will help in APL2 and 4. (my paladin with mount as companion build uses a similar approach for similar reasons, except he gets his mount at L5 not L8ish)
Demoyn 07-20-07, 04:56 PM	Some sound advice. The only issue that I have is that she's already level 6. :) Also, again, she handles things like calm emotions with her scrolls that she already has scribed.
Sieylianna 07-20-07, 05:58 PM	The downside of a healer in combat is the refusal to wear metal armors and use shields. I'm not sure why the class has the metal restriction. Since they only receive light armor proficiency, they're already very much constrained. I'm torn between looking for leafweave studded armor access and relying on the party wizard for mage armor. Ed
Sieylianna 07-20-07, 06:01 PM	Combat casting is never a bad feat to take with a spell casting character. Especailly one that needs to be towards the front of the group (like your healer) You should never take Combat Casting unless it is required for a prestige class. If you want to improve your ability to cast defensively, take Skill Focus - Concentration which helps with concentration checks for wounds, for movement and for casting defensively (although at +3 instead of +4). Ed