Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 11:34 AM	So, I first started playing D&D back in 01' I was 15 and completely green when it came to character creation. For LG I started a wild elf (I heard I could be one :( ) Ranger going Ranger/Barbarian TWF. At about level 2 I think someone informed me that wild elf was infact not a race choice and they were nice enough to play it off and assume I picked wood elf and wrote it down wrong. So, I re-adjusted (kept same base scores and applied wood elf adjustments instead of the awesome +2 dex -2 int :( ) my stats and was left with STR 16 DEX 16 CON 12 WIS 12 INT 10 CHA 8 Five years go by, character dies a bunch. He converts from Rng 4/Bbn 3/Ftr 2 to Rng 1/Ftr 8 going for 3.0 tempest to his current Rog 3/Bbn 2/Ftr 2/Pious Templar 5. Now, I have a blast playing the guy. It's a mini-game for me now. See if this character whose had more work done than Michael Jackson can make it to retirement or if one of his eventual deaths going to be non-recoverable. So, I need your help. I want to do something with this guy to make him not become a hindrance on the party. Due to my uhh, how should I say, frequent adventures to Corellon, my character has accumulated a rather above average wealth. He has +4 str/dex/con stat bump items, a +1 holy Cold Iron Longsword, +1 mighty (+4) comp longbow, +1 Light Fort Animated Green Dragoncraft heavy shield, +1 Mithral breastplate, +3 vest of Reistance, +2 ring of protection, Special certed Mantle that gives me a luck reroll, Lens of Detection, Goggles of Minute Seeing, and I think that's all I'm at work right now so I don't have the character with me. My skills are (ugh I know I have no clue why I didn't take rogue at first) 4 ranks in Knowledge: Religion 15 ranks in search 15 ranks in disable 10 ranks in open lock My feats, iirc, are Weapon Focus: Longsword Weapon Spec: Longsword Imp Crit: Longsword Imp Toughness Staggering Strike Tactile Trapsmith Power Attack True Believer Something else I get 9 total and these are in no particular order. The guy trap finds well. +30 to search with lens and goggles, +20 to disable (I use to divine insight it up to +30 when I find the trap but noooo). With an 18 con (2 bumps + amulet) and imp toughness his hitpoints are decent, his saves are decent, Will being his worst, his AC is poor, less than 30 as a front-liner, and with his new animated shield his damage has increased with power attack becoming viable. My question is though, what do I do with him now? level 12 was rogue 3 so I could max search and disable, if I go rogue 4 at 13th I get an exp penalty (note: I want to retire this guy as fast as possible), I could take pious templar up higher but the lack of skills doesn't look to appetizing. I could take ranger 1 or barbarian 3, and there are probably some PrCs I qualify for but don't know about. So please, help out poor Reik, he needs all he can get (insert cute puppy picture here)
kegdrainer 01-09-07, 01:28 PM	What is the problem that you are running into when adventuring? Do you find it hard to hit things or are you getting hit too many times? From what I see, the build is more light infantry so you should not be tanking. You and another light infantry or rogue should be playing tag team with the bad guys. Problem 1) Pious Templar 5. You dont have the WIS to get 3rd level spells and there nothing that really helps the build as far as I can tell. Problem 2) When you converted to 3.0, you might have been better of sticking with the TWF build that you had. With the high Dex, Strength, and 2d6 SA, you should have TWF in the build and just use long swords. Also, what other magic items do you have? At your level, you should have every slot filled with some type of magic item. (Head, bracers, boots and a ring slot are empty) Also, what is the order that you took the classes?
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 01:40 PM	Those slots are empty :( I've not gotten the best acess and deaths got a lot more expensive since 3.5. As far as your problems Problem 1) Forgot to mention by lvl 12 bump was in wisdom so I'm up to a 13 now so if I grab I think 6th level I'll have 1 3rd level spell. Problem 2) I'm pretty sure at the conversion CV wasn't out yet so I didn't think tempest would be brought back, as it should've been in Complete Warrior, thus I dropped TWF. Oh also my Rng 1/Ftr 8 was a the 3.5 conversion but the 3.0 tempest was still being used. My conversion after that one was when I added the rogue levels. As far as my combat role, I don't really have anything that stop me from being a front-liner. No Spring attack, no tumble, no elusive target to dodge power attacks. I mean, my guy does pretty good against multiple hit monsters, once making a dragon fail my fort save with power attack + divine sacrifice. I mean, I get up to the guy to hit him, and there isn't really anything to stop me from getting hit back harder.
kegdrainer 01-09-07, 03:49 PM	Not many other choices left. Just looking at the Core, Complete, and Races books, there is not much you can get. The lack of other feats/skills that might help you get into another prestige class is hurting you at this stage. a.) Stay in PT for the last levels. (Downside, unless you get something to boost your WIS, you will not get the 4th level spells.) b.) Take PT to get the 3rd level spell and then Barbarian and Fighter to finish it off. (Fighter 3 is useless for you) c.) I was going to suggest Divine Crusader but you do not have the Charisma for the spells. It would give you the domain ability, so Celerity might help. d.) Take a look at your AR's and see what other prestige classes you have access. Not much else I can offer.
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 04:13 PM	How about 13th I pick up Pious templar, and at 14th and 15th I do Ranger. That gives me 14 skill points, 3 more bab, 1d10 2d8 hd, +4 fort +4 ref +1 will and I guess rapid shot and track. Doesn't seem too bad.
Mommy was an Orc 01-09-07, 04:16 PM	I think a big problem here is that you're 12th level, not 11th. 12th level being open gives you a feat choice and some skill points to put towards your build. At the moment, you've pretty much made your choices - I'd likely figure out how to boost your AC through your purchases to get yourself a little bit more frontliner type protection. I'd get the PT 6, it is pretty solid. PT 8 actually has its charms, with the 2 feats that you then get to use at 15th level...
kegdrainer 01-09-07, 04:18 PM	As long at you live that long, that would work. Another option is to put the character on semi-retirement and see what happens in LG.
UMiskatonic 01-09-07, 05:32 PM	You're a front liner, no doubt in my mind. You're only -1 Bab from a fighter of your level, and in return you have rage, 2d6 sneak attack, and solid trapfinding ability. Plus both Mettle and evasion. With your 12th level feat open, you might be able to make it into the following: w/ Imp. Init = Occult Slayer w/Iron Will = Holy Liberator w/ Extra Rage = Barbarian 3 as is = ranger, Pious Templar w/ Leadership = way cooler w/TWF = more damage when flanking You ARE raging, and using the longsword in two hands, right? Consider buying the following: potion of blur potion of barkskin potion of enlarge person a wizard/cleric buddy who can cast haste, stalwart pact, enlarge person, etc. Saving to fill the magic item slots that are still open.
Alpha_Nerd 01-10-07, 02:29 AM	My 12th level feat was tactile trapsmith, so its already spent. I am raging and using the longsword 2-handed. I have to pray that the monster goes down before I do as it hits most attacks. If I play with some nice buffers a couple magic vestments and a barkskin or +4-5 shield of faith makes this guy pretty beefy, but that's very situational.
kegdrainer 01-10-07, 07:01 AM	If your track record is as good as it seems, you might be seeing 12th level again and can make the changes at that time. Sorry, there is not much to offer you with the current character. (Semi)Retirement might be an option if you feel that you are not enjoying the character or it is a threat to the rest of the party members.
UMiskatonic 01-10-07, 10:17 AM	I have to pray that the monster goes down before I do, as it hits most attacks. What is the rest of the group doing, while you deal with the monsters? You should either have loads of spells to help you, or volleys of arrows, or another melee guy standing next to you. Is it possible that you've seen the gap between the combat builds and the role-playing builds appear? It's not a big deal at APL 2, but a poorly built 12th level character isn't even half as effective as a good one. APL 12 will also seperate out the tactically sound people. Your ally might be the fightingist cleric in the world if he gets three rounds to prepare, but he won't get those rounds, and if he does, it comes at the expense of the party, who has gotten killed in the meantime. If you have to do everything else yourself, then yeah, you'll get killed a lot. I think you've got a sound 12th level guy. But you, alone, are not a solid APL 12 party.
Alpha_Nerd 01-10-07, 10:39 AM	Heh Keg, this is already my third time at 12th level, hoping to finally hit 13. It's not that I don't enjoy playing him it's just that I thought I might have been a hindrance due to the fact that he's had to go through a lot of conversions and such. It's good to hear he's not as bad as I thought.
clannagh 01-10-07, 05:57 PM	you could just do something random like bear warrior :)
Japangirl 01-10-07, 06:32 PM	I stand next to him a lot! Well, not next to him. Actually, across from the BBEG from him. I hurt a lot more than he does (four attacks of 6d6 sneak attack each).