Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Churcher 01-10-08, 10:29 PM	I've finally got a character into Red Hand! Yay! So, I need a lower level character to play with some of the other players at our LGS. So, I've been toying with an idea about a Mount being stronger then a Paladin. So, here's the idea: Aperion Kinglight Tallfellow Halfling STR: 12 DEX: 10 CON: 12 INT: 14 WIS: 10 CHA: 16 1: Paladin [Mounted Combat] 2: Paladin 3: Paladin [Skill Focus: Handle Animal] 4: Paladin [+1 STR] 5: Paladin 6: Beastmaster [Mounted Archery] 7: Halfling Outrider 8: Halfling Outrider [+1 STR] 9: Halfling Outrider [Ride-By Attack] 10: Halfling Outrider 11: Halfling Outrider 12: Halfling Outrider [Sprited Charge] [+1 STR] 13: Halfling Outrider 14: Halfling Outrider 15: Halfling Outrider [Something...] So, like I said, just toying with the idea. So, any thoughts, conserns, jokes? Roleplaying-Wise, he's going to keep reminding people that he IS a paladin. Because, you know...He IS a Paladin, afterall. Oh, anything can be changed. I haven't played with him yet, so everything's fair game! And don't be conserened if you dissuade me from playing him...I'd rather have a decent character then one that stands around doing nothing.
bitznarf 01-10-08, 11:18 PM	Are you sure you want both Mounted Archery and Ride-by-Attack/Spirited Charge? If you want your mount to be powerful, you want him to be doing something. All of those feats tend towards being away from the enemy at the end of the round.
Churcher 01-10-08, 11:21 PM	Well, Mounted Archery is a prereq for Halfling Outrider...otherwise, I'd be taking something else... As for the Ride-By/Spirited Charge...what else could I use? Now that I think about it, Power Attack isn't bad by that level...
jstorrie 01-10-08, 11:51 PM	Your Charisma is much higher than you need, and your Strength lower. You'll want at least Wis 11, so you can cast Resurgence, Lesser Resistance, etc. And I agree with bitznarf above–you want your puffed-up double-mount in combat as long as possible. I'd advise Str 14 Dex 12 Con 14 Wis 12 Int 8 Cha 14 and for feats, go 1: Mounted Combat 3: Skill Focus: Handle Animal 6: Mounted Archery 9: Track 12: Devoted Tracker 15: Power Attack Devoted Tracker will give you one mount with the bonuses of both animal companion and special mount, which is huge for this build. Pick a riding dog for free tripping but don't be afraid to dismount and fight separately. Advanced companion-mount dogs tear things up on their own, anyway. You might find that if you go Ranger 3 / Paladin 5 / Halfling Outrider 7, though, that the feats will line up a little easier.
bitznarf 01-11-08, 12:02 AM	I wonder how effective a riding dog would be at higher levels considering that it only gets the one attack. You may want to look into a way to get it both. Oh, and beware of table variation if you're going to try getting your halfling outrider levels to boost both your EDL and your EPL for mount stats.
Gerhexe 01-11-08, 09:11 AM	I believe with this setup you would have both an animal companion, and a mount. You may want to take Devoted Tracker so one animal can be both. Sorry was already stated.
Churcher 01-11-08, 09:27 AM	Well, If I take the Ranger route, I'll already have Track, correct? That just means I can take Devoted sooner. I'm thinking I'm liking the Ranger/Paladin build better. Now, I don't have the book to access at the moment (Class) so, I'll need to double check, but what does the beastmaster PrC say about Animal Compainons and Mounts. I remember druid, but not Ranger.
bitznarf 01-11-08, 09:47 AM	The ranger animal companion ability refrences druid. So a 4 level or higher ranger has an EDL of 1/2 his ranger level for the purposes of animal companions.
KShaver 01-11-08, 09:50 AM	I'm thinking I'm liking the Ranger/Paladin build better. Now, I don't have the book to access at the moment (Class) so, I'll need to double check, but what does the beastmaster PrC say about Animal Compainons and Mounts. I remember druid, but not Ranger. Beastmaster gives you effective druid levels, the same as taking ranger levels, both are the same as far as devoted tracker is concerned. Thus your levels in beastmaster (+3) plus half (round down, assuming at least 4th) of your ranger levels give you the spot on the druid chart as to where your pet should be. With devoted tracker your just take whatever the modifiers are to a base pet and add them to your animal companion. Thus a paladin 5/ranger4/beastmaster1 has a regular paladin mount plus the abilities of a 6th level druid pet (+4hd, +4nat ac, +2str and so forth). Natural bond will move you up another 3 levels, with a max of your total character level, which in this case is not a problem. I was looking at something similar using the elven paladin racial sub levels. Those allowed a more powerfull mount than normal at 5th, but at a cost of taking a lot longer before you got to advance it again. Using devoted tracker was a way to advance the mount a lot faster than just using straight paladin levels would.
jstorrie 01-11-08, 05:48 PM	The Ranger/Paladin route is honestly a little nicer because it spares you two feats (Track, Skill Focus: Handle Animal) that you could really use. Rgr 4 also gets you a first-level spell slot–useful for Longstrider or Magic Fang (for your ubermount) and leaves you less behind if a DM rules (incorrectly) that the Devoted Tracker-Halfling Outrider combination doesn't work.
bitznarf 01-11-08, 05:58 PM	Spirit of the rules is a nebulous thing jstorrie, whatever the DM rules *is* (in most cases) the right ruling *at that table*. I was trying to avoid turning this thread into another rules debate about this topic by stating it the way I did.
clannagh 01-13-08, 05:53 PM	if you ever get access to riding boots that will free up a feat if you are serious about being a ride-by attack jock .. then shock trooper is an excellent choice (but takes two feat slots to get there) another ideal feat for this build (but it needs access) is natural bond