Post/Author/DateTime	Post
_m_ 01-14-07, 05:47 PM	I was thinking (yeah i know, shcok horror) about a wizard geomancer combat character. I was looking through some of the drift abilities, and it seems to me you could make a fairly tanked out combat caster cleric guy. maybe something like Human, high strength, con and primary favoured soul casting stat (its charisma isnt it?) 1 fav soul: power attack, and ehatever the prereq is (wish i had my books on me) 2 wiz 3 fav soul: practised spellcaster favoured soul 4 wiz 5 wiz 6 fav soul: another combat feat 7 fav soul x geomancer. i know its fairly sketchy, but any input wud be nice.
clannagh 01-14-07, 05:58 PM	4. Ruathan 5. Ruathan
_m_ 01-14-07, 06:02 PM	actually, rauthan would be way better, but i have no idea where i could get access to it from.
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 06:32 PM	Geomancer is one of those classes where it is really difficult to make it work. The problem is that until you get to Stage 4-5 drifts, the benefits are pretty minor. And you're not going to get Stage 4 Drifts until a minimum of level 13...
clannagh 01-14-07, 06:57 PM	actually, rauthan would be way better, but i have no idea where i could get access to it from. well looking again I think ruathan cant happen till about 6 or so as for access it would need a special mission
Arvagor 01-14-07, 07:01 PM	well looking again I think ruathan cant happen till about 6 or soRuathar ;) Requirements: BAB +6, OR Any skill 9 ranks, OR Ability to cast 3rd-level spells So a caster can get in after 5th, everybody else after 6th. Damn elves -- what's so special to them about wizards? :P
cycloptic_squirrel 01-14-07, 08:09 PM	Ah the Ruathar. So broken. Can't resist. It definitely belongs on the limited list, but the way I've seen access given out... maybe it's just my region. There was a mod where I didn't feel I did anything spectacular, above and beyond what is generally expected in mods, and access was given. There are also two meta-orgs in Keoland that give it. One I feel access is justified, but the other... it's ridiculously easy. It almost makes a mockery of the meta-org thing. Not that it's much help to you m, as unfortunately I don't think you'll be visiting our fair kingdom anytime soon.
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 08:59 PM	Ah the Ruathar. So broken. Can't resist. It definitely belongs on the limited list, but the way I've seen access given out... maybe it's just my region. There was a mod where I didn't feel I did anything spectacular, above and beyond what is generally expected in mods, and access was given. There are also two meta-orgs in Keoland that give it. One I feel access is justified, but the other... it's ridiculously easy. It almost makes a mockery of the meta-org thing. Not that it's much help to you m, as unfortunately I don't think you'll be visiting our fair kingdom anytime soon. Yeah, Ruathar is spectacularly broken. The entrance prereqs are a joke if you get the special - and then at that point, Ruathar is basically 'all class skills you could possibly want to qualify for your favorite hard to get into PrC' Example: Cleric 5/Ruathar 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 4 - Ruathar is one of the only full advancement PrCs that give Survival as a class skill that doesn't require Survival to get into it. Seeker of the Misty Isle is balanced around the fact you'll likely have to give up a caster level to get into it because of that.
Sieylianna 01-14-07, 09:00 PM	Human, high strength, con and primary favoured soul casting stat (its charisma isnt it?) 1 fav soul: power attack, and ehatever the prereq is (wish i had my books on me) 2 wiz 3 fav soul: practised spellcaster favoured soul 4 wiz 5 wiz 6 fav soul: another combat feat 7 fav soul x geomancer. i know its fairly sketchy, but any input wud be nice. I think you're going to have a hard time making it work. You are looking at high scores for STR, CON, CHA and INT at a minimum. It would also be nice to have a decent dexterity, since you're not going to be able to wear armor for most of your career. I'd say 14 in the above scores and 12 in DEX which leaves you an 8 Wisdom and your save DC will be bad. If you picked one of the deities who uses greatsword, that would help, but I don't think it's viable in LG. Ed
Arvagor 01-14-07, 09:20 PM	Yeah, Ruathar is spectacularly broken. The entrance prereqs are a joke if you get the special - and then at that point, Ruathar is basically 'all class skills you could possibly want to qualify for your favorite hard to get into PrC' Example: Cleric 5/Ruathar 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 4 - Ruathar is one of the only full advancement PrCs that give Survival as a class skill that doesn't require Survival to get into it. Seeker of the Misty Isle is balanced around the fact you'll likely have to give up a caster level to get into it because of that. You know, I hear this argument time and again, and I just don't get it; the class (Ruathar) is no different than cherry-picking any other class to gain skills/abilities/etc. for later advancement. Given your example, I can think of better ways to spend my class levels than dipping into Ruathar. If your heart was that set on getting into the Seekers, then you're better off being a druid for your first 5 levels -- Survival is a class skill, and even though it's cross-class, you can still get your 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion). You're in at 6th level with no diversion into Ruathar...
_m_ 01-14-07, 09:34 PM	I think you're going to have a hard time making it work. You are looking at high scores for STR, CON, CHA and INT at a minimum. It would also be nice to have a decent dexterity, since you're not going to be able to wear armor for most of your career. I'd say 14 in the above scores and 12 in DEX which leaves you an 8 Wisdom and your save DC will be bad. If you picked one of the deities who uses greatsword, that would help, but I don't think it's viable in LG. Ed i dont need high int, i wont be advances the wizard levels at all. just using em for cantrips n crap. mid range con would be ok, as favoured soul and geo both have d8 hit dice, and i can wear a periapt of +2 con, because i dont need wisdom booster. str would be fairly easy. i'm aware it's not an optimal class, but it would make a fairly unique fighter / cleric caster after it got rolling :D
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 10:53 PM	You know, I hear this argument time and again, and I just don't get it; the class (Ruathar) is no different than cherry-picking any other class to gain skills/abilities/etc. for later advancement. Sure it is. It isn't a class. It is a PrC. Most PrCs you actually have opportunity cost to get into and are difficult to get into until 8th level if they have no caster loss. They require certain skills that often involve lots of cross-classing. Ruathar can be entered at 6th. There's almost no opportunity cost to get into it if you have the special. It literally has every important skill for spellcaster PrCs - Diplomacy(used to restrict non-divine casters), Knowledge(used to restrict Sorcs and Favored Souls), Sense Motive(used to restrict certain PrCs from straight casters getting in easily), and Survival(used to restrict Clerics from Druid PrCs). Not to mention, it has the gamut of Hide/Move Silently/Listen/Spot(makes Mindbender cheap for Sorcs). Even Search if you want to get into Geometer without having to cross-class it as a Wizard 5/Ruathar 1/Geometer - you can't get into Geometer until 7th anyway. This is also ignoring that it isn't a weak PrC - it has 2 good saves, fair BAB, low-light vision, is essentially a 6 skill point/level PrC, and gets d6 hp. The 3rd level isn't all that great, but that's okay, because that's when the PrCs that require 4th level spells or 10 ranks in a particular skill open up...
_m_ 01-14-07, 10:57 PM	Sure it is. It isn't a class. It is a PrC. Most PrCs you actually have opportunity cost to get into and are difficult to get into until 8th level if they have no caster loss. They require certain skills that often involve lots of cross-classing. Ruathar can be entered at 6th. There's almost no opportunity cost to get into it if you have the special. It literally has every important skill for spellcaster PrCs - Diplomacy(used to restrict non-divine casters), Knowledge(used to restrict Sorcs and Favored Souls), Sense Motive(used to restrict certain PrCs from straight casters getting in easily), and Survival(used to restrict Clerics from Druid PrCs). Not to mention, it has the gamut of Hide/Move Silently/Listen/Spot(makes Mindbender cheap for Sorcs). Even Search if you want to get into Geometer without having to cross-class it as a Wizard 5/Ruathar 1/Geometer - you can't get into Geometer until 7th anyway. This is also ignoring that it isn't a weak PrC - it has 2 good saves, fair BAB, low-light vision, is essentially a 6 skill point/level PrC, and gets d6 hp. The 3rd level isn't all that great, but that's okay, because that's when the PrCs that require 4th level spells or 10 ranks in a particular skill open up... while thats a good point... how cool is the geomancer :D hehe, i luv derailments. i do it all the time. it always turns out to be more interesting than the original topic.
Mommy was an Orc 01-14-07, 11:02 PM	while thats a good point... how cool is the geomancer :D hehe, i luv derailments. i do it all the time. it always turns out to be more interesting than the original topic. Weren't you the one who said Ruathar would be 'way better' :P
_m_ 01-14-07, 11:10 PM	Weren't you the one who said Ruathar would be 'way better' :P yup. like i said, i love derailments. granted, ruathar WOULD be way better... if i could take it earlier /grin. and ruathar is cheesetastic.
clannagh 01-14-07, 11:39 PM	yup. like i said, i love derailments. granted, ruathar WOULD be way better... if i could take it earlier /grin. and ruathar is cheesetastic. *wonders if these keoland metaorgs require you to stay resident or just play a mod*
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 12:06 AM	*wonders if these keoland metaorgs require you to stay resident or just play a mod* Nope, gotta be a resident. Dreadwalkers and Nudarmilesti. If you go to the Keoland yahoo group, the pdf is there.
cycloptic_squirrel 01-15-07, 04:02 AM	It's worse than that. For the Nudarmilesti you have to live in Sheldomar Valley and play one Keo mod. If you're not an elf, you need a elf organization's favor, but I'm not seeing that as a huge deterrent. :yuck: The Dreadwalkers are pretty restrictive of where you live, how soon you can get to Ruathar, makes you fill out reporting forms, and has penalties if you ever leave. I think having the Ruathar in here works, because it has several in game restrictions and responsibilities. The Nudarmilesti high tier re-quires - 3 - ranks - in - dip-lomacy :banghead: As far as the brokeness of the Ruathar PrC itself, would you rather go with a sorcerer/wizard to hit that PrC you're aiming for or would you rather take a class that has better hp, better skills, better saves, and better abilities - all at no cost to your spell progression? Unless you really have some great plan for your familiar, I having a hard time thinking of a reason not to take it, given the chance. Why, why, why? :nonono:
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 03:10 PM	Yeah, I hear what you are saying. However, there's two things going on. One is that Ruathar is pretty good. The second is that cleric and sorceror advancement is TERRIBLE. You get nothing. Nothing at all. There is absolutely NO reason to be a sorceror 20, because every spellcasting prestige class is better than advancing as a sorceror. Cleric is the same way, unless you are excited about turning undead. And plenty of cleric PrCs advance that too. I'd like to see that addressed in 4.0.
jstorrie 01-15-07, 04:10 PM	I'm with MWaO on the Ruathar issue - it's an unbalanced PrC and a little too good for LG. Ruathar is sort of sneaky in that it isn't as flashy as Shock Trooper or Divine Metamagic, but it has absolutely no cost, whereas those feats require the PC to give up something (feat slots, actions during combat, taking penalties, &c.) I'd like to see Ruathar go NPC-only, but it's been handed out so much and so often that the Circle will probably be a bit leery of requiring so many rebuilds. To get back on topic - skip Geomancer. It only comes into its own around level 14, which is just not good for LG. Geomancers are less powerful than Vigilantes in Living Greyhawk, if that tells you anything.