Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Biota 07-02-07, 08:24 PM	I have a human Paladin 2 / Silver Dragon Shaman 1 who just leveled to 4 (and yes I have access to dragon shaman). For me this is a pretty novel PC and even with just one level has been a lot of fun. I'm not sure exactly what to do with his feats though and am looking for suggestions on feats and/or suggestions on what classes to take in the future. Here is what I have so far: Human Paladin 2 / Silver Dragon Shaman 1 Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14 Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dwarven Warpike) Right now he plays the big bad fighter role okay with full plate and a reach weapon. What kind of roll can a character like this effectively fill in the mid and high APLs? I've thought about retraining Cleave to Blind Fighting because it seems more dragon thematic. What feat would be better? Should I stat bump Str for damage and to hit or bump Cha for better divine grace/smite/lay on hands and eventually better dragon shaman healing? While I wouldn't mind taking a level or two of Marshal I just can't see that making a viable build considering that I'd lose even more BAB. Comments and ideas appreciated.
boogahwoof 07-03-07, 01:16 AM	I'de love to know where you found access to a base class? I've never heard of anything granting access to a base class that was banned?
_metz_ 07-03-07, 01:50 AM	I'de love to know where you found access to a base class? I've never heard of anything granting access to a base class that was banned? 1. It isn't banned. Its NONC. Just like the duskblade. (Can we PLEASE not have this discussion again, just read the ******** LGCS people!) 2. No asking where someone got it, thats called a spoiler/cheating :)
boogahwoof 07-03-07, 03:23 AM	good point i was under the impression non playable was banned sorry for the infraction
_metz_ 07-03-07, 03:29 AM	good point i was under the impression non playable was banned sorry for the infraction Thats fine, you just wouldn't beleive the amount of times this seems to get asked ;) It's a little frustrating when its in the core rules document :)
delewobmesid 07-03-07, 10:29 AM	Dragon Shaman is a 'support' class, but really good at it; if you stick with Dragon Shaman you'll turn up with a very bard like support healer; if I had this situation, I'd max out the dragon shaman levels and enjoy breathing on baddies every d4 rounds, bashing with your warpike, and healing with your hands; feat wise, extra smite wouldn't be a bad thing...close quarter fighting is never a wasted feat for a front liner (stupid mobs).
Mocoso 07-03-07, 12:15 PM	(Can we PLEASE not have this discussion again, just read the ******** LGCS people!) And it going to keep coming up again until they make it obvios. it's not clear in the "GORRAM" LGCS.
pedr 07-03-07, 12:23 PM	And it going to keep coming up again until they make it obvios. it's not clear in the "GORRAM" LGCS.(Which bit of 'If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC' is unclear?)
Dr.Cornelius 07-03-07, 02:21 PM	Paladin / Silver Dragon Shaman has a lot of RP flavor and potential. The build has unparalleled saves and should be very survivable. Dragon Shaman healing is minor at best. My first inclination is to take Senses, Vigor and Energy Shield draconic auras and cork up on AC. Unfortunately, max AC does not fit with any of your feats. Sticking with a 2H weapon might make the Power aura a better choice, but I don't think Extra Smite is worth it unless there is additional synergy. You could still semi-cork with a magic Buckler, Improved Buckler Defense and a Glaive. In any event, I would retrain Cleave and EWP(Dwarven Warpike). Consider Close Quarters Fighting to counter grapplemonsters. A more offensive option is Improved Bull Rush leading into Shock Trooper. You could also go with Alertness - it stacks nicely with Senses and the campaign card Not This Time to have a decent chance of not being surprised and making every save. Marshal is a cool idea, but it is tempting to stick with Dragon Shaman for at least 5 levels to pick up Aura +2. The downside is Dragon Shaman 5 is a +0 BAB level, so a 3-4 level dip is efficient too. Anyway, its a neat character and I look forward to sitting across the table.
Mocoso 07-03-07, 02:23 PM	(Which bit of 'If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC' is unclear?) please see other topics on this and not troll here
Grantor 07-03-07, 03:32 PM	(Which bit of 'If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC' is unclear?) If you must make non-constructive comments like this, please limit them to the person they are directed at, via a private message. I found little to interest me in that message and do not feel that it was really meant for everyone reading this thread.
Biota 07-03-07, 05:11 PM	Dragon Shaman healing is minor at best. My first inclination is to take Senses, Vigor and Energy Shield draconic auras and cork up on AC. Unfortunately, max AC does not fit with any of your feats. Sticking with a 2H weapon might make the Power aura a better choice, but I don't think Extra Smite is worth it unless there is additional synergy. You could still semi-cork with a magic Buckler, Improved Buckler Defense and a Glaive. Those are exactly the first three auras I took. Senses for outside of combat. The Vigor aura is incredibly useful especially as a Paladin since I can stabilize friend and foe alike by just changing the aura and who I direct it at. It can also potentially save quite a lot of out of combat healing if you have time to spend waiting for it. The Power aura probably edges out the energy shield, but energy shield was just too cool to not take. In any event, I would retrain Cleave and EWP(Dwarven Warpike). Consider Close Quarters Fighting to counter grapplemonsters. A more offensive option is Improved Bull Rush leading into Shock Trooper. You could also go with Alertness - it stacks nicely with Senses and the campaign card Not This Time to have a decent chance of not being surprised and making every save. I considered Close Quarters Fighting, but couldn't take it at 3rd level due to the fact that I only had a +2 BAB. Is it legal to retrain a feat I took at first level (Cleave) into a feat that I only now at 4th level qualify for? EWP dwarven warpike actually still feels like a good feat. Compared to a glaive it can set for charge, trip, and does an average of 1.5 more damage per hit (2d6 as opposed to 1d10). Alertness is an interesting idea, I'd finally get to use Not This Time! Marshal is a cool idea, but it is tempting to stick with Dragon Shaman for at least 5 levels to pick up Aura +2. The downside is Dragon Shaman 5 is a +0 BAB level, so a 3-4 level dip is efficient too. Right now I think my plan is to keep on going with dragon shaman and only take something else if it really pops out at me.
Sieylianna 07-03-07, 06:38 PM	The issue I see with the unusual base classes is that most of the time you don't know whether the person is talking about a home game, Xendrik Expeditions or something else. It would be nice if posters would make that explicit up front. Ed
awroe 07-04-07, 06:40 PM	I considered Close Quarters Fighting, but couldn't take it at 3rd level due to the fact that I only had a +2 BAB. Is it legal to retrain a feat I took at first level (Cleave) into a feat that I only now at 4th level qualify for? No, you can only retrain it for something you qualified for at that level. However, you don't need to have had access at that level to take the feat. If you were going ahead with the Marshal level, you could take SF(Diplomacy) as the first level feat and use the Marshal level to pick up CQF. Two levels of Marshal could be good, as you can pick the +1 to Melee attacks to help combat the BAB loss. If you do go the Marshal route, focus on Charisma for lots of synergies. Sure, you won't be the best fighter of the pack, but you'll have decent saves, give your allies some good buffs, save on a good amount of out of combat healing spells, be able to cure 110hp of damage (11th level and a +5 char modifier), and have a +5 marshal aura (which could be dex, to give +8 to everyones init when combined with senses).
_metz_ 07-04-07, 08:24 PM	If you must make non-constructive comments like this, please limit them to the person they are directed at, via a private message. I found little to interest me in that message and do not feel that it was really meant for everyone reading this thread. the Same could be said for the statement that triggered this. I am pretty sorry, but the whole appendix is based on that one statement. If you don't read it the appendix is meaningless. There is nothing unclear about it, its in plain, simple english with defined categories. (open, closed, and neither, which requires accessas stipulated.)
Morgen 07-04-07, 10:57 PM	I've played a Dragon Shaman, not in LG but in a home campaign. It's a very nice solid class that should work well in the LG world. Just do what you think, breath, heal when you need too and keep up those auras. You're invited to come to High Folk and help my Paladin kill evil dragons.
jstorrie 07-04-07, 11:38 PM	Don't multiclass into Marshal with a 14 Cha, it's not worth it. Go Paladin 2 / Dragon Shaman 13 and you'll do fine.
Mommy was an Orc 07-05-07, 11:32 AM	Don't multiclass into Marshal with a 14 Cha, it's not worth it. Go Paladin 2 / Dragon Shaman 13 and you'll do fine. I don't think Dragon Shaman's all that great of a class. The 1 level dip is unbelievably amazing(essentially +1 to init/spot/listen before combat, +1 damage to melee attacks during combat, and heal everyone to half after combat - and worst of all, not stat dependent), but the rest of it is mediocre. In a sense, it is the Reserve Feat class.
Dr.Cornelius 07-06-07, 02:55 AM	MwaO is right - Dragon Shaman is much like a Marshal but without the Charisma requirement. In hindsight they should have made it a bit less front-loaded, or at least put in better reasons to stay past a level or three. That being said, I don't think it is any more broken than any of the more common dips, like light fighters starting with a level of Barbarian.