Post/Author/DateTime	Post
control freak 07-01-07, 02:05 PM	i want to build a wizard that effectivly ends combat in the first round (or possibly 2) and it can use anything it wants i really dont care, i also need general ideas for feats because i dont know ANYTHING about feats for wizards (improved intiative? and leadership?) one possible idea is the "save or battle is over" wizard which is like 6, 16, 12, 20, 8, 8 but other then that i really dont know what to take (also what are the best spells that are open and NONC is it shadow magic and if so where do i find shadow magic)
Gallaway 07-01-07, 10:32 PM	where do i find shadow magic Mainly in Tomb of magic.
_metz_ 07-01-07, 11:30 PM	i want to build a wizard that effectively ends combat in the first round (or possibly 2) and it can use anything it wants i really don't care, i also need general ideas for feats because i don't know ANYTHING about feats for wizards (improved initiative? and leadership?) one possible idea is the "save or battle is over" wizard which is like 6, 16, 12, 20, 8, 8 but other then that i really dont know what to take (also what are the best spells that are open and NONC is it shadow magic and if so where do i find shadow magic) Shadow Magic was given out in a Core Special, one that is not available for home play. Also it wasn't guaranteed you would get it either. I can't think of a single triad in the world that will give access to Shadow casters, nor will allow a special mission for one. Best bet is to just NOT think about it. If you ever see access to it, then yay, but its something that is NOT likely to happen. I have access, and Have a friend that is probably one of the only shadow creatures/shadow casters in LG (Now 11th level). I can't stand it really, as it means you have to sit down and explain an ENTIRE magic system to a DM every time you play with them. Online Games are almost right out. Shadow Magic is NONC. But its effectively much closer to closed then open. As for a cheesed up horribly broken Wizard, I would Suggest: Gnome, Fatespinner Illusionist Shadowcraft mage. Other than that its all down to spell selections and YOUR tactical nuance. If there were spells that just ended the encounter, don't you think that they would have been banned/Mod writers would have found a way to get around them? You have to be able to identify what spells are useful, and WHEN to use em. That's down to experience. There are many ways to win encounters with wizards, and it comes down to HOW you want to win them, battlefield control, explosions, Save or Suck, etc. Having said all the above, Colour Spray is GREAT in intro mods/APL 2. (Next Encounter please?) I wrap up my arguement with this. Don't go looking for Shadow Magic. Tharizdun will find you. Shadow Magic will make itself open to you ;)
Gwumph 07-02-07, 04:42 AM	We have a wizard in our group. He has two level 2 spells that break every encounter. Glitterdust (Will save or Blind for a number of rounds) Web (Reflex save or held, if made is still considered entangle) Both have been shown to effective encounter stoppers. If a BBEG is strong enough to break a web, they usually have lousy will saves. If they have good will saves, they are usually not strong enough to move out of the center of a web. If they have good reflex saves, either their will sucks or they are not strong enough to move rapidly out of the center of a web. Remember if there is 20ft of web between bbeg and you. You have total cover, so that also neutralizes spell casters. Conjuration specialist would also increase the DC of these spells.
ezreal2001 07-02-07, 07:18 AM	Shadow Magic was given out in a Core Special, one that is not available for home play. Also it wasn't guaranteed you would get it either. I can't think of a single triad in the world that will give access to Shadow casters, nor will allow a special mission for one. Best bet is to just NOT think about it. If you ever see access to it, then yay, but its something that is NOT likely to happen. I have access, and Have a friend that is probably one of the only shadow creatures/shadow casters in LG (Now 11th level). I can't stand it really, as it means you have to sit down and explain an ENTIRE magic system to a DM every time you play with them. Online Games are almost right out. And then there was having learn the system to run said encounter only to loose the intiative for both sessions....
Lupo 07-02-07, 08:27 AM	We have a wizard in our group. He has two level 2 spells that break every encounter. Glitterdust (Will save or Blind for a number of rounds) Web (Reflex save or held, if made is still considered entangle) Both have been shown to effective encounter stoppers. If a BBEG is strong enough to break a web, they usually have lousy will saves. If they have good will saves, they are usually not strong enough to move out of the center of a web. If they have good reflex saves, either their will sucks or they are not strong enough to move rapidly out of the center of a web. Remember if there is 20ft of web between bbeg and you. You have total cover, so that also neutralizes spell casters. Conjuration specialist would also increase the DC of these spells. :) that is exactly the way my dwarven wizard handles encounters if he can't nuke everything with fire :D - he is a little bit obsessed with fire you know :P . btw a web does not automatically neutralize spellcasters, it only blocks line of sight, not necessarily line of effect. ciao martin m.
Vamroc 07-02-07, 12:50 PM	i want to build a wizard that effectivly ends combat in the first round (or possibly 2) and it can use anything it wants i really dont care, i also need general ideas for feats because i dont know ANYTHING about feats for wizards (improved intiative? and leadership?) one possible idea is the "save or battle is over" wizard which is like 6, 16, 12, 20, 8, 8 but other then that i really dont know what to take (also what are the best spells that are open and NONC is it shadow magic and if so where do i find shadow magic) Well you aren't going to be able to do it at low levels and at high levels plenty of creatures have really high SR. Your best bet is finding spells that have no SAVE and no SR. This way there is no choice because what if that Black Guard passes and has like DR 10. You did only 12 points and if he has a Cape Of the Montebank he can traverse nearly a 1000 feet in one round. Now your within range of all his spells and must make his saves.
control freak 07-02-07, 01:13 PM	as far as im conserned spells like color spray and sleep are effectivly "save or its over" spells in nearly every battle early on what if any PrCs should i take and my first feat is Imp Initative should i retrain that? and what other feats other then CWI should i take and at what levels (i figure fate spinner is a good PrC i could take but what after that?)
copper_wyrmling 07-03-07, 10:12 AM	Popular wizard prestige classes include divine oracle, loremaster, fatespinner, initiate of the sevenfold veil, archmage, and mage of the arcane order (requires access). Shadowcraft Mage is good for gnomes. The most popular metamagic feats seem to be Empower Spell, Sculpt Spell and Quicken Spell (Rapid Spell for summoners). Arcane Mastery, Elven Spell Lore, Steady Concentration, Mobile Spellcasting, Extraordinary Concentration and Extraordinary Spell Aim are interesting non-metamagic feats, but many wizards seem to tie up most of their feats in qualifying for prestige classes. If you use a lot of metamagic, Metamagic School Focus is a great choice. Most of a wizard's power is determined by how they're played, though - I know this is true for all PCs, but wizards have more options than most. If one L7 wizard opens combat by casting Evard's Black Tentacles in the first round, then Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement on the enemy BDF who managed to escape the grapple, while the wizard on the next table over with exactly the same build spends the same two rounds casting Shield and Mirror Image and moving away from the party as fast as he/she can, then one character is likely to be considered scarily effective while the other is completely useless. In my experience: at low levels, wizards tend to end encounters in a round by use of high-DC color spray / sleep, and poor Will saves on the part of their opponents. At mid levels they gain powerful no-save-it's-over spells like web and evard's black tentacles, while the high-DC people have fun with confusion, slow, etc. At high levels, they can end encounters in too many ways to list: there are many many nice spells on the sorc/wiz list. If you want something cheesy at high levels, shadowcraft mage with reduced-cost heighten tricks should work okay: ninth-level conjuration / evocation spells at L15 are fun. More conventional L15 wizards also do just fine at breaking encounters, though.
Sieylianna 07-03-07, 06:16 PM	as far as im conserned spells like color spray and sleep are effectivly "save or its over" spells in nearly every battle early on what if any PrCs should i take and my first feat is Imp Initative should i retrain that? and what other feats other then CWI should i take and at what levels (i figure fate spinner is a good PrC i could take but what after that?) It doesn't matter what will tell you to do on this board, your effectiveness is going to be measured at the gaming table. And if you don't understand why a build is effective, you won't be able to take advantage of it. Play lots and try to get in groups with the better players in your area. One option is to play Xendrik Expeditions so you can use level bumps to create the PC build you're considering and see how it works without investing years of play time. I've seen plenty of people take a build from here, the CO board, or the lgchardiscussion group and be so much wasted space at the table. Seriously, someone who knows what they are doing will run rings around you with a single-classed PPC. That's why certain judges are so deadly, they have a good grasp of tactics and use them for the bad guys. If you really want to break encounters, you want to go first. That means improved initiative and good dexterity. My wizard ended many combats when her turn came up before retirement. She had improved initiative, luckstone, the ioun stone that adds to ability checks, and a 22 Dexterity for a total of +12. That lets you catch the opponents grouped and before the BDF gets into the AoE of your spell. Ed
control freak 07-03-07, 10:10 PM	i have +7 initiative (not bad for first level) and as for playing different things i have only seen a warmage and a nuking wizard played ( i have never seen anything higher then color spray actualy cast that doesnt do damage)
Lupo 07-03-07, 10:20 PM	i have +7 initiative (not bad for first level) and as for playing different things i have only seen a warmage and a nuking wizard played ( i have never seen anything higher then color spray actualy cast that doesnt do damage) the last module i played with my dwarven wizard (4), he saved the GOLD by casting a "web" spell and another one of his precious "glitterdust" scrolls. otherwise we might have been successful within the adventure but might have lost almost ALL loot. ciao martin m.
boogahwoof 07-04-07, 01:26 AM	I would think a warmage would do good for what you are looking for. take the feats human : school focus evo (to bump your dc's) 1st : meta magic school focus evo 3rd : empower spell at 4th level when you get 2nd level spells you will be empowering on the flt all your first level spells I have seen access to the alternate rules for warmages to allow you to choose something other than evo spells for advanced learning. So that means at 8th level you can learn glitterdust as a 3rd level spell, still thats like 5 castings a day if you need it. You can grab up other meta magic feats maybe like widen spell or sculpt spell to help with control spells of areas of effect
D20_of_Death 07-06-07, 10:51 PM	Many people use something similar to this build for class choice. Grey Elf Wizard After racial mod Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 18* Cha 8 * Dont buy the 20 in LG, the +1DC and bonus spells are not worth the points. Bonus HP from a higher con has kept me alive more times than I can count. 1. Wiz1 Skill Focus Knowledge religion, Scribe scroll 2. Wiz2 - 3. Wiz3 Craft wondrous item 4. Wiz4 - 5. Wiz5 Energy Substitution Electricity 6. Divine Oracle1 Sculpt spell 7. Divine Oracle2- 8. Fatespinner1 - 9. Fatespinner2 Born of Three Thunders 10. Fatespinner3- 11. Fatespinner4- 12. Loremaster1 Quicken spell, Loremaster bonus feat-Empower spell 13. Loremaster2 - 14+ fill in with levels in existing classes, possibly a mindbender level if you have access to enchantment 15. Metamagic feat of choice Feats I take it you are looking for some nasty openers so here is some food for thought. Sculpt spell is powerful when used with some of the spells mentioned above. There are many good spells to sculpt and it is useful for avoiding friendly fire. Cone of Glitterdust and sculpted Evard's Black Tentacles have both effectively ended many combats in the first round. Honorable mentions to the sculpted(cone) of Grease, Magic Circle Evil (line) and Antimagic Field(cone) at higher level, though I always feel terrible about using it. This is the only must have feat on most of my arcane casters. The born of three thunders feat chain isnt for everyone. It can be lethal with the + DC spin bonus from fatespinner. The dazed condition drawback balances out the power fairly well. It is situationally good as an opener against one or two enemy encounters. Bo3T Wall of Fire and Fireshield are powerful. You might prefer some reserve feats from Complete Mage or more metamagic instead. Copper_Wyrmling Listed most of my favorite feats above, Ex. spell aim is outstanding IMO. I'll have to agree with Sieylianna's observation about knowing how to play what you have built as well. Its important to understand the spells you have available and know when to cast them.
Donald_Cannith 07-08-07, 01:54 PM	Do not underestimate a gnome Shadowcrafter. You can get good stats(+2 to con anyone) and is every bit as good as the grey elf, becasuse you will be focused on Illusion and get an extra +1 to your dcs anyway without using a feat or being Bartie Botts every flavored elves.