Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hariman 03-19-07, 04:06 AM	Hello all (and thanks in advance), I'm considering making a human hexblade that wields a reach weapon as a new character for LG. The only (major) problem that I see is that a Hexblade's AC is so well tanked by the lack of shield usage and restriction to light armor means that the character's AC will be rather abysmal. And reach weapons have their limitations. Unless I want to use the cheese-o-matic spiked chain. The only damage dealing build that I can think of is: High Dex, Elven Courtblade, (Although there is nothing that says that you can't use an Elven Thinblade with power attack) and either a Chain Shirt or Mithral Medium Armor. I really wish the Hexblade would get a little upgrade. Paladins get more than the Hexblade. Hariman PS: I'm planning on having Ability Focus (Hexblades Curse) be one of the first level feats.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-19-07, 11:49 AM	Hello all (and thanks in advance), I'm considering making a human hexblade that wields a reach weapon as a new character for LG. The only (major) problem that I see is that a Hexblade's AC is so well tanked by the lack of shield usage and restriction to light armor means that the character's AC will be rather abysmal. And reach weapons have their limitations. Unless I want to use the cheese-o-matic spiked chain. The only damage dealing build that I can think of is: High Dex, Elven Courtblade, (Although there is nothing that says that you can't use an Elven Thinblade with power attack) and either a Chain Shirt or Mithral Medium Armor. I really wish the Hexblade would get a little upgrade. Paladins get more than the Hexblade. Hariman PS: I'm planning on having Ability Focus (Hexblades Curse) be one of the first level feats. Interesting idea. You might want to consider going with a penalty focus with a straight hexblade, like combining the cures with intimidating strike and brutal strike, and possibly staggering strike if you throw in a rogue level. Something like this: Race:Human Alignment:Any non-good STR-15 (8) DEX-14 (6) CON-14 (6) INT-10 (2) WIS-8 () CHA-14 (6) Lv1(Hexblade)Power Attack, Intimidating Strike Lv2(Hexblade) Lv3(Hexblade)Ability Focus (Curse) Lv4(Hexblade)+1 STR Lv5(Hexblade)Spell Focus (Enchantment) Lv6(Hexblade)Brutal Strike Lv7(Hexblade) Lv8(Hexblade)+1 STR Lv9(Hexblade)Craft Wondrous Item Lv10(Rogue) Lv11(Rogue) Lv12(Hexblade)Staggering Strike, Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), +1 STR Lv13(Hexblade) Lv14(Hexblade) Lv15(Hexblade)Feat With a standard action and a free action, you can potentially render your target shaken, sickened, staggered, and cursed. You also have mettle and evasion, and decent saves all around (especially if you take rat familiar for +2 fort save), and the ability to make your own belt of giant strength and cloak of charisma. Not much reach weapon synergy with Hexblade unfortunately.
Jamesps 03-19-07, 03:14 PM	Another option if you're worried about your AC is taking a level of Knight. It's effectively a +1 to hit and damage, and you can move up to heavy armor if you so wish. Combine with battle caster and mithral armor at higher levels and you don't even have to give up any spellcasting. Alternatively just pick up hour per level and verbal only spells and you don't need the mithral/battle caster.
Mommy was an Orc 03-19-07, 05:34 PM	Hexblade can be perfectly workable, the problem is that it doesn't really have a lot of charisma synergy. Also, it has a horrible Fort save for the things that frontliners worry about. Which is why it is a weak class by itself, but not too bad. You just need to dip a lot... i.e. Marshal 1-3, Barbarian 1-2, Fighter 1-4, Rogue 1-3, and/or Outcast Champion 1-5. Monk 1-2+Enlightened Fist 4 can be fun as well.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-19-07, 06:00 PM	Hexblade can be perfectly workable, the problem is that it doesn't really have a lot of charisma synergy. Also, it has a horrible Fort save for the things that frontliners worry about. Which is why it is a weak class by itself, but not too bad. You just need to dip a lot... i.e. Marshal 1-3, Barbarian 1-2, Fighter 1-4, Rogue 1-3, and/or Outcast Champion 1-5. Monk 1-2+Enlightened Fist 4 can be fun as well. Maybe it's just cause my DM's metagame a lot...but from what I've seen will save is most important for a frontliner followed by reflex...the fort saves always seem to fly at the guys in the rear...
LachlarlanIII 03-19-07, 06:03 PM	Hexblade can be perfectly workable, the problem is that it doesn't really have a lot of charisma synergy. Also, it has a horrible Fort save for the things that frontliners worry about. Which is why it is a weak class by itself, but not too bad. You just need to dip a lot... i.e. Marshal 1-3, Barbarian 1-2, Fighter 1-4, Rogue 1-3, and/or Outcast Champion 1-5. Monk 1-2+Enlightened Fist 4 can be fun as well. Really? I've got a Hexblade build in the making that has nearly +35 to Fort saves using only 3 classes at 15th. Hexblade 4/Marshal 1/Dragon Disciple 10 ~+10 base ~+9 Arcane Resistance ~+9 Con modifier +5 Cloak/Vest of Resistance +33 Total vs Magical spells and effects. +24 Total vs non-magical effects. A pure Hexblade can be nearly as high if it keeps its Cha and Con high.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-19-07, 06:05 PM	Really? I've got a Hexblade build in the making that has nearly +35 to Fort saves using only 3 classes at 15th. Hexblade 4/Marshal 1/Dragon Disciple 10 ~+10 base ~+9 Arcane Resistance ~+9 Con modifier +5 Cloak/Vest of Resistance +33 Total vs Magical spells and effects. +24 Total vs non-magical effects. A pure Hexblade can be nearly as high if it keeps its Cha and Con high. Don't forget they can take a rat familiar for a +2 boost.
LachlarlanIII 03-19-07, 06:12 PM	Quick concern: Isn't each Curse a different ability? If so, wouldn't he want to take Ability Focus later in his career when he's got his best possible Curse?
Mommy was an Orc 03-19-07, 06:18 PM	Really? I've got a Hexblade build in the making that has nearly +35 to Fort saves using only 3 classes at 15th. Hexblade 4/Marshal 1/Dragon Disciple 10 That's not exactly a 'pure' Hexblade build. That's a Dragon Disciple build that uses Hexblade...
Mommy was an Orc 03-19-07, 06:21 PM	Maybe it's just cause my DM's metagame a lot...but from what I've seen will save is most important for a frontliner followed by reflex...the fort saves always seem to fly at the guys in the rear... Fort Saves tend to be accidental - massive damage DC 15 for a pure hexblade 12(+4 Fort, +4 Con, +4 Vest = missing on a 1-2 instead of a 1), poison attacks, etc...
Jay_Ibero_911 03-19-07, 06:24 PM	Quick concern: Isn't each Curse a different ability? If so, wouldn't he want to take Ability Focus later in his career when he's got his best possible Curse? Greater Hexblade's Curse is not a separate ability, merely an improvement to the base ability, just like rage and greater rage. This is supported by the wording of the ability: Greater Hexblade's Curse (Su): When a hexblade attains 7th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the hexblade's curse becomes -4 instead of -2. It is a change to the original ability. Basically, you have Hexblade's Curse, and ability focus for that, then you gain greater hexblade's curse, which changes what the original ability does.
LachlarlanIII 03-19-07, 07:06 PM	That's not exactly a 'pure' Hexblade build. That's a Dragon Disciple build that uses Hexblade... As I said at the end of my post. A pure Hexblade can be nearly as high. The build above only loses 7 points off it's Fort save. That's still +26 against magical effects and +19 against nonmagical effects. That's still high for a non-primary save.
Mommy was an Orc 03-19-07, 08:00 PM	As I said at the end of my post. A pure Hexblade can be nearly as high. The build above only loses 7 points off it's Fort save. That's still +26 against magical effects and +19 against nonmagical effects. That's still high for a non-primary save. Only if you're spending considerable resources on improving your saves - a pure Hexblade who spends the kind of money and resources that you're doing on Con/Cha is sacrificing pretty much everything else. Hexblades need a good Str, Dex, Con, and Cha. Having a starting 16 in Con and say a 15 in Cha, means you've got something along the lines of a 14 Str/12 Dex in light armor. That's bad if you're not proficient with medium armor...you're wearing Fullplate, so you can hide that poor Dex score...
Hariman 03-20-07, 01:47 AM	I see I have to repeat myself. This character is a PURE HEXBLADE from levels 1 to 15 with NO DIPPING. NO dragon disciple. No rogue dip (although the stacking penalties idea is cool). No marshal. No Knight. Currently, my best thoughts right now are: Human Hexblade (CN) STR: 14 (6) Dex: 14 (6) Con: 14 (6) Int: 10 (2) Wis: 8 (0) Cha: 15 (8) Stat bumps: 4 = Cha 8/12 = STR Level1: Ability Focus/EWP Elven Courtblade (Or Weapon Focus Halberd.) Level3: Power Attack Level6: Cleave or Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item. Levels 9/12/15 are still undecided, and nothing is set in stone yet. Although: STR 10 (2) DEX 16 (10) CON 14 (6) INT 10 (2) WIS 8 (0) CHA 15 (8) Bumping Cha at 4 then Dex at 8/12. Human Hexblade Level 1: Point Blank/Precise Shot Level 3: Ability Focus: Hexblade's Curse Level 6: Rapid Reload or another archery feat (or Improved Familiar) Level 9: Crafting Feat or Practised Spellcaster or Improved Toughness Level 12: Crafting Feat or Combat Feat Level 15: Combat Feat This build would rely on getting access to damage increasing enhancements for a crossbow or bow for increased damage. It's tempting. Opinions? Thoughts? Criticisms? Hariman PS: I'm quite sure that spells can make a huge difference for a Hexblade. So I'd at least max out Concentration, just in case. Mirror Image and Hound of Doom would be spells known. And I'd avoid Greater magic weapon and magic vestment because they don't work that well for a hexblade. (Gimped caster level. Although if they were needed for crafting, that might work.) PPS: I'll have to remember that certain wands work for this character. A "Prot Evil" wand would be good.
Timlagor 03-20-07, 07:47 AM	Using a Crossbow when you can use a Longbow is just foolish ..and a pure Hexblade is already going to be weak (sub-iconic even?)
Mommy was an Orc 03-20-07, 08:09 AM	I see I have to repeat myself. This character is a PURE HEXBLADE from levels 1 to 15 with NO DIPPING. NO dragon disciple. No rogue dip (although the stacking penalties idea is cool). No marshal. No Knight. You do realize you didn't actually say that - you gave the idea that you were attached to a mostly Hexblade build, but no dips? Nope. Currently, my best thoughts right now are: Human Hexblade (CN) STR: 14 (6) Dex: 14 (6) Con: 14 (6) Int: 10 (2) Wis: 8 (0) Cha: 15 (8) Stat bumps: 4 = Cha 8/12 = STR Level1: Ability Focus/EWP Elven Courtblade (Or Weapon Focus Halberd.) Level3: Power Attack Level6: Cleave or Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item. Levels 9/12/15 are still undecided, and nothing is set in stone yet. Although: STR 10 (2) DEX 16 (10) CON 14 (6) INT 10 (2) WIS 8 (0) CHA 15 (8) Yikes. Both of these characters are subiconic, by a lot. A Ranger with the same stats is getting 6 skill points a level, feats applicable to what he does, favored enemy, an animal companion, etc... I've got a friend playing a Hexblade with 1 level of Barbarian, he's 7th level, and his curse has maybe worked 3 times. And even when it does, it isn't that great. About the one interesting pure Hexblade build I've seen takes Practiced Spellcaster at 3rd, Improved Familiar at 6th, then activates his Familiar at 7th for a Hippogriff familiar.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-20-07, 10:14 AM	I see I have to repeat myself. This character is a PURE HEXBLADE from levels 1 to 15 with NO DIPPING. NO dragon disciple. No rogue dip (although the stacking penalties idea is cool). No marshal. No Knight. Currently, my best thoughts right now are: Human Hexblade (CN) STR: 14 (6) Dex: 14 (6) Con: 14 (6) Int: 10 (2) Wis: 8 (0) Cha: 15 (8) Stat bumps: 4 = Cha 8/12 = STR Level1: Ability Focus/EWP Elven Courtblade (Or Weapon Focus Halberd.) Level3: Power Attack Level6: Cleave or Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item. Levels 9/12/15 are still undecided, and nothing is set in stone yet. Although: STR 10 (2) DEX 16 (10) CON 14 (6) INT 10 (2) WIS 8 (0) CHA 15 (8) Bumping Cha at 4 then Dex at 8/12. Human Hexblade Level 1: Point Blank/Precise Shot Level 3: Ability Focus: Hexblade's Curse Level 6: Rapid Reload or another archery feat (or Improved Familiar) Level 9: Crafting Feat or Practised Spellcaster or Improved Toughness Level 12: Crafting Feat or Combat Feat Level 15: Combat Feat This build would rely on getting access to damage increasing enhancements for a crossbow or bow for increased damage. It's tempting. Opinions? Thoughts? Criticisms? Hariman PS: I'm quite sure that spells can make a huge difference for a Hexblade. So I'd at least max out Concentration, just in case. Mirror Image and Hound of Doom would be spells known. And I'd avoid Greater magic weapon and magic vestment because they don't work that well for a hexblade. (Gimped caster level. Although if they were needed for crafting, that might work.) PPS: I'll have to remember that certain wands work for this character. A "Prot Evil" wand would be good. I have to agree with MwaO here...Hexblade 15, especially with those feat selections, is gonna be pretty weak. Cleave is an especially poor choice because you will likely not be dropping anyone that often with such low damage. Hexblade 13 gets you all you could really want out of the class. Without some of the special abilities of other classes, you are never gonna be able to compete with iconics. You need to capitallize one something the hexblade gets and maximize it's potential, like going with a penalty focus, or going with charisma synergy by mixing in marshal, or using hexblade casting to get to dragon disciple with minimal bab loss, or even a barbarian level to get some reasonable damage. Hexblade has a lot of potential when mixed properly, but what you seem to be trying for is so generic and sub-optimal. If that's what you like then enjoy, but know you can do so much more with the class.
Hariman 03-20-07, 10:44 PM	I have to agree with MwaO here...Hexblade 15, especially with those feat selections, is gonna be pretty weak. Cleave is an especially poor choice because you will likely not be dropping anyone that often with such low damage. Hexblade 13 gets you all you could really want out of the class. Without some of the special abilities of other classes, you are never gonna be able to compete with iconics. You need to capitallize one something the hexblade gets and maximize it's potential, like going with a penalty focus, or going with charisma synergy by mixing in marshal, or using hexblade casting to get to dragon disciple with minimal bab loss, or even a barbarian level to get some reasonable damage. Hexblade has a lot of potential when mixed properly, but what you seem to be trying for is so generic and sub-optimal. If that's what you like then enjoy, but know you can do so much more with the class. What options do I have to specialize this character without Multiclassing out of Hexblade? Keep in mind that I haven't set anything in stone beyond "Hexblade only". (Because this is a prior character from a campaign whose DM moved away and I'd like to replay the character in LG. And I can't go TWFing because I KNOW that is foolish from watching another player's LG TWFing Hexblade.) I once said to another player that a ranged attacking Hexblade was the best kind of Hexblade. Mainly because Hexblades lack the AC to stay in melee/MAD. (Ranged weapons or Finessing are the only way I can eliminate MAD. And that's because STR isn't absolutely vital to a ranged character.) Is there a magic bullet (Like Crossbow Sniper) that can make a ranged Hexblade Better? Or is there a set of feats that can add to this character's melee capabilities? I'm looking for advice on what to do with a pure Hexblade, not multiclassing advice.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-20-07, 11:02 PM	What options do I have to specialize this character without Multiclassing out of Hexblade? Keep in mind that I haven't set anything in stone beyond "Hexblade only". (Because this is a prior character from a campaign whose DM moved away and I'd like to replay the character in LG. And I can't go TWFing because I KNOW that is foolish from watching another player's LG TWFing Hexblade.) I once said to another player that a ranged attacking Hexblade was the best kind of Hexblade. Mainly because Hexblades lack the AC to stay in melee/MAD. (Ranged weapons or Finessing are the only way I can eliminate MAD. And that's because STR isn't absolutely vital to a ranged character.) Is there a magic bullet (Like Crossbow Sniper) that can make a ranged Hexblade Better? Or is there a set of feats that can add to this character's melee capabilities? I'm looking for advice on what to do with a pure Hexblade, not multiclassing advice. Why are you so set on pure hexblade? There is absolutely nothing you can do to make a pure hexblade that won't be sub-iconic. If you melee, you are a generic power attacker, and less effective than a fighter/barbarian. If you are ranged, you are a generic archer, and less effective than a ranger/fighter. A Hexblade 15 is little more than filler, and will have little to off a party no matter how you build it.
Hariman 03-20-07, 11:23 PM	Why are you so set on pure hexblade? There is absolutely nothing you can do to make a pure hexblade that won't be sub-iconic. If you melee, you are a generic power attacker, and less effective than a fighter/barbarian. If you are ranged, you are a generic archer, and less effective than a ranger/fighter. A Hexblade 15 is little more than filler, and will have little to off a party no matter how you build it. Because I choose to. Does anyone have any recommendations for a level 15 Hexblade? I still haven't made any concrete decisions yet. Doesn't Hexblade practically auto-qualify for some prestige classes OTHER than Dragon Disciple?
Timlagor 03-21-07, 08:42 AM	I thought you just said you were sticking with Hex15...
TWG_Prometheus 03-21-07, 09:22 AM	While previous posters may have been correct about a pure Hexblade being subiconic, I don't believe that means that the build is flatly doomed. It's not an easy one to pull off for sure, though, and you need to make sure that you know what you're getting into. More than anything, you need to make sure that you make use of your curse without investing into it heavily and then choose ONE other thing to be really good at because your build won't stretch any further. Handling MAD is a primary topic for Hexblades. A finesse melee build gets around some of the MAD problem, but makes the Hexblade an even thirstier class feat-wise than it already is. The new Deadly Defense feat is helping finesse builds of all varieties out a lot, though, so it's more viable than it used to be. Make sure that you stop and think before boosting any ability score beyond a base 14 of course because you really just don't have the points to go around. First, a pure Hexblade build is also the only build that will truly get full use out of their Curse due to the level component on the DC. Hexblade Curse lacks feat support along the lines of Extra Smiting (and Extra Curse feat would really help the class out) but Ability Focus can make the curse hard to resist. You won't have the Charisma to make your curse truly great, but it doesn't have to be a cakewalk save either. I would wait on Ability Focus until at least 6th unless the 6th or 9th feat slots are already taken, however, because until 5th level you only have one curse per day and that means one use of your Ability Focus feat per day. Your 'something else' focus for your Hexblade is your real purpose. The Curse is a trick...a good one trick but still just a trick. Make sure you don't invest any more into it than that. Making a ranged Hexblade would be one way to overcome their natural tendency toward lower Armor Class. If you go that route, don't fight the 'trendy' way to do things and just take the normal ranged archer progression paths. Get Point-Blank/Precise/Rapid by 3rd and you'll be reasonably good at what you do. The reach weapon Hexblade is another path you could consider in order to avoid some of your lower-AC problems. An ability score array of (Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 14) applied to a Wood Elf would give you 18 Strength and 16 Dexterity to start off with as your base stats. The 12 Con is regrettable, but you'd still match the HP of a 14 Con Cleric, Monk or Ranger so I don't think it's totally out of reason. Use the reach weapon to stay out of trouble. You don't have the feats to get Exotic with this build, so I'd recommend something along the lines of a Glaive. Get Weapon Focus at 1st level and Power Attack at 3rd and you'd move along reasonably well. Don't be afraid to fight from behind your party tank (but don't Power Attack with a -4 cover penalty either) and make certain that you aren't signing up for tables *as* the party tank because you'll bleed through your HP total incredibly fast if the heat really comes your way. Invest in that Glaive-or-other weapon's magical damage bonus early and often to keep up on damage, since you won't have Weapon Specialization, Rage, or Smite to help out. Invest in Bull's Strength (Understand that it isn't *necessarily* for you! Make sure you know when to apply it to others in the party) as one of your 2nd level spells, but also consider Whirling Blade and False Life. Play smart to keep yourself from being totally pummeled. You have a reasonable HP total so you might live through it, but the drain on party healing is unjustifiable. Know when to move to flanking positions and when to play it safe. For skills, I'd look toward a diplomacy route unless the local playgroup has that covered already. Your spellcasting isn't good enough to worry about using if you're threatened so I wouldn't worry about Concentration. If Diplomacy is taken care of already, consider Bluff or Intimidate. That said, I do have to agree with others that have stated that a one-level dip could really help a Hexblade out. If you *really* don't want to, that's fine, but make sure that you are going pure while recognizing the cost of it. Note: I did look up that Hound of Doom spell, and it is really impressive. Treat it like your Hexblade Curse though. It's just a cool trick.
Hariman 03-21-07, 10:57 PM	I thought you just said you were sticking with Hex15... Yes, but everybody just throws out Dragon Disciple. I decided to see if any other prestige classes came up. I hear crickets when I listen for other prestige classes. While previous posters may have been correct about a pure Hexblade being subiconic, I don't believe that means that the build is flatly doomed. It's not an easy one to pull off for sure, though, and you need to make sure that you know what you're getting into. More than anything, you need to make sure that you make use of your curse without investing into it heavily and then choose ONE other thing to be really good at because your build won't stretch any further. Handling MAD is a primary topic for Hexblades. A finesse melee build gets around some of the MAD problem, but makes the Hexblade an even thirstier class feat-wise than it already is. The new Deadly Defense feat is helping finesse builds of all varieties out a lot, though, so it's more viable than it used to be. Make sure that you stop and think before boosting any ability score beyond a base 14 of course because you really just don't have the points to go around. I've already come to grips with this. I've actually played two different Hexblades, and both times I could only do one thing. Once was TWFing (With +8 weapons, the DM was a powergamer.) and the other time was Monkey Gripping a Greatsword. (THAT didn't work out well. I already know how bad a screwup that was.) That is why the builds I've posted have either been 15/14/14/14/10/8 or 16/15/14/10/10/8. That's about the most I can squeeze out of 28 points. First, a pure Hexblade build is also the only build that will truly get full use out of their Curse due to the level component on the DC. Hexblade Curse lacks feat support along the lines of Extra Smiting (and Extra Curse feat would really help the class out) but Ability Focus can make the curse hard to resist. You won't have the Charisma to make your curse truly great, but it doesn't have to be a cakewalk save either. I would wait on Ability Focus until at least 6th unless the 6th or 9th feat slots are already taken, however, because until 5th level you only have one curse per day and that means one use of your Ability Focus feat per day. Your 'something else' focus for your Hexblade is your real purpose. The Curse is a trick...a good one trick but still just a trick. Make sure you don't invest any more into it than that. True, ability focus should wait until 6th or 9th level. Especially since the -4 curse kicks in at 7th. Alternatively, I could invest in a cloak of charisma. Or a wand of Eagle's Splendor. (If I get access.) Making a ranged Hexblade would be one way to overcome their natural tendency toward lower Armor Class. If you go that route, don't fight the 'trendy' way to do things and just take the normal ranged archer progression paths. Get Point-Blank/Precise/Rapid by 3rd and you'll be reasonably good at what you do. It's vanilla, but Improved Precise Shot and Improved Rapid Shot would be great "capstones" at levels 12 and 15. (Or other, newer archery feats.) I don't think a Crossbow would be worth it, unless I do take Crossbow Sniper. Which is another feat to squeeze in. A longbow could do just as much. The reach weapon Hexblade is another path you could consider in order to avoid some of your lower-AC problems. An ability score array of (Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 14) applied to a Wood Elf would give you 18 Strength and 16 Dexterity to start off with as your base stats. The 12 Con is regrettable, but you'd still match the HP of a 14 Con Cleric, Monk or Ranger so I don't think it's totally out of reason. Use the reach weapon to stay out of trouble. You don't have the feats to get Exotic with this build, so I'd recommend something along the lines of a Glaive. Get Weapon Focus at 1st level and Power Attack at 3rd and you'd move along reasonably well. Don't be afraid to fight from behind your party tank (but don't Power Attack with a -4 cover penalty either) and make certain that you aren't signing up for tables *as* the party tank because you'll bleed through your HP total incredibly fast if the heat really comes your way. Invest in that Glaive-or-other weapon's magical damage bonus early and often to keep up on damage, since you won't have Weapon Specialization, Rage, or Smite to help out. Invest in Bull's Strength (Understand that it isn't *necessarily* for you! Make sure you know when to apply it to others in the party) as one of your 2nd level spells, but also consider Whirling Blade and False Life. Play smart to keep yourself from being totally pummeled. You have a reasonable HP total so you might live through it, but the drain on party healing is unjustifiable. Know when to move to flanking positions and when to play it safe. Whirling Blade is pretty good for a hexblade. Better attack bonus than a pure caster, better weapons and if you can catch three enemies in a line, it outshines any melee full attack you could make. We've got a big pool of players/characters in my area, so only the smaller end of the year games and odd table makeups would be a problem. For skills, I'd look toward a diplomacy route unless the local playgroup has that covered already. Your spellcasting isn't good enough to worry about using if you're threatened so I wouldn't worry about Concentration. If Diplomacy is taken care of already, consider Bluff or Intimidate. With human/10 intelligence the character would have 3 skill points per level. Enough to max out Bluff and Diplomacy, with the remaining points spread around a little. A few in Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft and knowledge Core never hurt much That said, I do have to agree with others that have stated that a one-level dip could really help a Hexblade out. If you *really* don't want to, that's fine, but make sure that you are going pure while recognizing the cost of it. I know I'll be playing a one trick wonder. Hopefully those few tricks will end up being good together. There are some really good spells on the Hexblade List. Glitterdust, Slow, Protection From Arrows, Phantom Threat. The only major disadvantage is the low save DCs for attack spells. Note: I did look up that Hound of Doom spell, and it is really impressive. Treat it like your Hexblade Curse though. It's just a cool trick. It's the fact that it can be dispelled that hurts it the most. But, yeah, for a fight or two a day I'll be able to add an extra threat to the mix. At 12th level and above. (Kvetch) And using Improved Familiar/Augment Familiar would have the same problem. It would be good for a little while, but only for a little while. Not to mention the chance of losing the familiar. And thank you for the advice. Hariman PS: I'm leaning more toward a ranged attacker now. Especially with the availability of special arrows.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-21-07, 11:36 PM	Yes, but everybody just throws out Dragon Disciple. I decided to see if any other prestige classes came up. I hear crickets when I listen for other prestige classes. I've already come to grips with this. I've actually played two different Hexblades, and both times I could only do one thing. Once was TWFing (With +8 weapons, the DM was a powergamer.) and the other time was Monkey Gripping a Greatsword. (THAT didn't work out well. I already know how bad a screwup that was.) That is why the builds I've posted have either been 15/14/14/14/10/8 or 16/15/14/10/10/8. That's about the most I can squeeze out of 28 points. True, ability focus should wait until 6th or 9th level. Especially since the -4 curse kicks in at 7th. Alternatively, I could invest in a cloak of charisma. Or a wand of Eagle's Splendor. (If I get access.) It's vanilla, but Improved Precise Shot and Improved Rapid Shot would be great "capstones" at levels 12 and 15. (Or other, newer archery feats.) I don't think a Crossbow would be worth it, unless I do take Crossbow Sniper. Which is another feat to squeeze in. A longbow could do just as much. Whirling Blade is pretty good for a hexblade. Better attack bonus than a pure caster, better weapons and if you can catch three enemies in a line, it outshines any melee full attack you could make. We've got a big pool of players/characters in my area, so only the smaller end of the year games and odd table makeups would be a problem. With human/10 intelligence the character would have 3 skill points per level. Enough to max out Bluff and Diplomacy, with the remaining points spread around a little. A few in Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft and knowledge Core never hurt much I know I'll be playing a one trick wonder. Hopefully those few tricks will end up being good together. There are some really good spells on the Hexblade List. Glitterdust, Slow, Protection From Arrows, Phantom Threat. The only major disadvantage is the low save DCs for attack spells. It's the fact that it can be dispelled that hurts it the most. But, yeah, for a fight or two a day I'll be able to add an extra threat to the mix. At 12th level and above. (Kvetch) And using Improved Familiar/Augment Familiar would have the same problem. It would be good for a little while, but only for a little while. Not to mention the chance of losing the familiar. And thank you for the advice. Hariman PS: I'm leaning more toward a ranged attacker now. Especially with the availability of special arrows. You could try to get access to Green Star Adept...does about the same thing as dragon disciple though. You can use Hexblade to qualify for Occult Slayer easily, and the arcane resistance compliments the magical defense ability. An elven hexblade 6 can qualify for bladesinger. A Fighter2/Hex4 can also go into arcane archer. You could also try to get access to Suel Arcanamach.
Mommy was an Orc 03-22-07, 12:05 AM	Yes, but everybody just throws out Dragon Disciple. I decided to see if any other prestige classes came up. I hear crickets when I listen for other prestige classes. Outcast Champion 2(or more) gives you a 'smite' against those who damage your party. Uses = Cha Mod/day. + to hit = Cha Mod/day. Damage = +1d6*level. Great for Power Attacking with... You do have to be a half-elf/orc(Races of Destiny)
Hariman 03-22-07, 01:43 AM	You could try to get access to Green Star Adept...does about the same thing as dragon disciple though. You can use Hexblade to qualify for Occult Slayer easily, and the arcane resistance compliments the magical defense ability. An elven hexblade 6 can qualify for bladesinger. A Fighter2/Hex4 can also go into arcane archer. You could also try to get access to Suel Arcanamach. Gah, overload! Very interesting possibilities here. Bladesinger has come nice synergy, and Arcane Archer can save a character money. I think most have the problem of reducing spellcasting. Outcast Champion 2(or more) gives you a 'smite' against those who damage your party. Uses = Cha Mod/day. + to hit = Cha Mod/day. Damage = +1d6*level. Great for Power Attacking with... You do have to be a half-elf/orc(Races of Destiny) Sharing Desperate Fury while the party barbarian power attacker is raging = extra pain. Outcast Champion is something that I would add on to the end of a full 10 level Dragon Disciple using the High Level Option. Extra Pluses to attack and damage never hurt.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-22-07, 05:04 AM	Straight up charger? Might work. LN Human Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14 1: Hexblade 1 - Power Attack, Battle Caster 2: Knight 1- 3: Knight 2 - Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack 4: Hexblade 2 - 5: Hexblade 3 - 6: Hexblade 4 - Spirited Charge 7: Hexblade 5 - Hexblade Bonus Feat 8: Mindbender 1 - Telepathy 9: Hexblade 6 - Improved Familiar, gain Hippogriff 10: Hexblade 7 - 11: Spellsword 1 - Ignore Spell Failure 10% 12: Hexblade 8 - Ability Focus: Curse 13: Hexblade 9 - Curse 3/day 14: Spellsword 2 - Insert Cool Fighter Feat Here 15: Spellsword 3 - Ignore Spell Failure 15%, Insert Cool Feat Here BAB +14, Base Fort +8, Base Reflex +4, Base Will +14, You might want to switch Battle Caster and Ability Focus, but you'll drop your AC by 1 or 4 if you can get mithril full plate. You can bump everything down a level by taking 1 level in fighter instead of 2 levels in knight, but I thought the knight abilities went well with Hexblade. Personally I'd take a third level in knight for the Bulwark of Defense, but was under the impression you wanted to get to third level spells quickly. The mindbender loses you a BAB, but bumps your saves and gives telepathy, which will be useful with diplomacy. Max out diplomacy and ride; throw skill points into the mindbender prereqs. You might run into some with the interpretation that Improved Familiar is based on caster level, not levels in arcane spellcasting classes, which is how I interpret it, given the FAQ ruling on on spellcaster level prereqs. You can either accept that you might not always be able to use your hippogriff (use mount spell) or you can sub in Practiced Spellcaster for Battle Caster (I'd do the former). A belt of many pockets will be expensive, but will allow you to bring your familiar anywhere. Round 1 - take out familiar as move action, mount as free action, cast spell (mirror image, hound of doom) as standard action. Round 2 - charge. Early on grab a buckler, upgrade to mithril when you get a chance. The first level in spellsword will allow you to get an animated mithril heavy shield. I'm not fond of the hexblade, but this is what I'd use if I were excited about it.
TWG_Prometheus 03-22-07, 09:02 AM	Just wanted to pop in one more time because I had a bit of concern about the way subiconic was being used in some posts earlier. Holding up the 'iconic' characters as a basis for judging power is just fine, and without a great deal of care, Hexblades fall easily below that line, but let's make sure that we are cautious about what an 'iconic' character really is. This is particularly true because one general judgment about Living Greyhawk characters that people make is that their power level should be at least iconic, so keeping good track of what that label means is important. Iconic is Jozan or Mialee. They're not built all that well. They're not multiclassed, and they're not horrifically powerful. But they're useful and they'd serve their purpose if dropped into a party. They're baseline and that's why they're helpful to use as a measuring stick. There is no such thing as an iconic Fighter/Barbarian or Ranger/Fighter to compare a Hexblade to. There is an iconic Fighter (two of them) and there could be an iconic Barbarian, but there's no mix of the two. Iconic does not mean a typical build you see on these boards. Such builds tend to go way above the level of an iconic character. In my opinion a pure Hexblade can easily go above the level of an actual iconic character and avoid the label of sub-iconic. It is a build that can easily go below that mark as well, however, so extra caution is warranted.
Hariman 03-22-07, 08:44 PM	Just wanted to pop in one more time because I had a bit of concern about the way subiconic was being used in some posts earlier. Holding up the 'iconic' characters as a basis for judging power is just fine, and without a great deal of care, Hexblades fall easily below that line, but let's make sure that we are cautious about what an 'iconic' character really is. This is particularly true because one general judgment about Living Greyhawk characters that people make is that their power level should be at least iconic, so keeping good track of what that label means is important. Iconic is Jozan or Mialee. They're not built all that well. They're not multiclassed, and they're not horrifically powerful. But they're useful and they'd serve their purpose if dropped into a party. They're baseline and that's why they're helpful to use as a measuring stick. There is no such thing as an iconic Fighter/Barbarian or Ranger/Fighter to compare a Hexblade to. There is an iconic Fighter (two of them) and there could be an iconic Barbarian, but there's no mix of the two. Iconic does not mean a typical build you see on these boards. Such builds tend to go way above the level of an iconic character. In my opinion a pure Hexblade can easily go above the level of an actual iconic character and avoid the label of sub-iconic. It is a build that can easily go below that mark as well, however, so extra caution is warranted. So, the big thing I have to do is match the power level of a single classed character. Like a Ranger, paladin, fighter, or bard. I think the keys to staying effective will rely more on my preparation/skill as a player than the strength or weakness of the build itself. I once saw a Barbarian1/Fighter1/Rogue1/Ranger1 be a great tank and be as good a trapfinder as my rogue wizard. An when he raged he did good damage at the cost of his AC. High risk melee or limited capability ranged? Not an easy choice. cycloptic_squirrel: Charger or Spring Attacker builds are something that I considered, but they aren't spectacularly interesting. I'll have to ask around about Improved Familiar to make sure that I can use it without practiced spellcaster (Which does have it's uses for a Hexblade.) The bad news is that "Mount" doesn't work in battle, as the spell says nothing about the horse being trained for battle.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-23-07, 12:55 AM	The bad news is that "Mount" doesn't work in battle, as the spell says nothing about the horse being trained for battle. Good point. I just kind of assumed "willingly and well" included combat, but I might be in the minority on this position. Riding dog and potion of reduce? Eh, maybe just making sure the familiar is accepted would be the best plan of action if you decide to go this route. As far as interesting, I'd agree, I just thought that power attacking full on a charge might bethe best way to use your good BAB get keep you out of the frying pan. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.
Hariman 03-25-07, 02:08 AM	I just wanted to state that I've gone with a ranged build. It's worked out pretty well in the Intro Mod that I played Saturday. If only by a lucky x3 24 damage critical hit on an enemy with DR/5, Fast Healing and 16 HP. Which was the only hit the party landed on that thing. Plus a few other attacks went home. Talos will probably never be a major standout in the party. But he'll usually be able to add something during a fight. Oh, his first, so far his only, Curse, was successful. I hope that's a sign of things to come.
JBeauMI 03-25-07, 09:49 PM	Oh, his first, so far his only, Curse, was successful. I hope that's a sign of things to come. Whoo, Good Karma, Dude ... or its opposite?
Hariman 03-26-07, 12:53 AM	Whoo, Good Karma, Dude ... or its opposite? I'm hoping for good. It's better than the other Hexblade in the area. NONE of his curses have worked. Heck, an enemy gained his curse as a special ability (long story short, it was a cheap copy of him) and SUCCESSFULLY cursed him. Talk about irony. Thank you everyone, for your advice. It did help me make my choice.