Flying Archer... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flying Archer... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Reneshat
11-07-07, 04:28 AM I have a character that is based on riding a trained Dire Bat Animal companion, and is an archer. Initially, it was just a Highest Attack possible/most damage with each shot build, but I decided to dip beast master for the Dire Bat. Here is the build to give you an idea.

Wood Elf

Str 18
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 8

1 Ranger- Point Blank Shot
2 Fighter- Precise Shot
3 Ranger- Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
4 Fighter- Weapon Focus (Longbow), Dex bump
5 Fighter
6 Fighter- Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Manyshot*
7 Beastmaster
8 Fighter- Dex Bump
9 Fighter- Ranged Weapon Master (piercing), Improved Rapid Shot*

I chose Manyshot because I wanted to the +2 to hit from Improved Rapid, and I also thought additional choice to fire after moving around corners and the like would be beneficial. However moving to a flying mount makes Manyshot relatively worthless, which means I'm dumping two feats into an additional +2, when I could instead take Plunging Shot which would give me an average of +3.5 damage per arrow, and I could then pick up the Quick Draw I dropped for Skill Focus (Handle Animal.) I wouldn't be picking up Quick Draw until 9th with that choice though, so I'm not sure it would be worth it.

Then again, I would be assuming my character even gets to 9th with LG ending. Sure we are playing every week, but my character is only just about to hit level 4, so maybe planning as far as 9th level is foolish. What do you think?
Timlagor
11-07-07, 09:20 AM I think planning that far ahead is a good idea.
You seem to have a pretty good plan.
You might take a look at Woodland Archer (RotW) though as an alternative to Plunging or Quickdraw. You probably don't need quickdraw very much as you can generally walk around with a bow in hand but there are definitely occasions when it would be useful.

Manyshot would still be handy in Surprise Rounds which happen pretty frequently and you are likely to get to act in if you have kept your Spot ranks up (possibly through retraining)
_metz_
11-07-07, 10:40 AM Have you considered cragtop archer?

2 levels of it could be very useful if you are constantly higher than your oppenent (ie: mounted on a bat) I am not sure if high ground is defined though, and whether being on a flying mount gives it to you in this case...

(I personally would, but not everyone might)
kjenks
11-07-07, 08:52 PM Four levels of druid will get you airborne with better skills, spells and abilities. The trade-off is that you'd lose one point of BAB compared to your build. You could make up for that with spells and the extra feat you don't have to spend (Skill Focus (Handle Animal)).

Open archer-oriented druid spells include:
Camouflage
Hawkeye
Low-Light Vision
Raptor's Sight
Traveler’s Mount

Embrace the Wild
Listening Lorecall
Summon Dire Hawk
Woodland Veil

I wouldn't go past druid level 4 because you don't gain another BAB at druid 5.
JamesMaissen
11-07-07, 09:01 PM You probably don't need quickdraw very much as you can generally walk around with a bow in hand but there are definitely occasions when it would be useful.

Quickdraw is great for thrown weapons. For an archer this is normally alchemicals for when they either need touch attacks or to do specialty damage (such as tanglefoot bags, nets, or just elemental/holy water damage).

The gravy comes in with being able to swap bows and to not need to advertise being an archer from the start, but rather walking around with a reach weapon looking like someone that would have combat reflexes (and perhaps steadfast boots with that longspear) so as to avoid a charge before having time to react.

-James
Reneshat
11-09-07, 12:37 AM The point of Quickdraw was because the regions around here are real pains about walking around with weapons in hand. I thought about the Druid way, but I would essentially be losing a feat to do it, on top of losing a BAB, and getting weapon specialization later, and thus getting weapon mastery later, and so on. Woodland Archer was one of the first feats I looked at, but if the game goes long enough (if I get enough playing in before the end of 08), I'm planning on Improved Precise, which seems to cover a lot of the same ground, only better.

I'm one module away from 4th, so it would still be too late to go back and change the feat I blew on Skill Focus (Handle Animal) without retraining. The only problem with Cragtop Archer is that it requires two feats I had no intention of taking. I wouldn't even be able to take it until higher levels. Still I will consider it. Thanks for all the input.
Tonus
11-12-07, 05:09 PM Woodland Archer was one of the first feats I looked at, but if the game goes long enough (if I get enough playing in before the end of 08), I'm planning on Improved Precise, which seems to cover a lot of the same ground, only better.

All I can say is my 7th level archer feels that Woodland Archer is the best feat ever. That one feat has vastly improved my consistency, and since I can't power attack for the really big hit, consistency is what I'm bringing to the table.

You may be right -- Woodland Archer may eventually be supplanted by Improved Precise Shot. I dunno, I'm not there yet. There is a lot of ground to cover before 11th level though, and with the end of the campaign looming I'm not sure that I will get there. If I do, there is always the retraining option. In the meantime, I couldn't be happier with Woodland Archer.
Timlagor
11-12-07, 05:35 PM I'd definitely consider retraining Woodland Archer away once you get Improved Precise Shot but that's 5-6 levels of play over which it could prove well worth the cost of retraining.
solbergb
11-13-07, 06:04 PM Nah...woodland archer at any level adds +4 to hit after you miss. That's the thing that makes it worthwhile. It evens out bad luck and makes "unhittable" targets more hittable.

The pierce the foliage is just a nice side-benefit. Also Pierce the Foliage works on total concealment, and improved precise does not.

The two feats complement each other. They don't compete.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reneshat 11-07-07, 04:28 AM	I have a character that is based on riding a trained Dire Bat Animal companion, and is an archer. Initially, it was just a Highest Attack possible/most damage with each shot build, but I decided to dip beast master for the Dire Bat. Here is the build to give you an idea. Wood Elf Str 18 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 8 Cha 8 1 Ranger- Point Blank Shot 2 Fighter- Precise Shot 3 Ranger- Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Handle Animal) 4 Fighter- Weapon Focus (Longbow), Dex bump 5 Fighter 6 Fighter- Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Manyshot* 7 Beastmaster 8 Fighter- Dex Bump 9 Fighter- Ranged Weapon Master (piercing), Improved Rapid Shot* I chose Manyshot because I wanted to the +2 to hit from Improved Rapid, and I also thought additional choice to fire after moving around corners and the like would be beneficial. However moving to a flying mount makes Manyshot relatively worthless, which means I'm dumping two feats into an additional +2, when I could instead take Plunging Shot which would give me an average of +3.5 damage per arrow, and I could then pick up the Quick Draw I dropped for Skill Focus (Handle Animal.) I wouldn't be picking up Quick Draw until 9th with that choice though, so I'm not sure it would be worth it. Then again, I would be assuming my character even gets to 9th with LG ending. Sure we are playing every week, but my character is only just about to hit level 4, so maybe planning as far as 9th level is foolish. What do you think?
Timlagor 11-07-07, 09:20 AM	I think planning that far ahead is a good idea. You seem to have a pretty good plan. You might take a look at Woodland Archer (RotW) though as an alternative to Plunging or Quickdraw. You probably don't need quickdraw very much as you can generally walk around with a bow in hand but there are definitely occasions when it would be useful. Manyshot would still be handy in Surprise Rounds which happen pretty frequently and you are likely to get to act in if you have kept your Spot ranks up (possibly through retraining)
_metz_ 11-07-07, 10:40 AM	Have you considered cragtop archer? 2 levels of it could be very useful if you are constantly higher than your oppenent (ie: mounted on a bat) I am not sure if high ground is defined though, and whether being on a flying mount gives it to you in this case... (I personally would, but not everyone might)
kjenks 11-07-07, 08:52 PM	Four levels of druid will get you airborne with better skills, spells and abilities. The trade-off is that you'd lose one point of BAB compared to your build. You could make up for that with spells and the extra feat you don't have to spend (Skill Focus (Handle Animal)). Open archer-oriented druid spells include: Camouflage Hawkeye Low-Light Vision Raptor's Sight Traveler’s Mount Embrace the Wild Listening Lorecall Summon Dire Hawk Woodland Veil I wouldn't go past druid level 4 because you don't gain another BAB at druid 5.
JamesMaissen 11-07-07, 09:01 PM	You probably don't need quickdraw very much as you can generally walk around with a bow in hand but there are definitely occasions when it would be useful. Quickdraw is great for thrown weapons. For an archer this is normally alchemicals for when they either need touch attacks or to do specialty damage (such as tanglefoot bags, nets, or just elemental/holy water damage). The gravy comes in with being able to swap bows and to not need to advertise being an archer from the start, but rather walking around with a reach weapon looking like someone that would have combat reflexes (and perhaps steadfast boots with that longspear) so as to avoid a charge before having time to react. -James
Reneshat 11-09-07, 12:37 AM	The point of Quickdraw was because the regions around here are real pains about walking around with weapons in hand. I thought about the Druid way, but I would essentially be losing a feat to do it, on top of losing a BAB, and getting weapon specialization later, and thus getting weapon mastery later, and so on. Woodland Archer was one of the first feats I looked at, but if the game goes long enough (if I get enough playing in before the end of 08), I'm planning on Improved Precise, which seems to cover a lot of the same ground, only better. I'm one module away from 4th, so it would still be too late to go back and change the feat I blew on Skill Focus (Handle Animal) without retraining. The only problem with Cragtop Archer is that it requires two feats I had no intention of taking. I wouldn't even be able to take it until higher levels. Still I will consider it. Thanks for all the input.
Tonus 11-12-07, 05:09 PM	Woodland Archer was one of the first feats I looked at, but if the game goes long enough (if I get enough playing in before the end of 08), I'm planning on Improved Precise, which seems to cover a lot of the same ground, only better. All I can say is my 7th level archer feels that Woodland Archer is the best feat ever. That one feat has vastly improved my consistency, and since I can't power attack for the really big hit, consistency is what I'm bringing to the table. You may be right -- Woodland Archer may eventually be supplanted by Improved Precise Shot. I dunno, I'm not there yet. There is a lot of ground to cover before 11th level though, and with the end of the campaign looming I'm not sure that I will get there. If I do, there is always the retraining option. In the meantime, I couldn't be happier with Woodland Archer.
Timlagor 11-12-07, 05:35 PM	I'd definitely consider retraining Woodland Archer away once you get Improved Precise Shot but that's 5-6 levels of play over which it could prove well worth the cost of retraining.
solbergb 11-13-07, 06:04 PM	Nah...woodland archer at any level adds +4 to hit after you miss. That's the thing that makes it worthwhile. It evens out bad luck and makes "unhittable" targets more hittable. The pierce the foliage is just a nice side-benefit. Also Pierce the Foliage works on total concealment, and improved precise does not. The two feats complement each other. They don't compete.