Firgunn, the Pyromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Firgunn, the Pyromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kyros_the_spawnslayer
09-11-07, 02:21 AM This is another character idea I am play on giving a try. Firgunn is a dwarven envoker that feels that becoming more one with fire makes him a better smithy. Also he loses nothing more than blast his enemies with a strong gout of flame.

starting stats
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 8
Cha 6 (he got a little burnt up now and again)

Class Composition: Envoker 5/Elemental Savant (fire) 10

Feats
Maximize Spell
Energy Subsitution (fire)
Fiery Burst (to never run out of fire power as long as I keep one fire spell uncast)
Explosive Spell
Metamagic School Focus (envocation)
Sculpt Spell
Energy Admixture (fire) (more bang for my flaming buck)

Spells Forbidden Schools: Necromancy & Enchantment
kinda a lot to pick from.

So any other suggestions for this little "fire bug" blaster?
_metz_
09-11-07, 07:39 AM First, Improved Familiar doesn't get you the fire elemental Familiar, only the first table. Pseudo dragons, etc. (Have gone all the way with this particular one, my mate had one it got banned)

He also has a Sorceror Elemental Savant.

You need to have a LOT of energy substitution rods to pull it off.

I would suggest changing the stats to:

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 8
Cha 6

You can make a cloak of charisma. You need to max your int.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
09-11-07, 10:03 AM Alright then I guess I will drop any chance of getting Tinder (Firgunn's fire elemental familiar I had planned for him). Also I didn't max out Int from the get go because with 5 levels of Envoker and 10 levels of Elemental Savant I would only be able to cast 7th level spells if I remember correctly. I also would maybe try to push in a level of Archmage for the ability to change the energy type at will, but that would mean more levels of enovker, and less of the savant.
Iswald
09-11-07, 10:58 AM You can use improved familiar from Complete Scoundrel to gain a mephit (any) as a familiar (caster level 7).
_metz_
09-11-07, 11:05 AM Alright then I guess I will drop any chance of getting Tinder (Firgunn's fire elemental familiar I had planned for him). Also I didn't max out Int from the get go because with 5 levels of Envoker and 10 levels of Elemental Savant I would only be able to cast 7th level spells if I remember correctly. I also would maybe try to push in a level of Archmage for the ability to change the energy type at will, but that would mean more levels of enovker, and less of the savant.

max int isn't for the 7th level spells.

Its for DCs, Bonus Spells, Skill Points, Languages, Free Spells...

TRUST me, its a really good thing to max. Hope for a book of learning, and end up with Int 28...
kyros_the_spawnslayer
09-11-07, 11:32 AM Alright I will keep that in mind. But I have to ask is the specialist wizard (giving up access to 3 schools of magic instead of 2) shown in the alternate class ability section in CoM allowed, cause that would mean even more blasting fun.
_metz_
09-11-07, 12:04 PM Alright I will keep that in mind. But I have to ask is the specialist wizard shown in the class alterantes in CoM allowed, cause that would mean even more blasting fun.

Only with Campaign documentation. If it is not listed in the LGCS, then you need to have an AR giving you access.

Same with everything in the campaign.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
09-11-07, 08:57 PM Alright I made the changes to the OP.
UMiskatonic
09-11-07, 10:01 PM Do you already have a Bright Sands character? Because bright Sands characters get access to Searing Spell, which is a +1 metamagic feat that bypasses fire resistance, and even does half damage to fire-immune creatures.

Also, there is access to Bonded Summoner out there. That will get you a fire elemental cohort.

Maximize is much worse than Empower, only a +2 adjust.

Remember, if you want to focus on orbs and rays, you'll need point blank and precise, and can worry less about DCs. If you're a saving throw guy, the reverse is true.
KarmaInferno
09-12-07, 09:03 AM It is possible to re-train out of point blank and precise shot later, when your ranged touch attack is high enough to compensate for the penalties.

I've been thinking of doing that next couple of levels on my warmage, as my to-hit bonuses have been resulting in me getting touch attack results way higher than I need to hit stuff in most cases.

Although... monks give me trouble. Stupid monks and their high touch ACs.

-karma
_metz_
09-12-07, 09:09 AM It is possible to re-train out of point blank and precise shot later, when your ranged touch attack is high enough to compensate for the penalties.

I've been thinking of doing that next couple of levels on my warmage, as my to-hit bonuses have been resulting in me getting touch attack results way higher than I need to hit stuff in most cases.

Although... monks give me trouble. Stupid monks and their high touch ACs.

-karma

I have seen several AC 30ish touch AC characters at APLs 10 and above. Not just monks. I wouldn't retrain unless you have a +10 without it at least when you hit those levels, but then again, you may fight other types of beastiesto me...
KarmaInferno
09-12-07, 09:27 AM Yeah, my touch attack is like +15 right now, I think? Don't have my stuff with me.

And I have other options besides touch attack spells for those high touch AC opponents.

I love Otto's Irresistable Dance.

"Dance, my meat puppet! Dance for my pleasure!"

:D

-karma
TWG_Prometheus
09-12-07, 11:00 AM I didn't read every post in detail, but has anyone mentioned Blistering Spell from the PHBII yet? It would be a nice addition for a fire-focused Wizard/Sorcerer.
Hariman
09-16-07, 11:24 PM I forget if it's open or NONC, but Piercing Evocation lets up to 10 points of your evocation spells bypass resistance and immunity as untyped damage.

Also, you'll get far more mileage out of empower spell with metamagic school focus than you will with maximize spell.
jstorrie
09-17-07, 02:15 AM Be a conjurer, not an evoker–the level 4 Orb of (Element)s all have status effects that it'll be great to crank the DCs out of, and there are a fair number of other good energy damage conjuration spells–Arc of Lightning, Ice Knife (is this closed yet?), Sleet Storm (Ash Storm?), and the Lesser Orbs.
Hariman
09-17-07, 10:36 AM Be a conjurer, not an evoker–the level 4 Orb of (Element)s all have status effects that it'll be great to crank the DCs out of, and there are a fair number of other good energy damage conjuration spells–Arc of Lightning, Ice Knife (is this closed yet?), Sleet Storm (Ash Storm?), and the Lesser Orbs.

Don't forget Blast of Flame and Vitriolic Sphere.

Although Vitriolic Sphere requires a high DC or levels in spellwarp sniper, as 2/3rds of it's damage requires a failed save. Or no save, if it's spellwarped.

They're both conjuration and no spell resistance, so many a monster will fall to them when other spells fail.
jhorred
09-18-07, 12:50 PM My thoughts from playing my 10th level dwarven evoker from the brightsands.

My stats were 12,10,16,16,12,6 (ish) and I took Martial Weapon Proficiency Dwarven Waraxe at first. (He's a dwarf first, wizard second.) I took illusion and necromancy as opposed. He's not afraid to get close to enemy and he still ocasionally swings the axe. Heck, I've Benign transposed myself into a grapple or two.....

I tended toward the area spells as opposed to the ray spells as I tended to miss with them frequently. (A higher dex wouldn't have help when I rolled many 3's and 5's.....) I still hardly ever hit with both scorching rays.

For Feats I took both Spell focus feats to increase my save DCs since most of my damage spells have saves. I had energy substitution(fire) but I think I retrained it. I'd encourage a crafting feat especially since the TU rule. Also, don't discount jstorrie's advice about conjuration spells, I have several of them I almost always memorize, blast of flame and blast of sand are two common ones.

As far as being the elemantal savant, I considered it as well. But I decided that being able to cast spells of several energy types was advantageous, though 75%+ of my damage spells are fire spells. (At the same time I do have fiery spell to help with the fire resistant sort as well.) I figured he may prefer fire, but he's the practical sort.
copper_wyrmling
09-20-07, 10:49 PM I have seen several AC 30ish touch AC characters at APLs 10 and above. Not just monks. I wouldn't retrain unless you have a +10 without it at least when you hit those levels, but then again, you may fight other types of beastiesto me...

I've seen them, but rarely - I think my L14 sorc's fought two, in her entire career. There was the dreamstealer will-o-wisp in Frozen Spire (Year 4 Core) and the superadvanced dread wraith in Blighted Star (Year 5 NMR), and that's about it. Of course, I may not have noticed high touch ACs on corporeal opponents, because my sorcerer's usual reaction to Medium or smaller corporeal opponents is:
*shining eyes*
"Really? Truly?"
*Azrien casts Sculpted Evard's Black Tentacles*

It's also important to remember that you can ignore the melee penalty if any of the opponent's squares are at least 10ft away from your friends. You can pretty much always zap Huge creatures without the -4, and often Larges (although you may have to move).

(Also, Otto's Irresistible Dance is still a touch attack, just melee touch rather than ranged.)
_metz_
09-21-07, 02:34 AM I've seen them, but rarely - I think my L14 sorc's fought two, in her entire career. There was the dreamstealer will-o-wisp in Frozen Spire (Year 4 Core) and the superadvanced dread wraith in Blighted Star (Year 5 NMR), and that's about it. Of course, I may not have noticed high touch ACs on corporeal opponents, because my sorcerer's usual reaction to Medium or smaller corporeal opponents is:
*shining eyes*
"Really? Truly?"
*Azrien casts Sculpted Evard's Black Tentacles*

It's also important to remember that you can ignore the melee penalty if any of the opponent's squares are at least 10ft away from your friends. You can pretty much always zap Huge creatures without the -4, and often Larges (although you may have to move).

(Also, Otto's Irresistible Dance is still a touch attack, just melee touch rather than ranged.)

I have seen about 6 recently. As low as APL 10.

I feel its ALWAYS better safe than sorry if you are a warmage, and you almost completely rely on ranged attacks. As I said, if you have a decent bonus, than no worries.

Can you cite the source for the 'if one person is more than 10ft away' thing? I haven't actually seen that rule in writing myself. I was not aware it was one.
copper_wyrmling
09-21-07, 09:44 AM I have seen about 6 recently. As low as APL 10.

I feel its ALWAYS better safe than sorry if you are a warmage, and you almost completely rely on ranged attacks. As I said, if you have a decent bonus, than no worries.

Can you cite the source for the 'if one person is more than 10ft away' thing? I haven't actually seen that rule in writing myself. I was not aware it was one.

Of the two I've seen, one was at APL 6 and one was at APL 12 (not sure how the latter scaled down).

The source for the "ignore penalty if friendlies are 10ft away from the target square" rule is p.140 of the PHB, the same place the rule for firing into melee is described in the first place.
_metz_
09-21-07, 10:02 AM Of the two I've seen, one was at APL 6 and one was at APL 12 (not sure how the latter scaled down).

The source for the "ignore penalty if friendlies are 10ft away from the target square" rule is p.140 of the PHB, the same place the rule for firing into melee is described in the first place.

Hmm, I have had several DMs rule that if the beasties threatened each other then they were considered in combat. Or even if one threatened the other. Thats a good reference to know.

(I really should have bought the PHB rather than learning the rules via SRD and experience lol, oh well, heres hoping for 4th edition)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyros_the_spawnslayer 09-11-07, 02:21 AM	This is another character idea I am play on giving a try. Firgunn is a dwarven envoker that feels that becoming more one with fire makes him a better smithy. Also he loses nothing more than blast his enemies with a strong gout of flame. starting stats Str 8 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 6 (he got a little burnt up now and again) Class Composition: Envoker 5/Elemental Savant (fire) 10 Feats Maximize Spell Energy Subsitution (fire) Fiery Burst (to never run out of fire power as long as I keep one fire spell uncast) Explosive Spell Metamagic School Focus (envocation) Sculpt Spell Energy Admixture (fire) (more bang for my flaming buck) Spells Forbidden Schools: Necromancy & Enchantment kinda a lot to pick from. So any other suggestions for this little "fire bug" blaster?
_metz_ 09-11-07, 07:39 AM	First, Improved Familiar doesn't get you the fire elemental Familiar, only the first table. Pseudo dragons, etc. (Have gone all the way with this particular one, my mate had one it got banned) He also has a Sorceror Elemental Savant. You need to have a LOT of energy substitution rods to pull it off. I would suggest changing the stats to: Str 8 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 6 You can make a cloak of charisma. You need to max your int.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 09-11-07, 10:03 AM	Alright then I guess I will drop any chance of getting Tinder (Firgunn's fire elemental familiar I had planned for him). Also I didn't max out Int from the get go because with 5 levels of Envoker and 10 levels of Elemental Savant I would only be able to cast 7th level spells if I remember correctly. I also would maybe try to push in a level of Archmage for the ability to change the energy type at will, but that would mean more levels of enovker, and less of the savant.
Iswald 09-11-07, 10:58 AM	You can use improved familiar from Complete Scoundrel to gain a mephit (any) as a familiar (caster level 7).
_metz_ 09-11-07, 11:05 AM	Alright then I guess I will drop any chance of getting Tinder (Firgunn's fire elemental familiar I had planned for him). Also I didn't max out Int from the get go because with 5 levels of Envoker and 10 levels of Elemental Savant I would only be able to cast 7th level spells if I remember correctly. I also would maybe try to push in a level of Archmage for the ability to change the energy type at will, but that would mean more levels of enovker, and less of the savant. max int isn't for the 7th level spells. Its for DCs, Bonus Spells, Skill Points, Languages, Free Spells... TRUST me, its a really good thing to max. Hope for a book of learning, and end up with Int 28...
kyros_the_spawnslayer 09-11-07, 11:32 AM	Alright I will keep that in mind. But I have to ask is the specialist wizard (giving up access to 3 schools of magic instead of 2) shown in the alternate class ability section in CoM allowed, cause that would mean even more blasting fun.
_metz_ 09-11-07, 12:04 PM	Alright I will keep that in mind. But I have to ask is the specialist wizard shown in the class alterantes in CoM allowed, cause that would mean even more blasting fun. Only with Campaign documentation. If it is not listed in the LGCS, then you need to have an AR giving you access. Same with everything in the campaign.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 09-11-07, 08:57 PM	Alright I made the changes to the OP.
UMiskatonic 09-11-07, 10:01 PM	Do you already have a Bright Sands character? Because bright Sands characters get access to Searing Spell, which is a +1 metamagic feat that bypasses fire resistance, and even does half damage to fire-immune creatures. Also, there is access to Bonded Summoner out there. That will get you a fire elemental cohort. Maximize is much worse than Empower, only a +2 adjust. Remember, if you want to focus on orbs and rays, you'll need point blank and precise, and can worry less about DCs. If you're a saving throw guy, the reverse is true.
KarmaInferno 09-12-07, 09:03 AM	It is possible to re-train out of point blank and precise shot later, when your ranged touch attack is high enough to compensate for the penalties. I've been thinking of doing that next couple of levels on my warmage, as my to-hit bonuses have been resulting in me getting touch attack results way higher than I need to hit stuff in most cases. Although... monks give me trouble. Stupid monks and their high touch ACs. -karma
_metz_ 09-12-07, 09:09 AM	It is possible to re-train out of point blank and precise shot later, when your ranged touch attack is high enough to compensate for the penalties. I've been thinking of doing that next couple of levels on my warmage, as my to-hit bonuses have been resulting in me getting touch attack results way higher than I need to hit stuff in most cases. Although... monks give me trouble. Stupid monks and their high touch ACs. -karma I have seen several AC 30ish touch AC characters at APLs 10 and above. Not just monks. I wouldn't retrain unless you have a +10 without it at least when you hit those levels, but then again, you may fight other types of beastiesto me...
KarmaInferno 09-12-07, 09:27 AM	Yeah, my touch attack is like +15 right now, I think? Don't have my stuff with me. And I have other options besides touch attack spells for those high touch AC opponents. I love Otto's Irresistable Dance. "Dance, my meat puppet! Dance for my pleasure!" :D -karma
TWG_Prometheus 09-12-07, 11:00 AM	I didn't read every post in detail, but has anyone mentioned Blistering Spell from the PHBII yet? It would be a nice addition for a fire-focused Wizard/Sorcerer.
Hariman 09-16-07, 11:24 PM	I forget if it's open or NONC, but Piercing Evocation lets up to 10 points of your evocation spells bypass resistance and immunity as untyped damage. Also, you'll get far more mileage out of empower spell with metamagic school focus than you will with maximize spell.
jstorrie 09-17-07, 02:15 AM	Be a conjurer, not an evoker–the level 4 Orb of (Element)s all have status effects that it'll be great to crank the DCs out of, and there are a fair number of other good energy damage conjuration spells–Arc of Lightning, Ice Knife (is this closed yet?), Sleet Storm (Ash Storm?), and the Lesser Orbs.
Hariman 09-17-07, 10:36 AM	Be a conjurer, not an evoker–the level 4 Orb of (Element)s all have status effects that it'll be great to crank the DCs out of, and there are a fair number of other good energy damage conjuration spells–Arc of Lightning, Ice Knife (is this closed yet?), Sleet Storm (Ash Storm?), and the Lesser Orbs. Don't forget Blast of Flame and Vitriolic Sphere. Although Vitriolic Sphere requires a high DC or levels in spellwarp sniper, as 2/3rds of it's damage requires a failed save. Or no save, if it's spellwarped. They're both conjuration and no spell resistance, so many a monster will fall to them when other spells fail.
jhorred 09-18-07, 12:50 PM	My thoughts from playing my 10th level dwarven evoker from the brightsands. My stats were 12,10,16,16,12,6 (ish) and I took Martial Weapon Proficiency Dwarven Waraxe at first. (He's a dwarf first, wizard second.) I took illusion and necromancy as opposed. He's not afraid to get close to enemy and he still ocasionally swings the axe. Heck, I've Benign transposed myself into a grapple or two..... I tended toward the area spells as opposed to the ray spells as I tended to miss with them frequently. (A higher dex wouldn't have help when I rolled many 3's and 5's.....) I still hardly ever hit with both scorching rays. For Feats I took both Spell focus feats to increase my save DCs since most of my damage spells have saves. I had energy substitution(fire) but I think I retrained it. I'd encourage a crafting feat especially since the TU rule. Also, don't discount jstorrie's advice about conjuration spells, I have several of them I almost always memorize, blast of flame and blast of sand are two common ones. As far as being the elemantal savant, I considered it as well. But I decided that being able to cast spells of several energy types was advantageous, though 75%+ of my damage spells are fire spells. (At the same time I do have fiery spell to help with the fire resistant sort as well.) I figured he may prefer fire, but he's the practical sort.
copper_wyrmling 09-20-07, 10:49 PM	I have seen several AC 30ish touch AC characters at APLs 10 and above. Not just monks. I wouldn't retrain unless you have a +10 without it at least when you hit those levels, but then again, you may fight other types of beastiesto me... I've seen them, but rarely - I think my L14 sorc's fought two, in her entire career. There was the dreamstealer will-o-wisp in Frozen Spire (Year 4 Core) and the superadvanced dread wraith in Blighted Star (Year 5 NMR), and that's about it. Of course, I may not have noticed high touch ACs on corporeal opponents, because my sorcerer's usual reaction to Medium or smaller corporeal opponents is: shining eyes "Really? Truly?" Azrien casts Sculpted Evard's Black Tentacles It's also important to remember that you can ignore the melee penalty if any of the opponent's squares are at least 10ft away from your friends. You can pretty much always zap Huge creatures without the -4, and often Larges (although you may have to move). (Also, Otto's Irresistible Dance is still a touch attack, just melee touch rather than ranged.)
_metz_ 09-21-07, 02:34 AM	I've seen them, but rarely - I think my L14 sorc's fought two, in her entire career. There was the dreamstealer will-o-wisp in Frozen Spire (Year 4 Core) and the superadvanced dread wraith in Blighted Star (Year 5 NMR), and that's about it. Of course, I may not have noticed high touch ACs on corporeal opponents, because my sorcerer's usual reaction to Medium or smaller corporeal opponents is: shining eyes "Really? Truly?" Azrien casts Sculpted Evard's Black Tentacles It's also important to remember that you can ignore the melee penalty if any of the opponent's squares are at least 10ft away from your friends. You can pretty much always zap Huge creatures without the -4, and often Larges (although you may have to move). (Also, Otto's Irresistible Dance is still a touch attack, just melee touch rather than ranged.) I have seen about 6 recently. As low as APL 10. I feel its ALWAYS better safe than sorry if you are a warmage, and you almost completely rely on ranged attacks. As I said, if you have a decent bonus, than no worries. Can you cite the source for the 'if one person is more than 10ft away' thing? I haven't actually seen that rule in writing myself. I was not aware it was one.
copper_wyrmling 09-21-07, 09:44 AM	I have seen about 6 recently. As low as APL 10. I feel its ALWAYS better safe than sorry if you are a warmage, and you almost completely rely on ranged attacks. As I said, if you have a decent bonus, than no worries. Can you cite the source for the 'if one person is more than 10ft away' thing? I haven't actually seen that rule in writing myself. I was not aware it was one. Of the two I've seen, one was at APL 6 and one was at APL 12 (not sure how the latter scaled down). The source for the "ignore penalty if friendlies are 10ft away from the target square" rule is p.140 of the PHB, the same place the rule for firing into melee is described in the first place.
_metz_ 09-21-07, 10:02 AM	Of the two I've seen, one was at APL 6 and one was at APL 12 (not sure how the latter scaled down). The source for the "ignore penalty if friendlies are 10ft away from the target square" rule is p.140 of the PHB, the same place the rule for firing into melee is described in the first place. Hmm, I have had several DMs rule that if the beasties threatened each other then they were considered in combat. Or even if one threatened the other. Thats a good reference to know. (I really should have bought the PHB rather than learning the rules via SRD and experience lol, oh well, heres hoping for 4th edition)