Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EntilzhaSheridan 10-17-06, 11:33 PM	Greetings all. I've looked around for any quarterstaff fighter builds, but couldn't find anything (especially for Living Greyhawk). So if it's been talked about, I apologize (and a link to it would be nice :)) I've been toying around with the idea of a Quarterstaff Two Weapon Fighter to use in LG, but not 100% sure on how I should make the build. I think I'd like to start him off with something like Monk 2 / Fighter 4, but from there, I'm not sure where to take him. Some thoughts have been Pious Templar, but other than that I'm rather stumped. (The reason I'd like to go with Monk, other than for roleplaying reasons, is due to the region of Ket and their frowning of you using lethal damage against other people. Except for Elves, heh). So far, here is what I was thinking: Human Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Pious Templar 10 Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1) Monk 1 Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 2) Monk 2 Combat Reflexes, Evasion 3) Fighter 1 Improved Buckler Defense, Combat Expertise 4) Fighter 2 Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), Dex: 17 5) Fighter 3 --- 6) Fighter 4 True Believer, Improved Toughness 7) Pious Templar 1 Mettle 8) Pious Templar 2 Smite 1/day, Dex: 18 9) Pious Templar 3 Improved Two Weapon Fighting, DR 1/-, Weapon Specialization (Quarterstaff) 10) Pious Templar 4 Improved Combat Expertise 11) Pious Templar 5 --- 12) Pious Templar 6 Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Smite 2/day, Dex: 19 13) Pious Templar 7 DR 2/- 14) Pious Templar 8 Dodge 15) Pious Templar 9 Quick Staff 16) Pious Templar 10 Smite 3/day, Dex: 20 The idea would be to use oils of Shillelagh on my quarterstaff to significantly increase the damage size. And if it's available, to get Brambles or Spikes cast on me by the party healer once or twice during the mod. I plan on wearing light armor, and if I'm lucky to find Mithral Breastplate for armor, and picking up a buckler and use Improved Buckler Defense. And picking up Power Attack, so I can use it as a two handed weapon to overcome creatures with DR. Although this, I think, is a decent build, I was curious if there might be something that I'm forgetting. Thanks a bunch.
DuctShuiTengu 10-18-06, 12:13 AM	I'd seriously recommend getting Quick Staff earlier in this build. I'm not sure where exactly, but it does enough for you that I wouldn't recommend waiting until 15th level for it. One rather major concern I would have about this build: quarterstaffs (or whatever the plural is) are wood. That means no silver, cold iron, or adamantine quarterstaffs. So anything with those kinds of DR is going to screw you over unless you switch to a back-up weapon (at which point you aren't getting to take advantage of all your nifty quarterstaff feats). Also, given the lack of Wisdom, are you sure that Pious Templar is the best choice for you? Though I'll admit, the smiting, bonus feats, and DR are pretty tempting.
Lupo 10-18-06, 02:55 AM	Greetings all. I've looked around for any quarterstaff fighter builds, but couldn't find anything (especially for Living Greyhawk). So if it's been talked about, I apologize (and a link to it would be nice :)) I've been toying around with the idea of a Quarterstaff Two Weapon Fighter to use in LG, but not 100% sure on how I should make the build. I think I'd like to start him off with something like Monk 2 / Fighter 4, but from there, I'm not sure where to take him. Some thoughts have been Pious Templar, but other than that I'm rather stumped. (The reason I'd like to go with Monk, other than for roleplaying reasons, is due to the region of Ket and their frowning of you using lethal damage against other people. Except for Elves, heh). So far, here is what I was thinking: Human Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Pious Templar 10 Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1) Monk 1 Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 2) Monk 2 Combat Reflexes, Evasion 3) Fighter 1 Improved Buckler Defense, Combat Expertise 4) Fighter 2 Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), Dex: 17 5) Fighter 3 --- 6) Fighter 4 True Believer, Improved Toughness 7) Pious Templar 1 Mettle 8) Pious Templar 2 Smite 1/day, Dex: 18 9) Pious Templar 3 Improved Two Weapon Fighting, DR 1/-, Weapon Specialization (Quarterstaff) 10) Pious Templar 4 Improved Combat Expertise 11) Pious Templar 5 --- 12) Pious Templar 6 Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Smite 2/day, Dex: 19 13) Pious Templar 7 DR 2/- 14) Pious Templar 8 Dodge 15) Pious Templar 9 Quick Staff 16) Pious Templar 10 Smite 3/day, Dex: 20 The idea would be to use oils of Shillelagh on my quarterstaff to significantly increase the damage size. And if it's available, to get Brambles or Spikes cast on me by the party healer once or twice during the mod. I plan on wearing light armor, and if I'm lucky to find Mithral Breastplate for armor, and picking up a buckler and use Improved Buckler Defense. And picking up Power Attack, so I can use it as a two handed weapon to overcome creatures with DR. Although this, I think, is a decent build, I was curious if there might be something that I'm forgetting. Thanks a bunch. apart from the DR problem you are foregoing some monk's bonus abilities and the pious templar's spellcasting abilities with your low wisdom, therefore you expect some other party members to buff your character while you actually could do it yourself. when wearing armor you dump some of the monk's abilities as well, so why not start with ranger right away?? and get an mercyfull enhancment on the quarterstaff. to overcome DR decently you need something like: 1st round oil your quarterstaff or other weapon enhancements AND wait for your party arcanist to enlarge you. (note: the wording of shillelagh "nonmagical quarterstaff", implies an exclusively use of it, either GMW, spikes, brambles OR shillelagh.) i toyed around with a similar build (monk 8 => pious templar [pholtus] but dropped it - among other reasons - for the DR issues) ciao martin m.
trollbill 10-18-06, 09:55 AM	Closest thing I have to a Quarterstaff fighter in LG is a Druid who fights with TWF, Shillelagh and a Masterwork Elvencraft Bow.
Iswald 10-18-06, 11:41 AM	If you are going to take monk for the flurry, then you need to have a good wisdom since you cannot use your flurry while wearing armor. I had posted this a bit over a year ago on the lgchardiscussion group: Monk 12/exotic weapon master 1/fighter 2/barbarian 1 or something 12 levels of monk to max flurry benefits and abundant step. 1 level of EWM for the exotic weapon flurry. The remaining three levels because you can't go back to monk and don't need to. 8 Feats: EWP (longstaff), weapon focus (longstaff), TWF (dex 15), Imp TWF (dex 17, BAB +6), Greater TWF (dex 19, BAB +11), three other feats Longstaff (CV) is an exotic double weapon that is also a monk special weapon. BAB +12/+7/+2 Monk flurry +12/+12/+12/+7/+2 EWM + Monk flurry +10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+0 + TWF feats: primary: +8/+8/+8/+8/+3/-2 offhand: +8/+3/-2 These don't include bonuses from str, weapon focus, etc. The penalty is only -4 (-2 for TWF and -2 for EWM flurry). Haste and some other better (for monks) methods also grant an extra attack at your highest BAB. Possibly 10 attacks with a full attack which wouldn't all have to be taken with your longstaff. If you went with a full BAB build, you would have one more attack from your BAB, but would lose two attacks from not having taken monk for the flurry ability. Also, with a full BAB build, you'd get your last attack when you retire. This version could give you your last attack at level 15. This build has a major drawback since you may never see a longstaff. You would also have to put three stat bumps into dex rather than str. At that point, you may as well put your last bump into dex as well. Hopefully, you'll have taken combat reflexes at monk 2 for additional attacks through AoOs. I don't know that this was a particularly effective build since the goal was just to have a large number of attacks with a low penalty. But, you could modify it to work with a simple quarterstaff. Start as a fighter, take one or two levels, then go into monk for 12 levels and follow it with a second fighter level if you only started with one and a level of barbarian. Drop ewp [longstaff] and weapon focus [longstaff] for power attack if you can get your strength high enough. Take some of the stunning fist feats. When facing high DR, use your quarterstaff as a two handed weapon and power attack. You should still be able to flurry with your staff, but all of your off hand attacks would have to be improved unarmed strikes (which would be fine since the base damage (2d6 for a 12th level monk) is twice a staff's. Like typical for a monk, stats are a problem. 14 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha? It would not allow for quick staff.
Ki Ryn 10-18-06, 10:22 PM	Closest thing I have to a Quarterstaff fighter in LG is a Druid who fights with TWF, Shillelagh and a Masterwork Elvencraft Bow. Sorry if it's off topic, but when you use a Masterwork Elvencraft Bow as a melee weapon, does it still grant a +1 bonus to hit (for being mastercraft)? If not, do you have to make it a mastercraft bow AND mastercraft club (or quarterstaff), paying for each (and then for each end in the case of a quarterstaff)? If that's the case, you're looking at 1600gp for a decent bow and it's not even magic, which brings up the question "how often do LG DM's sunder player weapons?" :eek: But to return to topic, an elvencraft longbow can be used as a quarterstaff so that's something to consider if you're going to be a staff fighter.
trollbill 10-19-06, 12:03 AM	Sorry if it's off topic, but when you use a Masterwork Elvencraft Bow as a melee weapon, does it still grant a +1 bonus to hit (for being mastercraft)? If not, do you have to make it a mastercraft bow AND mastercraft club (or quarterstaff), paying for each (and then for each end in the case of a quarterstaff)? If that's the case, you're looking at 1600gp for a decent bow and it's not even magic, which brings up the question "how often do LG DM's sunder player weapons?" :eek: But to return to topic, an elvencraft longbow can be used as a quarterstaff so that's something to consider if you're going to be a staff fighter. Yeah, I had to pay to get it triple-masterworked. Once for the bow, once for each end of the quarterstaff portion of the weapon. And I had to pay for a +2 strength bonus for the bow on top of that. So it's pretty much my entire character wealth at the moment. Can't get any part of it magic, either, or I can't Shillelagh it. No one's tried to Sunder it yet, but I'm still low level with this character.
Reylance 10-19-06, 12:23 PM	You could go the fighting cleric route. Joramy has the War domain and favored weapon of quarterstaff. You could build for the typical combat cleric route of Quicken Spell and buffing spells, just choosing Two Weapon Fighting instead of Power Attack.
copper_wyrmling 10-20-06, 01:15 AM	You could go the fighting cleric route. Joramy has the War domain and favored weapon of quarterstaff. You could build for the typical combat cleric route of Quicken Spell and buffing spells, just choosing Two Weapon Fighting instead of Power Attack. As someone who's done this for 14 levels (cleric of Joramy who two-weapon-fights with a staff), it works okay, but in the absence of hours / level Spikes, you'll generally feel inferior to the standard two-handed power-attacking builds because they didn't have to sink so many build points into Dex. Also the TWF tree takes a lot of feats if you want to keep up your number of attacks, and clerics are notoriously low on feats.
Jay_Ibero_911 10-27-06, 12:10 AM	You may wish to consider Cleric 6 to get access to spikes and brambles, get divine metamagic quicken, and practiced spellcaster, then at 7th and 8th take fighter levels, and 9th take barbarian and extra rage. You'll be a great melee cleric. Take Joramy as deity to get destruction and war domains for free weapon focus and smite. Build could be something like this: Race:Human Alignment:Neutral(Joramy, War+Destruction) STR-14 (6) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-14 (6) CHA-14 (6) Lv1(Cleric)Quicken Spell, Weapon Focus(Quarterstaff), Extra Turning Lv2(Cleric) Lv3(Cleric)Divine Metamagic(Quicken) Lv4(Cleric)+1 STR Lv5(Cleric) Lv6(Cleric)True Believer Lv7(Fighter)Power Attack Lv8(Fighter)Feat, +1 STR Lv9(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv10(Pious Templar) Lv11(Pious Templar) Lv12(Pious Templar)Practiced Spellcaster(Cleric), Weapon Specialization, +1 STR Lv13(Pious Templar)Bonus Feat Lv14(Pious Templar) Lv15(Pious Templar)Feat Practiced Spellcaster max's out brambles/spikes. Pious Templar stacks with cleric for smiting as well as giving extra smites. You'll be fairly short ranged, but you'll be able to start off a fight with one heck of an attack: DMMQ Spikes, Rage, CHarge, Smite. The only drawback of the rage is you won't be able to do any further casting, but you will be decent at patching yourself up after battle. PLus nice templar abilities. Only lose 2 BAB along the way as well. Feel free to tinker with the feat arangement to taste...
clannagh 10-29-06, 10:51 PM	one somewhat contentious but interesting strategy is this ... LG forbids purchasing items not listed on page 17 and 18 of the LGCS - this basically restricts access to larger items. The PHB states that a club has no cost as it easy to find and fashion .. quarterstaffs also have no costs presumably for the same reason. It is therefore possibly legal to acquire larger versions of quarterstaffs and club simply by picking up bigger sticks. Note this may be seen as going against the actual spirit of the rules and is likley to be very contentious. so .. subject to table variation, it may be possible to take monkey grip quarterstaff pick up a large stick and then shillelagh that for something like 3d8 damage note .. I would not recommend actually building a character around this strat unless you get AR access to a large quarterstaff cos a lot of GM's would slap you around
Arvagor 10-29-06, 11:23 PM	note .. I would not recommend actually building a character around this strat unless you get AR access to a large quarterstaff cos a lot of GM's would slap you aroundNah, I wouldn't slap you around for that (well... OK, I would -- it's cheese of the stinkiest variety). What I'd slap you around for is, you've chosen to be a pious templar, yet you've abandoned the site you've sworn to defend to go off adventuring! What's up with that? ;)
Lupo 10-30-06, 09:51 AM	one somewhat contentious but interesting strategy is this ... LG forbids purchasing items not listed on page 17 and 18 of the LGCS - this basically restricts access to larger items. The PHB states that a club has no cost as it easy to find and fashion .. quarterstaffs also have no costs presumably for the same reason. It is therefore possibly legal to acquire larger versions of quarterstaffs and club simply by picking up bigger sticks. Note this may be seen as going against the actual spirit of the rules and is likley to be very contentious. so .. subject to table variation, it may be possible to take monkey grip quarterstaff pick up a large stick and then shillelagh that for something like 3d8 damage note .. I would not recommend actually building a character around this strat unless you get AR access to a large quarterstaff cos a lot of GM's would slap you around by laws of nature for the living greyhawk universe all sticks that a player run character picks up suddenly resize to a normal medium weapon. the effect is supernatural and inevitable ;), unless the player can immediatly present a document - centaur level 6 or specific AR - anihilating this natural law. ciao martin m. edit: ok, there is ONE way around this, make sure to always share a table of LG with a large centauer character (even a cohort of yours would be sufficient, if you can find acces to such a thingy), this centauer picks up a big stick, hands it over to you, and strangely, against all aforementioned laws of the LG universe it will stay a large club or quarterstaff for the rest of the module.
_m_ 10-30-06, 06:43 PM	by laws of nature for the living greyhawk universe all sticks that a player run character picks up suddenly resize to a normal medium weapon. the effect is supernatural and inevitable ;), unless the player can immediatly present a document - centaur level 6 or specific AR - anihilating this natural law. ciao martin m. edit: ok, there is ONE way around this, make sure to always share a table of LG with a large centauer character (even a cohort of yours would be sufficient, if you can find acces to such a thingy), this centauer picks up a big stick, hands it over to you, and strangely, against all aforementioned laws of the LG universe it will stay a large club or quarterstaff for the rest of the module. how do you think i feel? i pick up a tree and it resizes to a twig (gnome). meanwhile, it is easy for me to get a medium quater staff.
clannagh 10-30-06, 08:48 PM	well if lupo is correct you just point to the stick you want and get a medium sized creature to pick it up not sure if monkey grip is a huge benefit for a small creature though