Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dr.Cornelius 06-15-07, 05:57 AM	I have been working on a Gish Necromancer with metamagic but just can't get the feats to work out. The idea is a Barbarian Specialist Wizard (Necromancy) that can mix it up in melee and also cast strong Necro spells like Ray of Enfeeblement, False Life, Vampiric Touch and Enervation. Adding a level of Barbarian to the standard Gish build may not be optimal at higher levels, but is significantly tougher, packs a bit more punch and can Rage to get out of a sticky situation. I really like the idea of Necro metamagic - for example, Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement and Retributive Spell Vampiric Touch. The problem is that the Gish really needs Practiced Spellcaster to bring caster level up to character level. This makes it extremely difficult to fit in all the feats, especially since the two 1st level feats must have no prereqs. Prototype Build: Human Str:16 Dex:14 Con:14 Int:14 Wis:8 Cha:8 Stat bumps to Int Barbarian 1/Necromancer 4/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Necromancer X Weapon: Glaive Armor: Mage Armor then Mithril Chain Shirt with Spellsword at 7th level. Tactics: Mixed melee and casting. Focus on mobility and Necro spells. Feats 1: Retributive Spell 1: Empower Spell 3: Practiced Spellcaster 6: Craft Wonderous Item, Power Attack (Fighter bonus feat) 8: Metamagic School Specialist (Wizard bonus feat) 9: Arcane Strike Spells 1: Mage Armor, Shocking Grasp, True Strike, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Ray of Enfeeblement 2: Bladeweave (swift), False Life, Swift Fly, Whirling Blade 3: Vampiric Touch, Blink, Haste 4: Dimension Door, Enervation, Trollshape Ideally the build would have Sudden Empower at 1st level, but it is NONC access. A big downside is Retributive Spell does nothing until 4th level and Empower Spell does nothing until 6th. I suppose the obvious answer is to start with a couple of generic feats like Improved Initiative and Improved Toughness then retrain to Retributive and Empower. The build also does not have enough feats for Combat Casting or Skill Focus(Concentration). That could make it difficult to hit the concentration checks required for Retributive Spell. Any ideas on how to improve the build are appreciated, especially with metamagic or casting feats.
_metz_ 06-15-07, 07:59 AM	Have you thought about the Rage mage prestige class? 2 levels of it may be worth your while. Its not fantastic, but sounds like what you are looking for character wise.
UMiskatonic 06-15-07, 09:15 AM	Barbarian/Hexblade might be another way to go. You'll be great in melee, (full BAB, good HP) and have that lovely curse ability, plus all the other hexblade spells. And do yourself a favor and look at Eldritch Knight. It's really the standard for gish builds, you should be doing that well. And why not a scythe? Raging crits will be super powerful, and it really just screams "Who's got two thumbs and is the master of Necromancy? This guy"
TWG_Prometheus 06-15-07, 10:51 AM	My vote is to ditch the Fighter and Spellsword levels. A Barbarian isn't typically all that interested in armor class anyway, and they can use Mage Armor spells to close the gap. I'd also recommend losing Empowered Spell and Metamagic School focus. They're not worth the two feats. Empowered in particular would feel awkward in Necromancy. You're multiplying 1d6 Ray of Enfeeblement rolls and 1d6/2 caster level Vampiric Touch rolls instead of 10d6 Fireballs. Not worth it in my book. A Gish has relatively restricted spellcasting, and even with Metamagic School Focus, you're still adding a +1 level adjustment to the spell. You'll need 5th level spells before Empowered Enervation is even an option. Metamagic School Focus might be worth keeping around for Retributive Spell, but if you need a feat to lose for Practised Spellcaster (and you do) then my vote is Empowered Spell. Do Barbarian 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight X. Eldritch Knight will get you back the Fighter feat you're trying to pick up. Although I wouldn't recommend it for most specialist Wizards, I'm thinking that this guy should drop Abjuration. He doesn't seem like he'd be interested in it. Keep Enchantment because you'll want Heroism. Since you'll have some additional defense by way of Necromancy (False Life/Ray of Enfeeblement/Vampiric Touch/Enervation are all Necromancy classics and aid defense) you can probably lose Illusion safely enough. Also consider going Generalist since you won't be casting every round...you can still memorize Necromancy spells for most of your slots.
amnuxoll 06-15-07, 03:02 PM	I'd pick either fighter or barbarian but not both. Practiced Spellcaster is fine but that's not an excuse to not keep your actual spellcasting ability as high as possible. Also, have you thought about Enlightened Fist? :AMN:
Sieylianna 06-15-07, 05:13 PM	IMO, it's hard to call someone with two levels of full BAB a gish. You need to get into Eldritch Knight. If you retrain one of your feats for Heavy Armor proficiency, you can pick up a Spellsword level so you can wear a mithral chain shirt without ASF. After that, or instead of that, you should start EK. Ed
LeeShort 06-15-07, 06:07 PM	the two 1st level feats must have no prereqs. Where'd you get this idea? I've seen any number of human fighter builds that had Mounted, Ride By, and Spirited Charge all at first level, and I'm pretty sure they are legal builds. So either I'm not reading you right, or I'm pretty sure you are wrong.
Morgen 06-16-07, 07:25 PM	A Rage Mage would be a good idea for this class, it'd let you focus some more on your melee classes and you'd still get your max caster level in a majority of your fights in LG.