Got an Idea for a Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Got an Idea for a Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Will_DM_for_Pizza
05-16-07, 10:32 PM Hey I got an idea for a fighter, but atm I only have a copy of the 3rd edition book of the Player's Guide. Any ways I was hping that this would still work.

Human Fighter-1

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)

Equipment: Bastard Swordsx2; Chainmail
Japangirl
05-16-07, 11:41 PM The feats have changed somewhat. Ambidexterity is no longer a feat, but there is Two-Weapon Fighting. This allows you to wield a medium weapon in your main hand and a light weapon in your off hand for a -2 penalty to hit on both, or a medium weapon in both hands for a -4/-4 to hit.

To reduce the penalties to -2/-2, you would need Oversized Offhand, a feat that lets you wield a martial weapon in your offhand when you two-weapon fight for less penalty. There is no way to reduce the penalties to hit to less than -2 on every attack.

Go to www.d20srd.org, it has the PHB, DMG, and MM 3.5 Open Source rules, which includes feats, skills, and other new rules. It would probably pay off to at least peruse the site before building a character for LG, so that you are more familiar with the changes from 3.0 to 3.5.

Oh yeah. Your point buy is only 26, you have 28 points to spend in LG. You can buy a 16 Dex if you wanted, or a 12 Int for more skills, or whatever.
clannagh
05-16-07, 11:48 PM Hey I got an idea for a fighter, but atm I only have a copy of the 3rd edition book of the Player's Guide. Any ways I was hping that this would still work.

Human Fighter-1

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)

Equipment: Bastard Swordsx2; Chainmail

Bastard sword for d10 vs d8 for a longsword is really not worth wasting a feat on unless you are after EWM levels.

Think of it this way, spending two feats ..

EWP +focus Bastard sword is +1 to hit D10 damage
Focus + specialise Long Sword is +1 to hit and D8+2 damage

secondly spending points on dex 15 is unnecessary at level 1 ... go dex 14 int 12 for more skills and bump dex to 15 and take any feats that need 15 dex at level 3
Will_DM_for_Pizza
05-17-07, 12:29 AM Alright, nvm then, prolly not going to do this for my character then.
Will_DM_for_Pizza
05-17-07, 12:31 AM Bastard sword for d10 vs d8 for a longsword is really not worth wasting a feat on unless you are after EWM levels.

Think of it this way, spending two feats ..

EWP +focus Bastard sword is +1 to hit D10 damage
Focus + specialise Long Sword is +1 to hit and D8+2 damage

secondly spending points on dex 15 is unnecessary at level 1 ... go dex 14 int 12 for more skills and bump dex to 15 and take any feats that need 15 dex at level 3

Well all I have is the 3rd edition PH so if you do the math from there it comes out to I can use two bastard swords proficiently with no off hand penalty, also I can hit between 6 and 48 damage at lvl 1.
Wraith235
05-17-07, 12:43 AM Minimum Dex is 15 for TWF I believe

I would go with this instead

EWP Bastard ,TWF ,and Oversized TWF

that way your Str mod will Cancel out the -2/-2 and your BAB Will give you a +1/+1

at 2nd level I would get Focus Bastard giving you a +3/+3
Will_DM_for_Pizza
05-17-07, 01:26 AM Yeah in the 3rd edition book 15 is the minimum you must have to get Ambidextery, that's why dex is higher than Str and Con, I figured I could get stat bonuses and gear bonuses to those two.
Wraith235
05-17-07, 01:28 AM I've actually been Debating a vuild like this ... the only problem with it is its going to be eternally Low on AC
jstorrie
05-17-07, 04:22 AM Elven thinblades are a bit better for the oversized two-weapon fighting route, because you can drop your points into Dexterity instead of Strength but still Power Attack.

Human
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 8
1 Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Thinblade
2 Fighter: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Barbarian: Extra Rage
4 Fighter: Power Attack
5 Fighter
6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Elven Thinblade, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7 Exotic Weapon Master: Uncanny Blow
8 Fighter
9 Fighter: Melee Weapon Mastery, Two-Weapon Pounce
10 Fighter
11 Fighter: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12 Swashbuckler: Daring Warrior
13 Fighter
14 Fighter: Reckless Rage
15 Fighter: Improved Toughness
clik_ml
05-17-07, 08:59 AM also I can hit between 6 and 48 damage at lvl 1.

Unfortunately getting 2 crits while TWFing and rolling maximum damage at level one, is simply never going to happen.

In 3.0 your attack penalty for TWFing like that is -6/-6, so your attack bonus would be -2/-2. So against an AC 18 critter, you need 20's to hit and you are looking at the odds of maximum damage happening being around
0.00000000000625%
6 rounds out of 100,000,000,000... one hundred billion.
To simply get two crits (no particular damge rolls) you will need 6 rounds out of 1 million. Hey, at this point it's better than your odds at winning a lottery jackpot at least.

In 3.5 if you took the feats that Wraith suggested then you are up to an attack bonus which is much better, but still ridiculous to even care about what the maximum damage of 2 crits would be.

If you really wanted to use that kind of math-logic, then TWFing with heavy picks is the cat's pajamas since your minimum-maximum damage on 2 hits goes from 5-72 at level one.
(I also don't think you took into account that the off-hand weapon only gets 1/2 str mod to damage... the dual bastard swords go from 5-46 potentially).

Looking at the extreme damage outputs isn't ever really helpful.

Looking at average damage while including attack percentages vs. a spread of ACs is a much better indicator of how successfully a setup will perform. At low levels your bigger concern is simply going to be whether you can hit stuff consistently... and TWFing with big weapons drives that chance down.

The bastard sword itself isn't close to being worth a feat. It gives a +1 average damage over the long sword (5.5 instead of 4.5 avg damage). That's not worth a feat. The only fringe exception is that it is an exotic weapon, and that lets you use the prestige class Exotic Weapon Master in order to take a special ability which lets you add 2x strength modifier to damage instead of 1.5 when using it 2-handed... something that really only matters for builds that get their strength up into the high 20's or 30's (i.e. rage builds).

And I will definitely reiterate what others have said.

Check out http://d20srd.org and see what changes have been made in 3.5 from 3.0. There's lots of little changes in editions that weren't obvious or necessary, and it'll be confusing for a while (much moreso for spellcasters tho).
Reylance
05-17-07, 01:20 PM One benefit of fighting with bastard swords is the big bump from 1d10 to 2d8 (5.5 to 9) when enlarged. For long swords, it is 1d8 to 2d6 (4.5 to 7). The equivalent d8 weapon that requires a feat, the elven thinblade, has a better threat range, though.

Remember the big rules debate about using the Uncanny Blow ability from Exotic Weapon Master in any way other than a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands.

A ranger can do two-weapon fighting without needing Dex. However, that requires light armor and guarantees a pathetic AC, unless you're a dwarven Deepwarden. Dwarves can use dwarven waraxes without needing a feat.
Timlagor
05-18-07, 07:05 AM DOWNLOAD THE System Resource Document from the WotC website. (I'm sure you can find it as easily as I can)

Seriously: there are too many differences between 3.0 and 3.5 for the 3.0 book to be useful to you.
KShaver
05-18-07, 10:39 AM Human Fighter-1

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Decent start, 15 dex is still required for TWF, but if you want to do damage you'll need more Str. The other attributes Int, Wis, and Charisma are all not necessary for this build. Considering the hig h dex needed for the later TWF feats (like Improved TWF) I'd suggest higher dex as well. It may be kinda simple, but attributes like:

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 8

...Would work a little better for your build, unless you take the given suggestion of using two elven thin-blades, in which case you drop a little off of str (still go 14, since 13 is min for Oversized TWF), but would definately want to have 16 dex.

Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)

As mentioned Ambidexterity no longer exists, it is built into the TWF feat now, but the requirement for TWF was bumped up to 15 dex min. Leave off the weapon focus at first level to take Oversized TWF, this negates the additional -2 for not using an offhand light weapon.

The downside to using two thinblades is that they are pretty much the same as bastard swords unless you finesse them, which requires an additional feat to an already feat heavy build. Still they are a good option, but so is the bastard sword build. They also cost significantly more (400ea), meaning you would have to spend 1400 gp for a pair of MW thinblades which would put you well into 2nd level before you could afford your weapons. On the other hand two MW bastard swords are fairly cheap and you could have them plus some MW armor (breastplate) and few healing potions for the same cost.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Will_DM_for_Pizza 05-16-07, 10:32 PM	Hey I got an idea for a fighter, but atm I only have a copy of the 3rd edition book of the Player's Guide. Any ways I was hping that this would still work. Human Fighter-1 Str: 14 Dex: 15 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) Equipment: Bastard Swordsx2; Chainmail
Japangirl 05-16-07, 11:41 PM	The feats have changed somewhat. Ambidexterity is no longer a feat, but there is Two-Weapon Fighting. This allows you to wield a medium weapon in your main hand and a light weapon in your off hand for a -2 penalty to hit on both, or a medium weapon in both hands for a -4/-4 to hit. To reduce the penalties to -2/-2, you would need Oversized Offhand, a feat that lets you wield a martial weapon in your offhand when you two-weapon fight for less penalty. There is no way to reduce the penalties to hit to less than -2 on every attack. Go to www.d20srd.org, it has the PHB, DMG, and MM 3.5 Open Source rules, which includes feats, skills, and other new rules. It would probably pay off to at least peruse the site before building a character for LG, so that you are more familiar with the changes from 3.0 to 3.5. Oh yeah. Your point buy is only 26, you have 28 points to spend in LG. You can buy a 16 Dex if you wanted, or a 12 Int for more skills, or whatever.
clannagh 05-16-07, 11:48 PM	Hey I got an idea for a fighter, but atm I only have a copy of the 3rd edition book of the Player's Guide. Any ways I was hping that this would still work. Human Fighter-1 Str: 14 Dex: 15 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) Equipment: Bastard Swordsx2; Chainmail Bastard sword for d10 vs d8 for a longsword is really not worth wasting a feat on unless you are after EWM levels. Think of it this way, spending two feats .. EWP +focus Bastard sword is +1 to hit D10 damage Focus + specialise Long Sword is +1 to hit and D8+2 damage secondly spending points on dex 15 is unnecessary at level 1 ... go dex 14 int 12 for more skills and bump dex to 15 and take any feats that need 15 dex at level 3
Will_DM_for_Pizza 05-17-07, 12:29 AM	Alright, nvm then, prolly not going to do this for my character then.
Will_DM_for_Pizza 05-17-07, 12:31 AM	Bastard sword for d10 vs d8 for a longsword is really not worth wasting a feat on unless you are after EWM levels. Think of it this way, spending two feats .. EWP +focus Bastard sword is +1 to hit D10 damage Focus + specialise Long Sword is +1 to hit and D8+2 damage secondly spending points on dex 15 is unnecessary at level 1 ... go dex 14 int 12 for more skills and bump dex to 15 and take any feats that need 15 dex at level 3 Well all I have is the 3rd edition PH so if you do the math from there it comes out to I can use two bastard swords proficiently with no off hand penalty, also I can hit between 6 and 48 damage at lvl 1.
Wraith235 05-17-07, 12:43 AM	Minimum Dex is 15 for TWF I believe I would go with this instead EWP Bastard ,TWF ,and Oversized TWF that way your Str mod will Cancel out the -2/-2 and your BAB Will give you a +1/+1 at 2nd level I would get Focus Bastard giving you a +3/+3
Will_DM_for_Pizza 05-17-07, 01:26 AM	Yeah in the 3rd edition book 15 is the minimum you must have to get Ambidextery, that's why dex is higher than Str and Con, I figured I could get stat bonuses and gear bonuses to those two.
Wraith235 05-17-07, 01:28 AM	I've actually been Debating a vuild like this ... the only problem with it is its going to be eternally Low on AC
jstorrie 05-17-07, 04:22 AM	Elven thinblades are a bit better for the oversized two-weapon fighting route, because you can drop your points into Dexterity instead of Strength but still Power Attack. Human Str 14 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 8 1 Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Thinblade 2 Fighter: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Barbarian: Extra Rage 4 Fighter: Power Attack 5 Fighter 6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Elven Thinblade, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 7 Exotic Weapon Master: Uncanny Blow 8 Fighter 9 Fighter: Melee Weapon Mastery, Two-Weapon Pounce 10 Fighter 11 Fighter: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 12 Swashbuckler: Daring Warrior 13 Fighter 14 Fighter: Reckless Rage 15 Fighter: Improved Toughness
clik_ml 05-17-07, 08:59 AM	also I can hit between 6 and 48 damage at lvl 1. Unfortunately getting 2 crits while TWFing and rolling maximum damage at level one, is simply never going to happen. In 3.0 your attack penalty for TWFing like that is -6/-6, so your attack bonus would be -2/-2. So against an AC 18 critter, you need 20's to hit and you are looking at the odds of maximum damage happening being around 0.00000000000625% 6 rounds out of 100,000,000,000... one hundred billion. To simply get two crits (no particular damge rolls) you will need 6 rounds out of 1 million. Hey, at this point it's better than your odds at winning a lottery jackpot at least. In 3.5 if you took the feats that Wraith suggested then you are up to an attack bonus which is much better, but still ridiculous to even care about what the maximum damage of 2 crits would be. If you really wanted to use that kind of math-logic, then TWFing with heavy picks is the cat's pajamas since your minimum-maximum damage on 2 hits goes from 5-72 at level one. (I also don't think you took into account that the off-hand weapon only gets 1/2 str mod to damage... the dual bastard swords go from 5-46 potentially). Looking at the extreme damage outputs isn't ever really helpful. Looking at average damage while including attack percentages vs. a spread of ACs is a much better indicator of how successfully a setup will perform. At low levels your bigger concern is simply going to be whether you can hit stuff consistently... and TWFing with big weapons drives that chance down. The bastard sword itself isn't close to being worth a feat. It gives a +1 average damage over the long sword (5.5 instead of 4.5 avg damage). That's not worth a feat. The only fringe exception is that it is an exotic weapon, and that lets you use the prestige class Exotic Weapon Master in order to take a special ability which lets you add 2x strength modifier to damage instead of 1.5 when using it 2-handed... something that really only matters for builds that get their strength up into the high 20's or 30's (i.e. rage builds). And I will definitely reiterate what others have said. Check out http://d20srd.org and see what changes have been made in 3.5 from 3.0. There's lots of little changes in editions that weren't obvious or necessary, and it'll be confusing for a while (much moreso for spellcasters tho).
Reylance 05-17-07, 01:20 PM	One benefit of fighting with bastard swords is the big bump from 1d10 to 2d8 (5.5 to 9) when enlarged. For long swords, it is 1d8 to 2d6 (4.5 to 7). The equivalent d8 weapon that requires a feat, the elven thinblade, has a better threat range, though. Remember the big rules debate about using the Uncanny Blow ability from Exotic Weapon Master in any way other than a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands. A ranger can do two-weapon fighting without needing Dex. However, that requires light armor and guarantees a pathetic AC, unless you're a dwarven Deepwarden. Dwarves can use dwarven waraxes without needing a feat.
Timlagor 05-18-07, 07:05 AM	DOWNLOAD THE System Resource Document from the WotC website. (I'm sure you can find it as easily as I can) Seriously: there are too many differences between 3.0 and 3.5 for the 3.0 book to be useful to you.
KShaver 05-18-07, 10:39 AM	Human Fighter-1 Str: 14 Dex: 15 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 Decent start, 15 dex is still required for TWF, but if you want to do damage you'll need more Str. The other attributes Int, Wis, and Charisma are all not necessary for this build. Considering the hig h dex needed for the later TWF feats (like Improved TWF) I'd suggest higher dex as well. It may be kinda simple, but attributes like: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 8 ...Would work a little better for your build, unless you take the given suggestion of using two elven thin-blades, in which case you drop a little off of str (still go 14, since 13 is min for Oversized TWF), but would definately want to have 16 dex. Feats: Exotic Weapon Pro. (Bastard Sword); Ambidextery; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) As mentioned Ambidexterity no longer exists, it is built into the TWF feat now, but the requirement for TWF was bumped up to 15 dex min. Leave off the weapon focus at first level to take Oversized TWF, this negates the additional -2 for not using an offhand light weapon. The downside to using two thinblades is that they are pretty much the same as bastard swords unless you finesse them, which requires an additional feat to an already feat heavy build. Still they are a good option, but so is the bastard sword build. They also cost significantly more (400ea), meaning you would have to spend 1400 gp for a pair of MW thinblades which would put you well into 2nd level before you could afford your weapons. On the other hand two MW bastard swords are fairly cheap and you could have them plus some MW armor (breastplate) and few healing potions for the same cost.