Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LGMoses 12-13-06, 02:37 PM	We don't have any arcanists that play with our group and we rarely have a healer. I'm the DM for our group so I rarely get to play, but there is another DM that occassionally runs LG. So, I'm making a character that will be helpful in most situations, a bard. I want make him magically focused. So what is a good feat at 1st level for a magically focused bard? Ne ideas?
Mommy was an Orc 12-13-06, 02:46 PM	Improved Initiative is a pretty strong feat for such a bard - you're always going to want to go first so as to do Inspire Courage as your first action until 7th level anyway.
LGMoses 12-13-06, 04:08 PM	Thats a good idea. I was thinking still spell but it'd be best to wait till third level for it. Improved Initiative is a decent spell. I was thinking Magical Aptitude. I'll continue to look at more options. Neone got nemore great ideas.
kenobi65 12-13-06, 04:32 PM	I was thinking still spell but it'd be best to wait till third level for it. IMO, that's a not a great feat choice for a bard, esp. at 1st level. - It cranks the spell level up by one, which means you wouldn't be able to apply it to a 1st level spell until 4th level (when you get 2nd level spells). - Using 1st level spell slots to cast stilled cantrips (which you couldn't do until 2nd level anyway) is rarely going to be a good use of those spell slots. - Your spell progression is slower than most other spellcasters anyway, and so, once you finally get those higher-level spell slots, do you really want to be using them on lower-level stilled spells? The one advantage to still spell for you (and, I imagine, why you're interested in it) is that it negates the arcane spell failure chance due to wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a shield. But, you'd need to spend another feat on the armor proficiency. Unless you're planning on multiclassing with a melee-capable class, your bard should be trying to stay out of melee if at all possible, and thus, you shouldn't need that heavier armor. If you really feel like you want to armor up, look for access to mithral, and buy yourself a mithral breastplate (counts as light armor) and a mithral buckler.
LGMoses 12-13-06, 04:39 PM	I wasn't buying it for buffing up my AC. With Still spell, I could cast spells while playing my bardic music.
kenobi65 12-13-06, 05:10 PM	I wasn't buying it for buffing up my AC. With Still spell, I could cast spells while playing my bardic music. Ahhh, got it. Doesn't work that way, however. From the description of bardic music in the SRD: Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). So, even if you're playing your lute for your bardic music, and, thus, your "voice" is free, you can't do both at once. OTOH, keep in mind that some bardic music (like Inspire Courage, which is the one you'll use the most) continues to "work" for 5 rounds after you stop playing / singing, and the Lingering Song feat makes it last even longer (5 additional rounds, IIRC). Take Lingering Song at 3rd level, and you'll really never have to sing an Inspire song for more than a round, as very few combats last longer than 10 rounds.
Morgen 12-13-06, 06:33 PM	It does seem like a waste for a spellcaster who can wear armor to take still spell. Improved Initiative is certainly a good way to go though for the first level. Your a bard so you are a spellcaster, even if some people try to trick you out of thinking that you are. So there isn't really a way to become more magically focused short of like taking some cleric levels and going mystic thurge. Or maybe a Bard/Favored Soul/Thurge... Hmmm...that'd be a lot of magic. More seriously however, I'd recommend taking like Perform Oratory or Sing so you can keep your hands free if it fits with how you want your character to be run, and look at some of the more interesting bardic music feats like lingering song and the like for 3rd. Maybe pick a PrC and build towards that. Warsinger, etc.
Lomiat 12-13-06, 06:49 PM	Besides Improved Initiative, you may wish to consider Magical Aptitude or Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) for the ability to cast from scrolls or wands of... whatever. Spell Focus (enchantment) might be okay if you max out your Charisma. A Daze DC of 15 is mean at levels 1 to 2. Sleep would then be a good spell to pick up early and drop later. Scribe Scroll would give you something to do with your TUs and gold.. and give you more spells per day in future adventures. Two-weapon Fighting would set you along the path for Dual-Wand Wielder, which could be very interesting at later levels.
UMiskatonic 12-13-06, 07:00 PM	I'm going to argue against scribe scroll. Unlike a cleric, or even a wizard, you won't know enough spells to make it useful. Craft arms and armor, on the other hand, I -do- recommend for bards. Take it at, say, sixth, and shove things that are useful now into those low-level feat slots. Consider Skill Focus (diplomacy). If you take Marshal 1 as your third level, then you'll get access to TWO non-PHB feats at third level. Yay.
clannagh 12-13-06, 08:33 PM	A lot of bards seem to turn into back up archers so point blank shot and precise shot if you are human can be handy. If your con is low there is always Combat Casting. You may also want to look at what PrC's you are considering and whether they have any meta-magic or other feats as pre-requisites. Even if teh metamagic feat is useless at level 1 it may get you into your class a level or two earlier.
Mattastrophic 12-13-06, 09:37 PM	Seconded. Also keep in mind that you can delay Marshal1 until the level you meet a prereq or something. -Matt Consider Skill Focus (diplomacy). If you take Marshal 1 as your third level, then you'll get access to TWO non-PHB feats at third level. Yay.
kenobi65 12-13-06, 09:59 PM	If your con is low there is always Combat Casting. I'd advise taking Skill Focus (Concentration) instead. Back in 3E, when Skill Focus was only +2, Combat Casting was a reasonably good feat. But, now, with Skill Focus at +3, Combat Casting only gives you a net gain of +1, while being less flexible -- you only get the bonus when casting defensively, whereas Skill Focus gives you that bonus on all Concentration checks.
LGMoses 12-13-06, 10:10 PM	Honestly, I don't like to multiclass. If I spend my skill points and feats wisely I can make my character how I want him w/o going willy nilly with classes. Making a magic focused bard will simply mean spending skill points in knowledge(arcana), spellcraft, and UMD. The idea for half-elf bard I'm doing is he's left his elven community. (theres a town in the yeomanry, I forget its name). He's left to satiate his wanderlust and secretly, he searches for his father. All he has of his fathers is his holy symbol of the god Norebo. My elven mother gave me a gift before I left. I'd passionately pursued my learning and playing of the harp and as a gift she has given me her MW harp which she recieved from her father who recieved it from his father who made it. With this, my half elf sets out on his own. I invest heavily in knowledge skills so my elf has a love of learning, so I foresee his involvement in the University at Loftwick meta-org but who knows their characters future. Thats a problem I think a lot of people have they think too much on builds in their characters future. Just let it flow and see where ur character is going to go. no offense meant to anyone.
clannagh 12-14-06, 12:31 AM	Honestly, I don't like to multiclass. If I spend my skill points and feats wisely I can make my character how I want him w/o going willy nilly with classes. Making a magic focused bard will simply mean spending skill points in knowledge(arcana), spellcraft, and UMD. The idea for half-elf bard I'm doing is he's left his elven community. (theres a town in the yeomanry, I forget its name). He's left to satiate his wanderlust and secretly, he searches for his father. All he has of his fathers is his holy symbol of the god Norebo. My elven mother gave me a gift before I left. I'd passionately pursued my learning and playing of the harp and as a gift she has given me her MW harp which she recieved from her father who recieved it from his father who made it. With this, my half elf sets out on his own. I invest heavily in knowledge skills so my elf has a love of learning, so I foresee his involvement in the University at Loftwick meta-org but who knows their characters future. Thats a problem I think a lot of people have they think too much on builds in their characters future. Just let it flow and see where ur character is going to go. no offense meant to anyone. i am not sure if half-elves qualify .. but elf dilettante at level 3 is very in character for a knowledgable elfy type
LGMoses 12-14-06, 12:46 AM	lol, I have to see this, where can i see elf dilettante?
kenobi65 12-14-06, 12:53 AM	Races of the Wild, p. 150. You have to be an elf (not half-elf) to take it. Effectively, what it does is give you a phantom "1 rank" in all your untrained skills, letting you make skill checks on skills that normally couldn't be used untrained (notably, Knowledge skills).
Jay_Ibero_911 12-14-06, 01:35 PM	You could take Improved Initiative at 1st level, then Lingering Song at 3rd, so that way you can hopefully go 1st in combat, start up an inspirational boosted bard song, then next round start doing other stuff because then your song will last 10 rounds instead of 5, which should be more than enough for most combats.
Mommy was an Orc 12-14-06, 01:41 PM	Races of the Wild, p. 150. You have to be an elf (not half-elf) to take it. Effectively, what it does is give you a phantom "1 rank" in all your untrained skills, letting you make skill checks on skills that normally couldn't be used untrained (notably, Knowledge skills). Which isn't a very good feat for someone planning to invest heavily in knowledge skills
magebeast 12-18-06, 05:56 PM	You could take Improved Initiative at 1st level, then Lingering Song at 3rd, so that way you can hopefully go 1st in combat, start up an inspirational boosted bard song, then next round start doing other stuff because then your song will last 10 rounds instead of 5, which should be more than enough for most combats. Maybe I play with too many power gamers, but I rarely find that combats last beyond those five rounds anyway.
qstor 01-06-07, 09:55 AM	If you want to focus on arane spells, then why not Spell Focus (blank) Enchantment might be a good school. Hold Monster is a good high level enchantment spell that's useful in combat. Mike
LachlarlanIII 01-06-07, 11:12 AM	Skill Focus (UMD) or Magical Aptitude. If you're going to be fairly light with arcane firepower, being able to use wands of fireball and lightning bolt when you find them will be a huge asset.
UMiskatonic 01-06-07, 05:17 PM	Spell focus (enchantment) also allows you to take advantage of one of the strengths of the bard, which is secretly the bard spell list. Many of the bard enchantment spells are lower level spells for bards than they are for sorcerors/wizards. This means that you can get Tasha's hideous laughter at 2nd level, or Suggestion at 4th. That's FASTER than wizard and sorceror, who get these spells at 3/4 and 5/6.
LGMoses 01-06-07, 06:12 PM	Wow, those are some nice ideas. I'll really consider the spell focus and magical aptitude. thanks guys
Jay_Ibero_911 01-07-07, 05:42 PM	Spell focus (enchantment) also allows you to take advantage of one of the strengths of the bard, which is secretly the bard spell list. Many of the bard enchantment spells are lower level spells for bards than they are for sorcerors/wizards. This means that you can get Tasha's hideous laughter at 2nd level, or Suggestion at 4th. That's FASTER than wizard and sorceror, who get these spells at 3/4 and 5/6. Of course, this is only a benefit at low levels, as lower spell level for bards also means lower save DC's. Spell Focus is basically canceling out that penalty....Still a good idea though, as a well placed enchantment can nerf a combat...
UMiskatonic 01-07-07, 10:26 PM	Well, it does keep going. Otto's irresistable dance is a 6th level spell for a bard/sublime chord, and an 8th level spell for a wizard, just to name one example. Hmm. Does this mean that a bard-enchanter would get good use out of Heighten Spell? That's interesting, I've never really like that feat before. I mean sure, eventually 1st level spells are not super effective, but everyone's got that problem.
Frumpkis 01-08-07, 06:01 PM	My bard is a spellcasting-focused bard/sublime chord, and let me tell you, Heighten Spell is great for that kind of build. Because bards get such a limited number of spells known (it gets a little better once you hit the Sublime Chord levels, but still, it's nowhere near as versatile as a wizard or warmage), Heighten Spell allows you to get the most mileage out of your low-level spells. Without Heighten Spell, the DC for something like your Tasha's Hideous Laughter will quickly fall behind the curve by about APL 6 - and it's a looong couple of levels before you can replace it with Hold Monster. Heighten Spell will keep low-level spells like Tasha's, Grease, Glitterdust (one of the best offensive spells on the bard list), Sound Burst, Charm Person, Confusion (another great bard spell), Slow viable for you all the way to retirement. And to get back to the original topic, the feats on my spellcaster bard are: - Improved Initiative - Danger Sense - Spell Focus (enchantment) - Lyric Spell - Heighten Spell - looking to pick up Disguise Spell at 15th If I'd could've fit more feats in there, GSF (enchantment) and Extra Music (to take better advantage of Lyric Spell) would've been top picks.