Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 07-25-07, 12:12 PM	I haven't played a Warmage before, but I was thinking the eclectic learning was interesting enough to give it a try. My main question is Grey elf for the stats or human for the feats. Grey Elf Human Str 8 Str 10 Dex 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Con 12 Int 16 Int 16 Wis 10 Wis 10 Cha 16 Cha 14 Which is the better way to go?
delewobmesid 07-25-07, 12:26 PM	Edge is nice, but not essential; the int will be more for skills in the long run; I play a warmage gnome; early on, the int bonus of the grey elf is going to be huge in a given encounter; in the long run, you will be a fighter that uses spells as his weapons (and only attacks once a round most times); Don't give up a caster level (I did for a level of bard and have regretted it since many times, although my part is usually happy I can use a clw wand); High Chais more important than high int; don't discount str (you should go for mithral full plate when you hit 8th); Dex is nice, but not essential; you will be the target of alot of attacks once they realize you are the blaster; Con is very important to surviving the inevitable counter attack; I'd go with human, 10,14,14,14,8,15 all bumps to cha, straight warmage, sf evocation, empower spell with metamagic specialist at 3rd; nonlethal sub fire at 6th (being able to fireball in a city is a nice option when innocents are about);
Banor 07-25-07, 12:28 PM	I feel both are solid choices, I personnaly prefer humans, as i like to have extra feat to play with. I'd say don't overestimate the warmage edge ability, a High charisma will do better as you gonna throw a lot of Reflex or Half spells and your DCs got to be as high as you can. Gaining a +1 damage on your spell isnt worth the chance of letting your enemies go with half damage. Grey elf ----Human STR : 10----10 DEX : 12----12 CON : 12----14 INT : 16-----14 WIS : 8-----8 CHA 16------16 Feat wise, I'd say Spell focus (Evoc) and Greater spell focus (evoc) are solid choices, so is Empower Spell and Metamagic School Focus (evoc), Sculpt isnt half bad either as you will be able to shape most of your spells (better option than Non lethal sub imo). Don't bother with Energy subs, you are a spontaneous caster with a lot of different energy type :)
Necrochaos 07-25-07, 12:46 PM	What about point blank and precise shot?
awroe 07-25-07, 01:17 PM	In a moment of idiocy, I read the title as "Greyhawk ruins Warmage", and wondered what they had done to ruin the Warmage class. Doh! On topic, PB/Precise shot can be nice, though at higher levels you'll usually hit without them. Plus you get a number of area effect spells that don't need attack rolls. Might be worth taking them with the intent to train. However, Metamagic school focus is very nice (free sculpt 3 per day), and requires Spell Focus of some sort. Might be interesting to see if you could make a Shadowcraft Mage Warmage with the Eclectic Learning...
UMiskatonic 07-25-07, 01:42 PM	You have two choices on warmage builds, and if it were me, I'd let the answer determine my choice of race. a) area effect guy. To cast these spells, you need the DCs as high as you can get them. The +1 from a higher INT is nothing compared to doubling your damage (it's save for half, usually). Spell focus, jinn-bond, spell penetration are all good choices. I'd go human for the feat, so you can start sculpting and empowering right away. b) Precision guy. Here, you'll be working with one target, and will need point blank and precise shot. You'll be an adequate back-up archer, esp. if you're an elf. Dex is important, so that you hit. There is no save, so CHA is not as crucial. Craft Arms and Armor ain't bad here, you can make a nifty magic bow for yourself, and magic arrows for the team.
UMiskatonic 07-25-07, 01:43 PM	It's also possible to go warmage--> wildmage. I'd expect to see wild mage access given out at some point, the place was built by Zagig after all.
Necrochaos 07-25-07, 01:44 PM	I think I'll go for area affect guy, so less int more cha?
Banor 07-25-07, 01:45 PM	b) Precision guy. Here, you'll be working with one target, and will need point blank and precise shot. You'll be an adequate back-up archer, esp. if you're an elf. Dex is important, so that you hit. There is no save, so CHA is not as crucial. Craft Arms and Armor ain't bad here, you can make a nifty magic bow for yourself, and magic arrows for the team. If you go this route, Spellwarp sniper could be an idea too.
delewobmesid 07-25-07, 01:46 PM	at low levels a warmage magic missles things to death; at mid to high levels I find myself orb of forcing everything that attacks; your not as versital as a normal wizard; your first advanced learning should be detect magic (you don't realize how much the arcane is looked for to fill this slot until you can't cast it); after that your options really open up, but keep things straight caster above all else.
rutrow424 07-25-07, 02:44 PM	How would a dip (4 levels) into elemental savant work for the AoE guy? I'm always tempted to go this route, since you don't lose much - 1 feat on energy sub, and you have force spells to use if your energy type is ineffective - and you get a few benefits. Any thoughts?
boogahwoof 07-25-07, 03:52 PM	I agree with less int mor cha. I have a 10th level warmage, one feat i would suggest is if you go human take that extra feat and go with well read, it opens up every knowledge skill for the most part. So if you have a decent int youll always be good at knowing some off hand info, all my friends call my warmage the encyclopedia
Jay_Ibero_911 07-25-07, 04:13 PM	Just some feat suggestions here: Spell Focus (Evocation/Conjuration) (PHB) Metamagic School Focus (Evocation/Conjuration) (CM) Piercing Evocation (CM) Empower Spell (PHB) Consecrate Spell (CD) Nonlethal Substitution (CA) Sculpt Spell (CA) Transdimensional Spell (CA/CD) Combine Consecrate Spell with Piercing Evocation and the majority of your damage will not be subject to energy resistance. Transdimensional Spell can be handy if you want to hit incorps with AoE's (like if you are fighting a wraith swarm). Sculpt Spell of course makes it easier to not hit your allies. Non-lethal substitution also helpful for when you want to NOT kill something. And good old Empower Spell for upping your damage. Whatever you go with you definately do want Metamagic School Focus in either Evocation or Conjuration as those are your primary damage sources.
Banor 07-25-07, 04:20 PM	Whatever you go with you definately do want Metamagic School Focus in either Evocation or Conjuration as those are your primary damage sources. Agreed, Evocation for Blaster type and Conjuration for Sniper type they are a must along Empower (Your job is to deal damage, better do it well :)) and Sculpt (Your job is to do damage ... to your enemies !)
Necrochaos 07-25-07, 06:13 PM	Human-Suel-Wee Jas Str 10 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 16 1 Spell Focus Evoc, Empower Spell 3 Metamagic School Focus (Evoc) 6- Sculpt Spell 9 Greater Spell Focus Evoc Where else should I go? Do I need Spell Penetration in this? I'm planning to go AoE
Nutation 07-25-07, 06:46 PM	Where else should I go? Do I need Spell Penetration in this? If something has spell resistance, you cast one of your many SR:No spells. Rapid Metamagic would give you some mobility.
UMiskatonic 07-25-07, 10:34 PM	I think I'll go for area affect guy, so less int more cha? Absolutely. I know warmage edge is a big deal at 1st level, as you magic missile opponents into the dirt. I had the chance to play a warmage in a home game, and at mid levels, the difference between 6d6 + 2 and 6d6 + 4 just isn't it. A room full of ogres isn't going to fall over from 2hp of damage. On the other hand, bringing the save DC up by two might make them fall over. That's an extra 3d6 damage. And a bonus spell too.
Banor 07-25-07, 11:24 PM	Human-Suel-Wee Jas Str 10 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 16 1 Spell Focus Evoc, Empower Spell 3 Metamagic School Focus (Evoc) 6- Sculpt Spell 9 Greater Spell Focus Evoc Where else should I go? Do I need Spell Penetration in this? I'm planning to go AoE Spell Penetration isnt bad, but get anything that can increase your CL a bit and go for Arcane Mastery. Taking 10 on CL allow you to bypass a SR of Your CL+10 no check. Not too bad especially if you can get Spell Penetration. That could help you if you choose to take Dispel magic (or Greater dispel) for your Eclectic learning spell.
UMiskatonic 07-25-07, 11:37 PM	One level of marshal ain't bad for a warmage. You get all weapons and all armor, great diplomacy skills, all the knowledge skills, speak language, and your charisma as a bonus on spell penetration checks.
Jay_Ibero_911 07-25-07, 11:46 PM	One level of marshal ain't bad for a warmage. You get all weapons and all armor, great diplomacy skills, all the knowledge skills, speak language, and your charisma as a bonus on spell penetration checks. Except a warmage should never need to make a spell penetration check with their wide array of SR: NO spells...
Necrochaos 07-26-07, 04:52 AM	I'm going to shy away from Marshall. If my first nine levels look ok (which is all the higher I'll get this year) then I'll worry about everything else when the new LGCS comes out.
DuctShuiTengu 07-26-07, 01:53 PM	How would a dip (4 levels) into elemental savant work for the AoE guy? I'm always tempted to go this route, since you don't lose much - 1 feat on energy sub, and you have force spells to use if your energy type is ineffective - and you get a few benefits. Any thoughts? Personally, I'd avoid it like the plague. Yes, Force spells can get you through those situations where (for instance) you're fighting fire creatures and have only fire spells. However, one of the big advantages that a warmage has here over a normal sorcerer is the versatility (edit: Versatility within their area of expertise). Force spells against creatures that are immune to fire but vulnerable to cold is a poor substitute for being able to actually hit them with cold damage.