Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morgen 12-09-06, 05:04 AM	So I've got a new character being forced to be started. My first real attempt at a wizard in LG. Decided to go opposite of my human sorcerer and try some of those other pells that he never gets to cast. Behold! Tumblepaw Tanglebang! Gnome Illusionist 1 10/14/14/16/10/10 Spells: Charm Person Color Spray Comp Lang Enlarge Person Silent Image Sleep Losing Conjuration and Evocation for the challenge of being different and the fact that my Sorcerer is almost 100% dedicated towards those two schools of magic. She's going for Shadowcraft Mage, but I don't really have any other PrC to put her into that I can think up easily. Neutral alignment. So any suggestions or tips for me? I can change her stats, nothing is set to paper. Just to hero forge. What do all you wizards suggest?
Lomiat 12-09-06, 10:45 AM	Evocation is easy enough to give up, but Conjuration is a bummer. You can do without, though at low-levels it will mean that you'll have no damage capabilities. You'll use save-or-die spells (Color Spray) and buff. Provided you can limit yourself to those functions, you should be okay.
DuctShuiTengu 12-09-06, 11:22 AM	No Conjuration also loses you what, in my experience, is one of the staples of a wizard's defensive capabilities: Mage Armor. While at higher levels, you're usually better off using miss-chances to avoid damage, at low levels, this is all but essential to not getting beatten into a pulp, and even as you start getting into higher levels, I've seen enough monks and other unarmored PCs who absolutely love the +4 AC. Not that it isn't doable, mind you, but it is going to be a challenge.
Mommy was an Orc 12-09-06, 12:36 PM	No Conjuration also loses you what, in my experience, is one of the staples of a wizard's defensive capabilities: Mage Armor. While at higher levels, you're usually better off using miss-chances to avoid damage, at low levels, this is all but essential to not getting beatten into a pulp, and even as you start getting into higher levels, I've seen enough monks and other unarmored PCs who absolutely love the +4 AC. Not that it isn't doable, mind you, but it is going to be a challenge. Just as a point, with a Shadowcraft Mage especially, you can use Shadow Conjuration to cast Greater Mage Armor. Doesn't help in the low levels, but at the high levels, that works perfectly well.
Lupo 12-09-06, 02:13 PM	So I've got a new character being forced to be started. My first real attempt at a wizard in LG. Decided to go opposite of my human sorcerer and try some of those other pells that he never gets to cast. Behold! Tumblepaw Tanglebang! Gnome Illusionist 1 10/14/14/16/10/10 Spells: Charm Person Color Spray Comp Lang Enlarge Person Silent Image Sleep Losing Conjuration and Evocation for the challenge of being different and the fact that my Sorcerer is almost 100% dedicated towards those two schools of magic. She's going for Shadowcraft Mage, but I don't really have any other PrC to put her into that I can think up easily. Neutral alignment. So any suggestions or tips for me? I can change her stats, nothing is set to paper. Just to hero forge. What do all you wizards suggest? i wouldn't give up conjuration AND evocation, the first golem or even animated object is likely to crunch you. as a gnome you can get an con 16 for nothing, so why not taking it????? a str 8 might be enough, or a wis 8? a con 16 makes your concentration check easier and gives auto success one level earlier, gives more hp and helps your fort save. for an illusionist, the always infamous fatespinner is a great prestige class, you are relying on save-or-die spells, and every way you can make the save DC harder is good for you. ciao martin m.
Morgen 12-09-06, 03:25 PM	Hmmmm, fatespinner doens't sound too bad. I was hoping for something to get for levels 6 and 7 since I don't get 4th level spells until 7th so I can't join either Fatespinner or Shadowcraft Mage until 8th unless that's wrong. Bah I say to mage armor! It only lasts an hour or two at low levels and that's another spell I have to memorize. Mage armor is nice when you cast it once and get most of the day out of it. May as well say for some bracers or armor or a mithril chain shirt with twilight since that comes up aaaalll the time here in the Shield Lands. Must have seen it at least 60 times I'm sure! I should do 16 con though, that's a good idea... Thanks!
Jay_Ibero_911 12-09-06, 10:41 PM	If you don't mind spending the feat, you could take 2 levels of Divine Oracle to get evasion(Prescient Sense)...end up as Wiz5/DivOracle2/ShadowcraftMage8 before retiring...Other than that there's not much else you could do besides wiz7...
clannagh 12-10-06, 06:42 PM	I am not sure if its worth going 5 levels straight wizzie just to pick up a single metamagic feat The rule of thumb for optimal wizzie/sorceror builds tends to be minimise the number of straight levels and start PrC with classes that add caster levels as early as possible. What about Geometer early on .. or if you are going with fate spinner how about some wild mage to increase the random craziness ?
Jay_Ibero_911 12-10-06, 07:19 PM	I am not sure if its worth going 5 levels straight wizzie just to pick up a single metamagic feat The rule of thumb for optimal wizzie/sorceror builds tends to be minimise the number of straight levels and start PrC with classes that add caster levels as early as possible. What about Geometer early on .. or if you are going with fate spinner how about some wild mage to increase the random craziness ? Uhh...You do know that there aren't any LG PrC's that you can qualify for before 5th level right? And Geometer you can't qualify for until 6th, due the the pre-req of 9 ranks decipher script+knowledge Arcana. He could qualify for Wild Mage after 5th level, but he'd need to get access since the class is Limited...
Lomiat 12-10-06, 11:10 PM	Uhh...You do know that there aren't any LG PrC's that you can qualify for before 5th level right? And Geometer you can't qualify for until 6th, due the the pre-req of 9 ranks decipher script+knowledge Arcana. He could qualify for Wild Mage after 5th level, but he'd need to get access since the class is Limited... I believe the earliest a PC can switch from base class to PrC is at the PC's 5th overall level, as a Church Inquisitor (4 Cleric, 1 Church Inquisitor), provided the player can find access. Anyway, as I DMed the PC earlier today, I happen to know the player took Spell Focus (illusion) for the 1st level feat. This sets him up to give his PC Shadowcraft Mage later, and I think he mentioned something about focusing on Illusion and Necromancy. A good build, then, might head toward Archmage: Wiz 1 - Spell Focus (illusion) Wiz 2 - Wiz 3 - Spell Focus (necromancy) Wiz 4 - Wiz 5 - Craft Wondrous Item Wiz 6 - Greater Spell Focus (illusion) Wiz 7 - Shadow 8 - Shadow 9 - Quicken Spell Shadow 10 - Shadow 11 Shadow 12 - Skill Focus (spellcraft) Fatespinner 13 - Fatespinner 14 - Archmage 15 - feat, TBD
Iswald 12-11-06, 10:39 AM	He could qualify for Wild Mage after 5th level, but he'd need to get access since the class is Limited... I happen to know that the PC could gain meta-org access to wild mage. Whether or not it would fit the PC's RP, I couldn't say. With practiced spellcaster, his illusions could be fairly powerful. But, that'd take feats which could probably be used better with something else.
clannagh 12-12-06, 12:41 AM	Uhh...You do know that there aren't any LG PrC's that you can qualify for before 5th level right? And Geometer you can't qualify for until 6th, due the the pre-req of 9 ranks decipher script+knowledge Arcana. He could qualify for Wild Mage after 5th level, but he'd need to get access since the class is Limited... yeah ... i was getting confused with multiclass characters where you only need one or two spell caster levels before switching to PrC's like Ruathan or Wild Mage .. but clearly in those cases you have levels in another class to qualify you for the PrC so in this case it doesnt work
Morgen 12-12-06, 02:40 AM	I can respect the class of wizard enough to take it all the way to 7th. It gives me a familiar that can speak with animals of it's kind. What familiar to take though. Hmmm, any suggestions?
DuctShuiTengu 12-12-06, 10:49 AM	What familiar to take though. Hmmm, any suggestions? Toad is especially helpful at first level (Most wizards could use the extra 3 hitpoints) though later on, those extra HP become less and less significant. Raven is fun just for its ability to talk (I'm seriously considering a Wood Elf sorcerer with 6 int and a Raven familiar who complains bitterly about being saddled with an idiot) though the bonus to Appraise might not be as useful (though with the Wizardly Int, that bonus could put you in a range where you have a decent chance at making them with little or no training if they ever come up). Weasel and Rat give bonuses to your weaker saving throws (I've yet to find a character who didn't like having better saving throws). For the ones that give bonuses to skills, I'd mostly focus on which ones you're actually helped by the bonus. If you're almost always going to succeed even without the bonus, or fail even with it, the bonus doesn't matter. Beyond that, Hawk or Owl for the spot bonuses can help you get a spell off in the surprise round, though with those being cross-class skills and based off of Wis, the +3 may not be enough to help you (I've known a few wizards who took their first level as Ranger for just that reason. The +2 Fortitude and Reflex saves and extra hitpoints were an added bonus.)
Morgen 12-12-06, 03:30 PM	I was thinking about taking a tiny viper actually, the bonus to my bluff checks could come in handy since I'm burning skill points in the skill cross-class to get into Shadowcraft Mage. :-/
DuctShuiTengu 12-12-06, 03:49 PM	I was thinking about taking a tiny viper actually, the bonus to my bluff checks could come in handy since I'm burning skill points in the skill cross-class to get into Shadowcraft Mage. :-/ As I said, as long as it's a skill that the bonus will actually help you on (which if you're investing in Bluff, it might).
clannagh 12-12-06, 06:26 PM	I was thinking about taking a tiny viper actually, the bonus to my bluff checks could come in handy since I'm burning skill points in the skill cross-class to get into Shadowcraft Mage. :-/ If you have a feat spare and dont mind waiting until level 7 or so .. improved familiar psuedo-dragon is an ok option. You will not have the BAB to get the CW combat familairs.
Morgen 12-12-06, 06:48 PM	Well that's assuming I get access to a psuedodragon somewhere. Not a clue where I'd find such a thing, nothing in my region hands them out at least. Unless that's all just core now? Plus I think I'm going with Lomiat's suggestion of another spell focus for some added DC numbers. Unless of course master specialist out of the complete mage is made core. :3
Jay_Ibero_911 12-12-06, 08:21 PM	Well that's assuming I get access to a psuedodragon somewhere. Not a clue where I'd find such a thing, nothing in my region hands them out at least. Unless that's all just core now? Plus I think I'm going with Lomiat's suggestion of another spell focus for some added DC numbers. Unless of course master specialist out of the complete mage is made core. :3 If you have the Improved Familiar feat and meet the requirements , you can choose any familiar from the improved familiar list in the DMG or Complete Warrior. It's right in the LGCS.
clannagh 12-13-06, 08:39 PM	If you have the Improved Familiar feat and meet the requirements , you can choose any familiar from the improved familiar list in the DMG or Complete Warrior. It's right in the LGCS. Not quite "ANY" familiar :) No evil familiars are allowed ... and you can only choose from the first table from the DMG because the second table (the one with fire elementals) is a "DM's option" list for unusual PC's. Pseudodragon though is legal .. and when buffed can have stupidly high AC and spell resistance.
_m_ 12-18-06, 05:51 PM	Not quite "ANY" familiar :) No evil familiars are allowed ... and you can only choose from the first table from the DMG because the second table (the one with fire elementals) is a "DM's option" list for unusual PC's. Pseudodragon though is legal .. and when buffed can have stupidly high AC and spell resistance. indeed. the combat familiars are hard to get anyway, because unless ur an eldritch knight, ul have a hard time pulling the bab up hi enuf. but yeah, psuedodragons at level 7 (the earliest you can get them) can get up around the 38+ ac mark, have inate SR, telepathy, language, they are just very versatile. i still miss mine.