Finesse power attacker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Finesse power attacker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Efekjek
04-05-07, 12:35 PM Still tryin to decide what to play for greyhawk ruins. Would appreciate some thoughts on this character.

Elf
14 Str
16 Dex
12 Con
14 Int
8 Wis
12 Cha

1 Ranger (Track), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade)
2 Fighter Weapon Finesse*
3 Fighter Dodge*, Combat Expertise
4 Ranger
5 Ranger (Endurance)
6 Wildrunner Mounted Combat
7 Wildrunner
8 Champion of CL Power Attack*
9 Champion of CL ?

Maybe swashbuckler for int to damage? Hmmm, doesn't swash get weapon finesse? Might have a problem with xp penalties, then.

Concerns:
Not getting power attack until 8.
Abysmal will save.
Lowish hp for a front-liner.

I'm just not sure I'd be bringing enough to the table.
LachlarlanIII
04-05-07, 01:22 PM I had the same idea a while back and came up with:

High Elf Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Champion of Corellon 2/Dervish 6
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

1: Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse, Power Attack
2: Swashbuckler 2:
3: Swashbuckler 3: EWP* (Elven Courtblade)
4: Fighter 1: Con 14, Combat Expertise
5: Fighter 2: Dodge
6: Fighter 3: Mounted Combat
7: Figther 4: Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade)
8: Champion of Corellon 1: Dex 17, Mobility
9: Champion of Corellon 2: Elusive Target
10: Dervish 1:
11: Dervish 2:
12: Dervish 3: Dex 18, Spring Attack, WS** (Elven Courtblade)
13: Dervish 4:
14: Dervish 5:
15: Dervish 6: Improved Toughness

*Exotic Weapon Proficiency
**Weapon Specialization

You get Dex, Int and Strength to damage against crittable critters.

You'd probably want to do start with Fighter and alternate between it and Swashbuckler until you get Champion of Corellon so you avoid xp penalties.

PS: Why 12 Cha?
Efekjek
04-05-07, 02:03 PM Because number of primal screams per day is dependent on Cha. The reason i didn't go dervish is because I think it's a little cheesy, even though it is probably the best way to go. Also, I just enjoy the wildrunner flavor.
LachlarlanIII
04-05-07, 02:17 PM I think the build I posted can qualify for Wildrunner after the two levels of Champion of Corellon.

So it can go Wildrunner 6 instead of Dervish 6.

Not sure about the skill cruch though.
jstorrie
04-05-07, 05:32 PM The cookie-cutter Finesse Power Attacker build for 597 is now:

Human
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 8
1 Rogue: Power Attack, Telling Blow (Trapfinding, Sneak Attack 1d6)
2 Ftr: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Courtblade
3 Swash Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Elven Courtblade
4 Swash (Grace +1)
5 Rogue (Evasion)
6 Rogue: Daring Outlaw (Sneak Attack 3d6, Dodge Bonus +1)
7 Ftr: Power Critical: Elven Courtblade
8 Ftr
9 Ftr Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery
10 Swash (Insightful Strike)
11 Rogue (Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack 4d6)
12 Swash Improved Critical: Elven Courtblade
13 Swash (Sneak Attack 5d6)
14 Swash (Dodge bonus +2)
15 Swash Slashing Flurry (Sneak Attack 6d6)

Use or abuse at your own leisure–it's the top tier of light infantry this year.
Mithreinmaethor
04-05-07, 06:51 PM Maybe in 4.0 they will make it so if you can Finesse the weapon you cant Power Attack with it.

Now give me a chance to put on my flame retardant overalls before you start in on me.
JamesMaissen
04-06-07, 02:15 PM Maybe in 4.0 they will make it so if you can Finesse the weapon you cant Power Attack with it.

Maybe they'll simply make them combat options rather than feats.

And to Jstorrie, your build isn't rules compliant. EWP requires a +1 BAB. You'll need to swap it and power attack (though likely you'll retrain into power attack as you won't have a BAB at 1st level). Which isn't to comment on my opinions of it in general.

-James
jstorrie
04-06-07, 02:49 PM Good catch. Having to put up with a useless Power Attack for your first level is hardly crippling, thankfully; no retraining is really necessary.
boolean
04-08-07, 01:55 AM Good catch. Having to put up with a useless Power Attack for your first level is hardly crippling, thankfully; no retraining is really necessary.

It's not necessary, but you could take advantage of the retraining rules by taking something like Toughness at 1st level, and retraining it into Power Attack at 2nd or 3rd.

(At 2nd level your attack bonus is pretty low. You've got +1 BA so you could use PA, but you probably wouldn't. So it might be worth holding off retraining until 3rd.)
ithardin
04-08-07, 04:10 PM The Elven Courtblade uses any feats you also have for a greatsword (if I am remembering this correctly) so I would suggest that other then EWP I would have your other Courtblade feats as Greatsword feats, that way if you come across access to a really nifty Greatsword you can take advantage of it.

I know that will be the rare occasion where a finesse-wielding PC would want to use a Greatsword, but you would have proficiency (Swashbuckler), power attack, weapon focus, etc, etc.
jstorrie
04-08-07, 05:46 PM Clever idea. I don't see any reason why not to take Weapon Focus and Specialization in Greatsword, you're right.
Gallaway
04-09-07, 11:08 PM alternatively .. consider improved weapon familiarity
jstorrie
04-09-07, 11:58 PM It's not going to do much good for you as a human - and if you go as an elf the feats don't line up as nicely (you have to delay Weapon Focus for quite a long time, can't pick up Power Critical, etc.)

And, of course, there's the experience penalty problem. So Improved Weapon Familiarity is definitely not a viable option.
bitznarf
04-10-07, 12:01 AM alternatively .. consider improved weapon familiarity
Problems can crop up should you get reincarnated and other possible table variations surrounding that rule. I would recommend against it, unless it does actually help the build in a significant manner.
Gwumph
04-10-07, 12:39 AM Lachlaran,

you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work?
clannagh
04-10-07, 01:05 AM Lachlaran,

you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work?

That would be the two levels of Champon of Corellan doing that. Only works when weilding a few specific weapons.
LachlarlanIII
04-10-07, 10:48 AM Lachlaran,

you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work?

Champion of Corellon 2 gives the ability to add your Dex modifier to damage while weilding "elven" weapons.

These include the longsword, rapier, courtblade, thinblade, and lightblade. I think it also includes the scimitar.

You only get to add the damage if the monster isn't immune to sneak attack and crits though.

In my above build, I can add Int, Dex and Strength while wielding a courtblade.
clannagh
04-10-07, 11:36 PM In my above build, I can add Int, Dex and Strength while wielding a courtblade.

If you had a level of a turning class you could take Divine Might (CW) and then be adding Int, Dex, Strength and Charisma for a round :)

I am not aware of anything that adds Con or Wisdom to damage though.
jstorrie
04-11-07, 12:33 AM Battlesmith adds Wisdom to warhammers, but let's not get ridiculous, here!
LachlarlanIII
04-11-07, 09:30 AM Battlesmith adds Wisdom to warhammers, but let's not get ridiculous, here!

It's either Dex or Wis I'm afraid.

The CoC's ability doesn't apply to any bludgeoning weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Efekjek 04-05-07, 12:35 PM	Still tryin to decide what to play for greyhawk ruins. Would appreciate some thoughts on this character. Elf 14 Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 1 Ranger (Track), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade) 2 Fighter Weapon Finesse* 3 Fighter Dodge, Combat Expertise 4 Ranger 5 Ranger (Endurance) 6 Wildrunner Mounted Combat 7 Wildrunner 8 Champion of CL Power Attack 9 Champion of CL ? Maybe swashbuckler for int to damage? Hmmm, doesn't swash get weapon finesse? Might have a problem with xp penalties, then. Concerns: Not getting power attack until 8. Abysmal will save. Lowish hp for a front-liner. I'm just not sure I'd be bringing enough to the table.
LachlarlanIII 04-05-07, 01:22 PM	I had the same idea a while back and came up with: High Elf Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Champion of Corellon 2/Dervish 6 Str 14, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8 1: Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse, Power Attack 2: Swashbuckler 2: 3: Swashbuckler 3: EWP* (Elven Courtblade) 4: Fighter 1: Con 14, Combat Expertise 5: Fighter 2: Dodge 6: Fighter 3: Mounted Combat 7: Figther 4: Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade) 8: Champion of Corellon 1: Dex 17, Mobility 9: Champion of Corellon 2: Elusive Target 10: Dervish 1: 11: Dervish 2: 12: Dervish 3: Dex 18, Spring Attack, WS** (Elven Courtblade) 13: Dervish 4: 14: Dervish 5: 15: Dervish 6: Improved Toughness Exotic Weapon Proficiency *Weapon Specialization You get Dex, Int and Strength to damage against crittable critters. You'd probably want to do start with Fighter and alternate between it and Swashbuckler until you get Champion of Corellon so you avoid xp penalties. PS: Why 12 Cha?
Efekjek 04-05-07, 02:03 PM	Because number of primal screams per day is dependent on Cha. The reason i didn't go dervish is because I think it's a little cheesy, even though it is probably the best way to go. Also, I just enjoy the wildrunner flavor.
LachlarlanIII 04-05-07, 02:17 PM	I think the build I posted can qualify for Wildrunner after the two levels of Champion of Corellon. So it can go Wildrunner 6 instead of Dervish 6. Not sure about the skill cruch though.
jstorrie 04-05-07, 05:32 PM	The cookie-cutter Finesse Power Attacker build for 597 is now: Human Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 8 1 Rogue: Power Attack, Telling Blow (Trapfinding, Sneak Attack 1d6) 2 Ftr: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Courtblade 3 Swash Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Elven Courtblade 4 Swash (Grace +1) 5 Rogue (Evasion) 6 Rogue: Daring Outlaw (Sneak Attack 3d6, Dodge Bonus +1) 7 Ftr: Power Critical: Elven Courtblade 8 Ftr 9 Ftr Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery 10 Swash (Insightful Strike) 11 Rogue (Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack 4d6) 12 Swash Improved Critical: Elven Courtblade 13 Swash (Sneak Attack 5d6) 14 Swash (Dodge bonus +2) 15 Swash Slashing Flurry (Sneak Attack 6d6) Use or abuse at your own leisure–it's the top tier of light infantry this year.
Mithreinmaethor 04-05-07, 06:51 PM	Maybe in 4.0 they will make it so if you can Finesse the weapon you cant Power Attack with it. Now give me a chance to put on my flame retardant overalls before you start in on me.
JamesMaissen 04-06-07, 02:15 PM	Maybe in 4.0 they will make it so if you can Finesse the weapon you cant Power Attack with it. Maybe they'll simply make them combat options rather than feats. And to Jstorrie, your build isn't rules compliant. EWP requires a +1 BAB. You'll need to swap it and power attack (though likely you'll retrain into power attack as you won't have a BAB at 1st level). Which isn't to comment on my opinions of it in general. -James
jstorrie 04-06-07, 02:49 PM	Good catch. Having to put up with a useless Power Attack for your first level is hardly crippling, thankfully; no retraining is really necessary.
boolean 04-08-07, 01:55 AM	Good catch. Having to put up with a useless Power Attack for your first level is hardly crippling, thankfully; no retraining is really necessary. It's not necessary, but you could take advantage of the retraining rules by taking something like Toughness at 1st level, and retraining it into Power Attack at 2nd or 3rd. (At 2nd level your attack bonus is pretty low. You've got +1 BA so you could use PA, but you probably wouldn't. So it might be worth holding off retraining until 3rd.)
ithardin 04-08-07, 04:10 PM	The Elven Courtblade uses any feats you also have for a greatsword (if I am remembering this correctly) so I would suggest that other then EWP I would have your other Courtblade feats as Greatsword feats, that way if you come across access to a really nifty Greatsword you can take advantage of it. I know that will be the rare occasion where a finesse-wielding PC would want to use a Greatsword, but you would have proficiency (Swashbuckler), power attack, weapon focus, etc, etc.
jstorrie 04-08-07, 05:46 PM	Clever idea. I don't see any reason why not to take Weapon Focus and Specialization in Greatsword, you're right.
Gallaway 04-09-07, 11:08 PM	alternatively .. consider improved weapon familiarity
jstorrie 04-09-07, 11:58 PM	It's not going to do much good for you as a human - and if you go as an elf the feats don't line up as nicely (you have to delay Weapon Focus for quite a long time, can't pick up Power Critical, etc.) And, of course, there's the experience penalty problem. So Improved Weapon Familiarity is definitely not a viable option.
bitznarf 04-10-07, 12:01 AM	alternatively .. consider improved weapon familiarity Problems can crop up should you get reincarnated and other possible table variations surrounding that rule. I would recommend against it, unless it does actually help the build in a significant manner.
Gwumph 04-10-07, 12:39 AM	Lachlaran, you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work?
clannagh 04-10-07, 01:05 AM	Lachlaran, you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work? That would be the two levels of Champon of Corellan doing that. Only works when weilding a few specific weapons.
LachlarlanIII 04-10-07, 10:48 AM	Lachlaran, you mentioned being able to add DEX to damage. How does that work? Champion of Corellon 2 gives the ability to add your Dex modifier to damage while weilding "elven" weapons. These include the longsword, rapier, courtblade, thinblade, and lightblade. I think it also includes the scimitar. You only get to add the damage if the monster isn't immune to sneak attack and crits though. In my above build, I can add Int, Dex and Strength while wielding a courtblade.
clannagh 04-10-07, 11:36 PM	In my above build, I can add Int, Dex and Strength while wielding a courtblade. If you had a level of a turning class you could take Divine Might (CW) and then be adding Int, Dex, Strength and Charisma for a round :) I am not aware of anything that adds Con or Wisdom to damage though.
jstorrie 04-11-07, 12:33 AM	Battlesmith adds Wisdom to warhammers, but let's not get ridiculous, here!
LachlarlanIII 04-11-07, 09:30 AM	Battlesmith adds Wisdom to warhammers, but let's not get ridiculous, here! It's either Dex or Wis I'm afraid. The CoC's ability doesn't apply to any bludgeoning weapons.